Poll: Do you believe in a higher power?
- Thread starter Easykill
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Personally I think that religion was invented to control the masses. I mean seriously Jesus loves you and because of that great love he will send you to hell to be tortured for all eternity. I find that beiliving in God is like trying to believe in Santa you want it to be true but you know it isn't, or as Carl Sagan said "It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion however satisfying and reassuring."
PS God if your up there please smite me down now if you truely love me.
PS God if your up there please smite me down now if you truely love me.
I used to be an atheist but then came to the conclusion that atheism contains something of a contradiction, it goes a little bit like this: If you are an atheist you are essentially denying the possibility of any form of higher power. Since there is a huge amount we do not understand about the universe, for example if you work backwards in time towards the big bang there is a certain point (tiny fractions of a second) beyond which modern physics breaks down and we can't explain everything. By completely rejecting a higher power you are making a bit of a jump and assuming some knowledge which we just don't have. That said it seems incredibly unlikely but you have to at least allow for the possibility. I am an atheist in that I reject all the current religions that humanity currently follows. So I would say I am 95% atheist, 5% agnostic.
is there an atheist group or "church" persay because usually atheist are informed, smart, and care more than people who actually have a religion that tell them to, or is there a nation that only allows atheists and agnostics
moose I agree what was before the big bang? I have that 5% still wanting to believe?
moose I agree what was before the big bang? I have that 5% still wanting to believe?
I'm agnostic. I simply do not have enough information to make a decision on this matter. I doubt I even have the hardware to process this correctly. I've received hints and clues both for and against the existence of the supernatural (I like that term far more than 'higher power', as I find it equally likely that an afterlife system exists with no god as the more commonly believed alternative. That is, ?%.). Nothing definite, nothing absolute. In any case, the mystery will be resolved for me - for all of us - sooner than we would probably like. Why waste the time, the effort, the brainspace and the stress worrying about the question when the answer is inevitable?
There is always the argument that your actions in this life affect your position in the next, but then again, we are mutable creatures, and no absolute station or solution is ever going to be sufficient, for anyone, especially when we're dead and presumably looking at eternity. Furthermore, any deity that carts me off to eternal suffering because I didn't follow their extremely dodgily communicated instructions in life (or worse, disagreed with them) is a prick and I don't want to hang out with them anyway.
There is always the argument that your actions in this life affect your position in the next, but then again, we are mutable creatures, and no absolute station or solution is ever going to be sufficient, for anyone, especially when we're dead and presumably looking at eternity. Furthermore, any deity that carts me off to eternal suffering because I didn't follow their extremely dodgily communicated instructions in life (or worse, disagreed with them) is a prick and I don't want to hang out with them anyway.
it's probably because you are still in high school. most religious people I know are just as intelligent as I, and I am an atheist. religion seems to have little effect on intelligence unless you live in an area where evangelical TV is popular. I really, really have a problem with those guys, capitalising on other people's beliefs should be illegal in my eyes.defcon 1 said:
Witness Richard Dawkins, who stops shooting himself in the foot only long enough to reload. Truly a classic case of self-defeating behaviour and complete inability to recognise same. It's not that his logic is busted; no, it's at least as valid as that used by theists. It's the presentation that's the problem, which makes buggery by porcupine preferable to conceding any validity to his arrogance and causes the very people he's (obstensibly) trying to convince to instead retrench.Saskwach said:
Jerkitude is a human constant, crossing cultures and faiths (or lack thereof) around the planet. Anybody arguing that the presence or absence of faith makes much of a difference in that has a very tough row to hoe.
-- Steve
I read as much of this as I could without going cross-eyed, and I couldn't stop giggling whenever someone talks about faith as a good thing, because faith in itself is the ultimate self-deception, doublethink at its finest.
You have complete and utter belief in something, NOT because of evidence. NOT because there's any proof. NOT because there's any reason to believe it, but because...well, no reason really.
If I believed the world was made out of, say, cheese, you'd call me insane.
Then I'd explain that I've got a BOOK! The book of cheese. My book says two things. A: Everything in this book is automatically correct and if you disagree, you're a deuchebag. B: Everything is made out of cheese.
But you cannot SEE the cheese, FEEL the cheese, SMELL or HEAR or TASTE the cheese! You have to....BELIEVE in the CHEESE to UNDERSTAND THE GLORY OF THE CHEESE!
