Poll: Do you hate the used game market?

[Owyn_Merrilin]

Actually, games are different than almost every other manufactured good.

Activision owns Call of Duty: Black Ops. If you walk into a store and buy a copy, Activision still owns Call of Duty: Black Ops. You own a copy of it. The reason that the store is allowed to sell you that copy, while Activision still owns the game itself, is because they're licenced distributors of the game. Unless you enter into a formal legal agreement with Activision, you're not a licenced distributor, ergo have no legal right to sell copies of things owned by Activision. You're not buying the game, you're paying for the right to access it.

Not being able to sell things you don't own, startling concept I know but bear with me.

When you buy a car, or a house, or anything else like that, you're not paying for access to it, you're buying it. If you buy a car, you own it, and have the legal right to sell it. If you buy a house, you own it, and have the legal right to sell it. When you "buy" a video game, however, you don't own it. You own a disc that's used to access the video game. You can certainly sell the disc if you manage to take the game off of it (why you would want to do this, I have no idea) but you can't sell the game itself because you don't own it.

Wow... just wow. Do you realize how demonstrably untrue what you just wrote is? If a sliver of what you claim was true companies like Gamestop would simply not exist. Furthermore, sites like eBay and Craigslist would not be legally allowed to accept listings for used games.

If what you were saying were true, which obviously it's not, then the same would have to hold true for movies, and music, and books. I got news for you all of those are bought and sold secondhand on a massive scale daily and legally.

Now you and the video game companies might want to think that is how things are but anyone with even the smallest amount of sense knows that what you are saying simply isn't the case. Do you think for a minute if selling games secondhand was illegal companies wouldn't step in to stop it? Of course they would. However, it's perfectly legal and there is bugger all they can do about it.

I agree that the game company holds the rights the actual IP but don't have ANY say in what I do with the actual copy of the game I bought and paid for. I do in fact own that. I'm not allowed to make my own copies and sell those but as far as the copy I paid for goes, I have full and total control over that individual copy and what I choose to do with it is none of their concern.

Bottom line is that video games are NOT special anymore than books or couches or movies or cars, etc are special. They should and do have to follow the same rules when it comes to a secondhand market. People like you and the video game industry as a whole need to accept that. It's that kind of mentality that caused the first collapse of the gaming industry and it's that kind of mentality that will cause the next one if it keeps up.

Not only is it legal, it's a guaranteed consumer right, called the right of first sale. Basically, if you buy something, it's yours to do with as you please. Sell it, give it away, heck, it's even legal to rent it out, the warnings at the beginning of every DVD to the contrary. The fact of the matter is, this "license" crap that the game companies want you to swallow is completely unnecessary to keep people from making copies of their games. Even if there was no such thing as a licensing agreement, the person who bought the game would own that copy, but have no legal right to make new copies -- otherwise known as copyright.

OT: Yes, I unabashedly buy used. Unlike what appears to be the majority of this site, I'm a poor college kid, not a spoiled rich teenager who's never worked a day in his life. I cannot afford $60 for a videogame; that's half a textbook right there, not to mention close to two weeks worth of good quality food, six DVDs, 12+ used books, or enough for pretty solid MP3 player. Why on earth would I spend that much on a single piece of media? If the games industry would drop prices to $20 or less on new games that have been out for a while, I would buy new more often. As it stands, it's used games and steam sales for me.

 

[MartialArc]

People keep throwing the used car sales about to compare used game sales to. But even though the car manufacturer isn't getting money from used sales (apart from certified dealerships, franchised garages, etc) they do still get to sell parts to keep those used cars running.

Project $10 is effectively adding this ability for the games makers to make a lil extra on the games, like the car manufacturers can make with replacement parts.

Used sales in itself isn't a problem, or at least it didn't used to be. People used to love collecting all their games, now their is more of a "disposable" culture where people get something, play it, and exhange it in for osmething else, I've never traded a game in, and rarely buy used, I like my collection of games on my shelf! The major issue with this used sales thing is that its now become industrialised by all these game shops, meaning they're trading games on a huge scale that you didn't use to get, before, you had to trade games in a market or the like :/

You must not own a car. Unless you like the feeling of getting raped, you are probably buying your parts at autozone or napa or something. These 3rd parties teardown old cars and reverse engineer components, so they can make their own and sell them. So all the stuff your buying to keep your car running, except for a very very few parts, are probably feeding companies like napa and not car manufacturers.

To boot, if they want to, they can sell access to servers, DLC, etc. Definitely ways for a company to profit off a game they have already sold.

 

[Shellsh0cker]

Buying and selling used games isn't a bad thing, but the industry model is broken. The way it works now, Gamestop (or whoever) keeps 100% of the profit from used game sales, which isn't the way it should be. The used car industry is set up with this in mind. We don't need to stop buying and selling used games, we need a paradigm overhaul. Unfortunately, that's basically impossible, given the momentum Gamestop has built up for their business model.

