Poll: Do You Believe In Karma?

[Nouw]

Yes I do believe in cause and effect. Karma, eh, not so much. Then again, maybe Hitler was reincarnated as a tape-worm or something. Who knows.

Tape worms have pretty sheltered lives

A battery hen then? Maybe factory salmon.

By extension, though, those people mistreating reincarnated Hitler and being cruel to animals, and have something nasty happen to them in their next life. Presumably Hitler's victims had done something in a previous life to deserve what he did.

Yeah, not a fan of that way of thinking.

Don't worry, I'm not taking this reincarnation thing seriously. Have a '' for good measure.

 

[Yopaz]

To be good only because you either:
A) You think there's a nice afterlife waiting for you.
B) You think being good now will help you later.
C) You think there's a bad place after you die if you're bad.
D) You think being bad now will hurt you later.
E) etc.

All seem rather sad and pathetic, even frightening, to me.

I do good things not for the carrot, but because I want to.
Sure, a legal style that will toss my ass in jail or fine me if I do something bad helps...

All too true, all too true. Doing something nice simply to be rewarded for it isn't really being nice at all. I'd almost assume this was the reasoning quite a few sociopaths have. I don't believe in karma, I hope things will work out for us and I generally do nice things. Why do I do good things despite not believing there are any gods or any cosmic retribution? Because I want to, because that's how I was raised, because I have morals. I don't need a reward to do what I think is right.

Hoping something will happen is also completely unrelated to karma.

 

[Jacques Joseph]

Yes, I do. But as has been said, this needs to be followed by an explanation of what I think karma to be.

Definitely not some personified divine being dispensing rewards and punishments.
Neither necessarily the idea that people are nice/mean to you depending on your being nice/mean to them, as that doesn´t seem always seem to work when you look around you.
As a form of cosmic law keeping some sort of balance, yeah. But then again, even this is a bit more complicated, I think.

Spoiler: I think I´ll spoiler this as it's quite an exhaustive rant that may not make much sense or be interesting but what the heck...

First, you have to accept that concepts of good and bad may not be applicable here.

I don't believe in karma, but karma's a funny thing. I've got a friend who believes in it, or at least used to (it's been a couple of years since we discussed it), and I pointed out that unless she's got some way of determining what actions the Universe considers good and evil, she's basically just assuming that her view of what's good and what isn't is always the correct one. Which I'd say shows a bit of hubris.

Pretty much that. So it's not you are good, therefore good happens to you, as good isn't objectively an easily definable category, but more like the same type of thing you do, you'll probably get, the "type of thing" being of course, obviously vague, which necessarily means that some people will find my conception of karma problematic (unprovable, undisprovable and sort of all-encompassing). Fair enough. More could be said but that would be too long, plus it would require me to do some serious research etc., so I'll leave it at that.

Second, the question comes up of how it works with reincarnation. The concept of karma in this life doesn't seem to be really working, as evidenced all around most of the time and I have never really been fond of the classical idea of reincarnation and even less of its simplistic interpretation in the way of you're bad, therefore you'll be reincarnated as an earthworm (because obviously being an earthworm has to be some form of punishment, right?). My take on this is to release reincarnation from the limitations of time. We're already deep into metaphysics as is, talking souls and cosmic balance and we steadily accept that reincarnation isn't limited by space, so why should it be by time? According to that, you could reincarnate in the past and maybe even in the present. I mean it seems difficult to imagine and it stinks a bit of paradox, I give you that, but just think of the consequences: it would basically mean that every living being that has ever lived, lives or will live are all just reincarnations of one and the same soul... (maybe that soul is god?) Suddenly, also, the vague idea of reciprocity presented earlier gets kinda obvious: you reap what you sow because in some reincarnation you are the one who's suffering the consequences of your actions. The notion of individuality and personality gets dissolved somewhere along the way, but dissolving individuality is something Buddhism has always been quite keen on anyway.
Taken like that, karma just means that whatever happens, happens. And through that balance is kept and that's just how it should be. And that's fine with me.

 

[SmokingBomber465]

Take the asshole who threw a bottle of water at my car today...what am I gonna do?

I would like to bring up the thought--and don't take this as me attacking you, it is just an idea--that that guy throwing a bottle of water at your car is the "coming around" of karma back at you? Like the repayment for something you did?

If you believe in karma this would be logical--and that's the point where I decided karma wasn't real--it is just that bad things happen to people and good things happen to people--but there is no "justice".