Good fuck, would the men in white coats be running to get me to the lovely room with the soft walls, or what? But replace "Cheese" with "My invisible benelovent omnipotent omniscent friend" (which in our current world are impossible traits to have all at once, mind you, but that's irrelevant) and "The book of cheese" with "The Bible", "The Koran" or whatever other words some jackass put down, but because they did it a long time ago, they HAVE to be automatically right...
And suddenly, it's A-OK.
There is only really one thing I believe christians have entirely right. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. When you're dead, you're fucking dead. Anything else presumes the existance of a "soul", which is bogus thinking because it's the ultimate in wishfulness.
I understand why some people need the crutch of religion and higher powers, really I do. I almost wish I was one of them sometimes.
How grand wouldn't it be to be constantly shrouded in a thick, warm blanket of self-deception and imagined happiness at your imaginary nothing friend loving you? Doesn't it make you wanna be a kid again, when as long as you had a nightlight on and your teddy by your side, NOTHING in the whole wide world was a problem?
That said, I don't hate religious people. I find them a bit scary at times, but at the very core I suppose it's okay. Fear causes people to do silly things. Fear of nothing is the core of religion. Nobody wants to disappear, nobody wants to, at one point or other, become meaningless to everything and everyone. Sadly, that's how it is. And that scares the shit out of people.
So how much nicer isn't it to believe that if you just follow these ten easy steps, EVERYTHING will work out JUST fine and you'll be rewarded eternally?
Whatever, it's not like anyone will change anyone elses opinions on here. People who believe in god have a fundamentally...flawed is a harsh word, so I'll say DIFFERENT view of events.
If 'God' has ever done anything to mankind, ever ever ever, it must've been negative.
Let's say 'God' saves, say...an infant in a bus crash. No other survivors.
Intelligent people will see: "Oh man that's a horrible accident, how lucky the child survived"
Religious people will see: "God saved the infant!"
To which intelligent people answer: "...so you're saying god killed everyone else on that bus for no reason whatsoever? What an asshole!"
To which religious people counter: "No he's not. He loves us and only punishes us for granting us free will because of it."
I've said it once, I'll say it again...
God, if he exists, is like an extremely nasty parent. He puts his child on a chair and says "Go ahead! Do exactly whatever you want! But I'd sorta prefer if you didn't step outside the front door into a world of infinite possibility."
Then he plants a landmine outside the front door.
God is one sick, sick fucker. Anyone who forces eternal torture on his closest ally because that ally wanted to use their infinite powers to aid humans instead of torture them is... Disgusting. Nothing short of disgusting.
And who would give someone free will, only to punish everything they do that's not exactly what you want? Aside humans playing The Sims, that is... ("WHAT?! HOW DARE YOU EAT MAC AND CHEESE! I WANTED YOU TO EAT PIZZA! That's it, I'm putting you in a room with no doors out until you pass out, then I'm going to electrocute you, make you alien pregnant, kill your child in a fire and then finally DROWN you! That'll teach you to eat mac and cheese!"), and that's STILL much more benelovent than God. At least The Sims player eventually end the suffering of the poor sims that, really, didn't do anything wrong.
....Okay, I've vented my heart out about this subject now. That will be all.
PS. I don't hate religious people. And I'm well aware I came off as smug here, but frankly I couldn't care less. I had to spend a bit too long talking to some jackasses at my front door that felt its okay for them to push their imagination onto me as if it were true and I'm going to burn because I don't agree with them. If you feel PERSONALLY offended by what I said, chill out and go read your pretty little bible.
You have complete and utter belief in something, NOT because of evidence. NOT because there's any proof. NOT because there's any reason to believe it, but because...well, no reason really.
If I believed the world was made out of, say, cheese, you'd call me insane.
Then I'd explain that I've got a BOOK! The book of cheese. My book says two things. A: Everything in this book is automatically correct and if you disagree, you're a deuchebag. B: Everything is made out of cheese.
But you cannot SEE the cheese, FEEL the cheese, SMELL or HEAR or TASTE the cheese! You have to....BELIEVE in the CHEESE to UNDERSTAND THE GLORY OF THE CHEESE!