Until something crazy happens, I'll continue to buy games new unless I can only find them used.

Car industry is setup with this in mind..... how? Used car lots don't pay manufactuers. Private sellers don't pay manufactuers. Certified pre-owned exists because the manufacturers started it, decided they could add some service to recoup on used sales. Used car lots and private sellers keep 100% of the profits. Garage salers keep 100% of the profits. Ebay sellers keep 100% of the profits. Nobody, anywhere, ever, for anything, pays manufactuers for something they sell second hand. Why are games supposed to be different.

Are you suggesting anytime someone sells something used the originator of that product be sent a portion? You should have to send GM a few hundred bucks when you buy a used car?

There are probably some reasons that model hasn't popped up yet in any of the plethora of industries out there.

Alright, I'll admit I had no idea what I was talking about with regards to the used car industry. That'll teach me to blithely say things I have no factual basis for. However, the rest of what I said is still valid. To the developer, we might as well be pirating if we buy used, because they see no profit either way.

 

[octafish]

Only three out of ten games make their development money back. Is it any wonder publishers are against the second hand market? Is it any wonder devolpers are so risk adverse? It's moot for me anyway as I don't own a console.

 

[Koroviev]

No, not at all. Video games are not a special commodity. If the video game industry has such a difficult time selling new games that they need to attack the used market, then perhaps the current price point is too high. I buy books and movies new and used, and the same goes for video games. I have no desire to spend more money than I have to unless there is some incentive to do so (i.e. game will become scarce (see: Atlus titles), highly anticipated, etc.). I will shell out the extra cash early for a game I expect to be great (Catherine, The Last Guardian, Mass Effect 3, etc.). Most games need not apply.

 

[fletch_talon]

Does anyone have an explanation for why video games should be treated differently than every other commodity in existance basically?

Because almost every other commodity in existence is more likely to wear and depreciate in value.
Read a book once, and it will show signs of wear no matter how careful you are. Get any decent use out of a piece of furniture and it will have dents, marks and general wear. Cars are no different either.

A game disk can be used, played through/completed once (even dozens of times if you're the slightest bit careful) and still look brand new. So unless you actively want to support the game's developer you have no incentive to buy a new game after its initial release.

I'm personally fine with the used games market, there's nothing illegal or immoral about it. However I also won't complain when things like "Project $10" come in and ensure that if you buy second hand, you are getting the inferior product.

 

[Nomanslander]

Games are freakin expensive as it is, and the only reason the game industry doesn't like it is because they ain't getting any cut from the ridiculous amount of money made. Anyways, just watch how in two years or so all games will only offer half of it's content, and the other half through first customer sign ins.

 

[CD-R]

My problem is when there's only like a five dollar difference between a new and used game. Seriously five dollars isn't even worth it. I thought the whole project ten dollar thing (which I don't have a problem with if they give you good stuff) would start driving down the price of used games. Sadly Gamestop still hasn't taken the hint since when Dragon Age Origins was out they still had the nerve to charge fifty-five dollars for a used copy.

Besides buying and selling your games to Gamestop is a ripoff anyway.

 

[joemegson94]

Preowned games are great. Many games nowadays are sold for far too much money, and it's not like game developers can't usually turn big profits on regular game sales alone. I can hardly afford to fork out £30-£50 each time I want to buy a new game, so pre-owned games are really useful.

 

[babinro]

I dislike the used game market, but it is entirely legal. I believe game developers deserve a part of used game sales and as such, I do not object to the growing online payment system.

Despite my feelings on the matter...I tend to buy console games used as finances are tight. Thanks to digital distribution, many PC games I purchase are new based on things like Steam sales.

 

[TehCookie]

I love the used market, since it lets me get the older games for dirt cheap which are normally unavailable in stores. If I know I'm going to like a current game I buy new to support the developer (though I refuse to buy a game over $30, so I have to wait a few years after release).

 

[neppakyo]

I wish you could still trade in PC games.. I'd of unloaded my DA2 copy weeks ago.

But I have no problems with it. Sometimes you see a pre-used title you meant to get a couple years ago and see it for sale, buying it for cheap.

 

[veloper]

I certainly think much worse of a game pirater than I do of a used-game buyer. I'm mostly fine with the latter. But eventually, I really do hope for them to realize the impact they make; because as mean as it sounds, their effects are just the same as piracy.

That is the biggest load of bullshit the game industry ever got people to buy.

The used game market helps the industry. It just doesn't help it as much as a new sale in place of a used sale, which is why they push for one over the other and try to guilt/force people into only buying new.

The vast majority of the time someone brings in a game for trade, they buy other games, a significant chunk of that money goes back into buying new games.

Even piracy helps the industry by your logic.
You save EVEN MORE money getting a copy for free and that money could go back into buying new games.