 

[Quaxar]

No, history would say otherwise.
Hitler, Stalin, Khan, Mao.
All did REALLY horrid things, and were rather successful for long...long...periods of time.
Whole empires raped, pillaged, murdered, enslaved, tortured, and etc...other peoples; lasting for a long time.

Well, the Western version of Karma is pretty distorted and more of a shorthand for divine justice during the one earthly life.

In its Hinduistic origin karma is a force even beyond the gods, which is collected through thoughts, words, performed actions and instructed actions into a sort of eternal personal cosmic pool (sanchita). Since all collected karma of countless past lives is far too much only a certain amount (prarabdha) is ripe to be experienced in each incarnation.
So to a Hindu Hitler is simply an atman, the eternal self or soul, who has failed miserably at achieving the nullification of his sanchita (moksha) and thus won't achieve nirvana but stay in the circle of rebirth (samsara) to experience the bad karma collected in this incarnation over the next ones for all eternity or until moksha is reached.
Similarly, a honestly good person might still experience bad things for earlier incarnations but has nevertheless come closer to moksha and thus nirvana for their current life.

And in Buddhism karma, though important, is only one of 24 conditions for experiences in an incarnation, trying to circumvent the issue that for an atman with an enormous sanchita it would be extremely hard to effectively reduce it and come out of the incarnation with a net win.

And OT: No. But in its origin it's a very elegant concept.

As much as a I belief homeopathy to be real medicine, that is to say, none at all.

Ah, but the less you believe, the more powerful it gets!

 

[Scarim Coral]

Somewhat, I kind of believe in it but even then it doesn't happen straight away and I think it's foolish to wait for it to happen (assuming if it does happen in the first place).
E.g. I'm looking for a new job cos I'm fed up with my manager antic and if karma really is in the work, the last meeting with the head office last week should had either sack or transfer her to another store (which I was hoping for) but it didn't happen.

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

I'd like to believe Karma on a small, not universal scale.

If someone fucks me over with no remorse, it would give me ease of mind that the universe would do the same to them.

I'd like to believe that.

 

[Abomination]

I don't believe in Karma, but people who have wronged me find out how true it is soon enough.

Did I say "Karma"? I meant revenge.

 

[FoxKitsune]

I don't believe in the typical 'Karma', like the universe has a way of righting wrongs and rewarding rights, because that would imply that I believed in some god that was watching over us. If we assume there's an all-knowing force enacting karma, that HAS to be an intelligent consciousness, i.e. something we would attribute to godhood or some greater being.

Since I don't believe in a god, at least not one who would keep tabs on us and reward/condemn appropriately, no, I don't believe in Karma.

That said, I still don't think hoping is a pointless endeavor,because even without a cosmic being enacting justice, we as a society make a good effort to do so. That's why we have our laws and societal norms (weather you think they're right and justified or not.) I don't believe in karma. Some people get what they deserve and other's don't, but hoping for the best is never a pointless thing as long as it keeps a person going.

 

[Zhukov]

Hell no.

I mean, obviously being a dick can come back and bite you in the arse. If you go around treating people like crap then you might find yourself short on friends when you could really use some. On the flipside, being good to people may lead to them returning the favour. But that isn't karma, it's just cause and effect. I suppose that could be regarded as a kind of karma, but it's not what the OP describes.

I think a moment's glance at the world would disprove any notions of cosmic justice. Good things happen to shitty people. Utterly horrifying things happen to people who did nothing to deserve it. Crimes go unpunished all the time. Good deeds go unnoticed, unacknowledged and unrewarded. Obviously the opposites happen as well, but that just leaves us with a universal phenomenon of Shit Happens.

Don't get me wrong. It's a nice notion. I can see why one would want to believe in it. However, I can't help but see it as a belief born of helplessness. "Well, I can't make that scumbag get what he deserves, but don't worry, the universe will take care of it!"

 

[DSK-]

I've yet to see or experience any karma on the "positive" side of the scale, so I would definitely say no.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

My way of thinking is that, it's only punishment if you know that it's punishment and what it is you are being punished for. Otherwise, it's just happenstance.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

No. I used to, in the hopes that it would finally help me get over my OCD, generalised anxiety, and depression. But then, after I realised how naïve and superstitious that was and that it wasn?t helping me to get any better because people and my brain were still fucking me over, I fully cast away any spiritual or religious beliefs that may?ve still been lingering and became a nihilistic Atheist.