Good fuck, would the men in white coats be running to get me to the lovely room with the soft walls, or what? But replace "Cheese" with "My invisible benelovent omnipotent omniscent friend" (which in our current world are impossible traits to have all at once, mind you, but that's irrelevant) and "The book of cheese" with "The Bible", "The Koran" or whatever other words some jackass put down, but because they did it a long time ago, they HAVE to be automatically right...
And suddenly, it's A-OK.
There is only really one thing I believe christians have entirely right. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. When you're dead, you're fucking dead. Anything else presumes the existance of a "soul", which is bogus thinking because it's the ultimate in wishfulness.
I understand why some people need the crutch of religion and higher powers, really I do. I almost wish I was one of them sometimes.
How grand wouldn't it be to be constantly shrouded in a thick, warm blanket of self-deception and imagined happiness at your imaginary nothing friend loving you? Doesn't it make you wanna be a kid again, when as long as you had a nightlight on and your teddy by your side, NOTHING in the whole wide world was a problem?
That said, I don't hate religious people. I find them a bit scary at times, but at the very core I suppose it's okay. Fear causes people to do silly things. Fear of nothing is the core of religion. Nobody wants to disappear, nobody wants to, at one point or other, become meaningless to everything and everyone. Sadly, that's how it is. And that scares the shit out of people.
So how much nicer isn't it to believe that if you just follow these ten easy steps, EVERYTHING will work out JUST fine and you'll be rewarded eternally?
Whatever, it's not like anyone will change anyone elses opinions on here. People who believe in god have a fundamentally...flawed is a harsh word, so I'll say DIFFERENT view of events.
If 'God' has ever done anything to mankind, ever ever ever, it must've been negative.
Let's say 'God' saves, say...an infant in a bus crash. No other survivors.
Intelligent people will see: "Oh man that's a horrible accident, how lucky the child survived"
Religious people will see: "God saved the infant!"
To which intelligent people answer: "...so you're saying god killed everyone else on that bus for no reason whatsoever? What an asshole!"
To which religious people counter: "No he's not. He loves us and only punishes us for granting us free will because of it."
I've said it once, I'll say it again...
God, if he exists, is like an extremely nasty parent. He puts his child on a chair and says "Go ahead! Do exactly whatever you want! But I'd sorta prefer if you didn't step outside the front door into a world of infinite possibility."
Then he plants a landmine outside the front door.
God is one sick, sick fucker. Anyone who forces eternal torture on his closest ally because that ally wanted to use their infinite powers to aid humans instead of torture them is... Disgusting. Nothing short of disgusting.
And who would give someone free will, only to punish everything they do that's not exactly what you want? Aside humans playing The Sims, that is... ("WHAT?! HOW DARE YOU EAT MAC AND CHEESE! I WANTED YOU TO EAT PIZZA! That's it, I'm putting you in a room with no doors out until you pass out, then I'm going to electrocute you, make you alien pregnant, kill your child in a fire and then finally DROWN you! That'll teach you to eat mac and cheese!"), and that's STILL much more benelovent than God. At least The Sims player eventually end the suffering of the poor sims that, really, didn't do anything wrong.
....Okay, I've vented my heart out about this subject now. That will be all.
PS. I don't hate religious people. And I'm well aware I came off as smug here, but frankly I couldn't care less. I had to spend a bit too long talking to some jackasses at my front door that felt its okay for them to push their imagination onto me as if it were true and I'm going to burn because I don't agree with them. If you feel PERSONALLY offended by what I said, chill out and go read your pretty little bible.
If the universe is infinite then anything and everything that is possible will somewhere appear.
In fact everything that is impossible to us, must exist also in an infinite universe, so yes, there are not one but an infinite number of higher powers than us, plus an infinite number higher than them, etc,etc,etc.
As for the poll. I dont care
In fact everything that is impossible to us, must exist also in an infinite universe, so yes, there are not one but an infinite number of higher powers than us, plus an infinite number higher than them, etc,etc,etc.
As for the poll. I dont care
Methinks high level physics is practically religion. They haven't the foggiest what they're talking about I tell you, they just make it up.Joe said:
To quote Bill Bailey:
"Saddle-shaped?!"
Not any more. But if you're happy with your faith, I don't recommend giving it up. (I'm not any happier for it.) I was never very evangelistic to start with and I'm certainly not going to start pushing atheism on everyone else.