More typically though, the pirate and the used buyer both don't buy new.

I read that and was actually astounded someone's thought processes could bring them to that conclusion.

That's because you reasoned from the seller's pov, but forget there is a buyer, who is also a gamer.

Let's start really simple with a trade scenario and then compare what happen at a resale shop.

Trade: Mark and Julie don't go to gamestop, but trade game X for game Y. Compared to buying new copies for themselves they save 2*$60 = $120 in total. They could spend that money on games A and B.

Resale: Mark sells game X for $5, Julie buys it for $50. A total of $45 is removed from their collective pockets, that won't be spent on new games.

So trading is fine: you exchange something effectively worthless for some different worthless.
Buying used then is for dumbfucks who don't know how to pirate and it also takes money out of the system.

Piracy finally, has the same effect as trading 1:1. Money is saved on game X that could hypothetically be spent on game A.

If resales are good for the publishers as you claimed, then piracy logically is even better. Software piracy is neutral and resale is negative.

 

[Catalyst6]

While I would like to give money to devs, I must be practical. Games are expensive, after all!

I really only buy "new" games. I say "new" because, as most of my purchases are off of Steam because they host games for a long time, dropping the price steadily as time goes on. So, yes. I technically buy "new" games, but they're old new games.

Oh, I do play on console, but I use GameFly, which is glorified renting.

 

[mxfox408]

I get that people hate piracy here. And I understand why, it hurts developers, it is not fair, etc. However something I find odd is that from time to time you will see folks lump in the used market with piracy.

They will complain that it doesn't help benefit the developers and that makes it bad. But in life we resell many things. You wouldn't just let a car sit around doing nothing when buying a new one, generally anyway. You don't torch your house when you are done with it. You don't burn your books upon finishing them.

I always have felt that software companies are trying to play the field in such a way that they can treat their product as some kind of dual-existance.

You pirated a game?! Thats stealing, just as sure as if you held us at gunpoint. You bought the game? No no no, it is intellectual property, you did not buy it, we just lent it to you.

I see a one common explanation for the objection to the used market, that development is stupidly expensive. When you buy a car, they have to design that too. I would venture that the cost of bringing a roadway vehicle from concept to production eclipses that of your typical AAA game. Game companies get many many advantages here, namely they have only fixed costs (practically speaking, few more years and digital distribution will bring this close to literally speaking). Ford doesn't get to design a truck then crap out each copy for pennies, each unit has a cost associated with it above and beyond fixed costs.

Am I the only one who feels this attitude permeates these forums?

Does anyone have an explanation for why video games should be treated differently than every other commodity in existance basically?

Well EA implemented a $15 dollar charge for those who are activating a used copy of Mass Effect 2 so they cant call foul on that which i think is a good idea.

 

[Nebraskaslim]

Used cars are not a good example. Seeing as you can barter with the retailer your trading in/selling your car to. This has to do with the type of car and the condition its in, kelly blue book is just a guideline. There is no blue book for games, if you want to trade you game in to gamestop you'll maybe get $5 for it regardless of what condition the disc is in or even which game it is. Selling it on ebay/craigslist you have more choice on price that would be like selling your car private sale. I for one would not like to see games go toward a car buisness model. If that happend you would get big name titles costing over $100, and the cheap games no one wants to play for around $50. So in the short but sweet version stop using used cars as an example of the same thing they are only similar in private sales.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I think the Game Industries biggest issue with used game sales is what GameStop will typically do is offer a used copy of the game to their customers as an alternative to buying the game new, and sometimes even go out of their way to sell the customer a used copy instead of the new copy. And the Developers/Publishers see no returns from the used game market.
They probably wouldn't mind so much if GameStop wouldn't go out of their way to sell the used games instead of the new games.

 

[TokenRupee]

I usually buy used. Not only because, like someone else said, that's the best way to find games no longer in print, but I'm cheap. Though I rationalize it like this: I was never going to buy said game new anyway. I was merely interested. And buying used has turned me onto several series and publishers, like the Phoenix Wright series and Bioware and Atlus, who I then buy new from whenever the next game comes out and I can afford it.

But most used games I get are never worth full price. Sure they're fun for a while, but nowhere near a new price. For example, games like Ninety-Nine Nights or The Force Unleashed 1 and 2 are fun and I'd pick them up at a budget price. But they should not be priced the same as high-quality games like Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Red Dead Redemption, Bioshock, etc. And that is why I'll wait for a price drop or just get it used.

 

[Omnific One]

I used to buy almost only used games because I had so little money. Now that I have a good PC, DD sales are amazing and cheaper than used for the 360.

Medal of Honor: $7.50
Crysis: $7.50
Bad Company 2: $4.95
Alpha Protocol: $4.95
Bioshock 2: $4.25

Those are just a couple recent ones.

However, I will buy a few ones new this year.