I do good things because I believe it?s the right thing to do, not because I want to buy myself a place in Heaven from a narcissistic deity. There have been bad people who have done bad things for so long, who never ?reap what they sow?, because they?re rich or powerful or a politician or even a combination of all those things. Whereas truly good people still get shat on by the people in power. That?s not balance. That?s not ?cosmic justice?. That?s just the random joke of existence.

 

[Evil Smurf]

I respect the fact people believe in karma, it requires faith, just like being a Christian. However.......

As much as a I belief homeopathy to be real medicine, that is to say, none at all.

Ah, but the less you believe, the more powerful it gets!

Don't even joke man, I'm having a shit day. My country is being run by a **** who hates people who are not white, rich men. My cousin missed a dinner with me and my computer is taking forever to back up.

I'm sorry if I snapped at you, I just can't handle bullshit.

I need a hug.

 

[Caiphus]

Snip

Now, now. In a thread about karma, it really wouldn't be right if we were to give you hugs after you snapped at someone.

Even though irony is delicious.

*hug*

 

[A.A.K]

Yea I do.
"everything has it's place" No matter how great or how horrific.
Yea, that includes Hitler, Mao and blah blah blah.

Anyone who assumes an 'order' of any kind doesn't exist simply because they can't understand it or fathom a notion of something better/greater than them, I consider hideously arrogant. I don't dislike you for it, that's just where I stand.

It's great that people can question themselves in self-reflection and come up with an intelligible understanding of themselves, (really is) but then when you question why the world 'is' and you can't come to an answer aside from 'other people are shit', they take upon themselves as simply being true-enough and discard the rest.
Seems flawed to me.

Though 'fair' as far as I'm concerned means 'someone wins/someone loses', instead of the usual argument of 'everybody gets '1''.

My philosophy is very heavily influenced by taoism.


and the common arguments I receive and my responses:

Spoiler

1. "So if you went back in time, you wouldn't kill/stop Hitler?"
- No.
"But death?"
- Death NEEDS to happen. Life is cyclic. Everything before, lead to everything now, which will lead to the next past/history.

2. "Everyone is equal. How can you say something/someone is better?"
- Because equality is circumstantial. Which means it doesn't exist. Which means it has to be a spiritual factor. Everyone's equal by right of being human, and you're only less of a person if you act like an animal (rape, unjust murder, etc etc)
If you're without legs, I'm superior because I have functional legs.
However, the physically disabled fellow could be well smarter, or more compassionate than I am. So he's superior.
I fight better than you. I'm superior. You can write moving poetry. You're superior. Etc etc.

3. "It's all well and good, but you can't apply that to your own life. No-one can!"
- Actually I can....and there's entire collectives of people all around the world who do. From monks/holy men of all faiths, to 'layman practitioners'.

4. "If you can't PROVE to me that a god/power/order/balance exists, then he/it doesn't; and you're an ignorant fool otherwise."
- Cool. No worries, I can't. I'm not so arrogant to think I can. You've got the freedom to believe whatever. I wish you peace and a good life; and watch me flip you off for applying my ideas through your perspective/lens.
I can't show you my idea, if you judge everything through your tint of opinion and 'facts'. Just as you couldn't convince me of vicious anti-theism, atheism and pure objectivity if I analyse your argument from a perspective of personal philosophy and experience.

 

[briankoontz]

Karma is not a Christian belief, since it's the equivalent of "eye for an eye" two wrongs make a right, while Christians believe in forgiveness as a means of escaping the cycle of retribution.

Something bad happened to you as a result of you doing something bad? Hey, that's just Karma!

But what if the "something bad" you did was merely the result of something else bad? And now what sort of Karma is going to take care of the wrong thing done to you as a result of the wrong thing you did which came from the wrong thing someone else did?

Forgiveness gets rid of all of this nonsense.

 

[Evil Smurf]

Snip

Now, now. In a thread about karma, it really wouldn't be right if we were to give you hugs after you snapped at someone.

Even though irony is delicious.

*hug*

I have it on a good word, that irony tastes like cake.

 

[Ashadowpie]

i dont wholly believe in Karma, i jokingly believe in it. the concept is common though, you do something bad, bad things will happen to you and vice versa. i have what i jokingly call " instant Karma" i've noticed in my life that almost every time i say something rude out loud or mentally i somehow manage to accidentally hurt myself. like accidentally smoking my elbow on a corner. fuck does that hurts by the way. its just coincidence but i call it "insta Karma"