Poll: Do you like captain America?

[verdant monkai]

I realise that I may be stepping on thin ice here, being a non american and bringing captain America into question.

As a non American... captain America to me is just a rather in your face personification of American military might, who seems like he would offer his protection exclusively to U.S citizens. Whereas a character like Superman, who used to be a boring personification of truth justice and the American way, is now a global icon. Not of just an all American hero but also a character who is just an all round pure hero, who would not discriminate on things like where you live. I know C.A helps all nationalities of people in the comics, but he does by his design seem like he puts America above all else.

This may be just because I am not the target audience for C.A comics, and maybe for Americans the character fills you with pride, and a sense of patriotism. Its just that he seems to be an icon that exclusively caters to Americans and alienates everyone else.

I realise that he is not a particularly threatening character, and the shield he carries marks him as a defensive protector, rather than an aggressive over powering figure. Its just that now WWII is over, he seems like a piece of history rather than someone we should be focusing on in 2014.

I'm really sorry about the poll guys I have no idea how to fix it, despite editing in a No (American) option.
I realise I must sound like an annoying minor bad guy out of one of the marvel films (probably one of the old fat white guys in suits, who get shocked when they are proven wrong), and my rant may seem like hate for America, but it really isnt I love America. I've visited it a few times and I have always wanted to come back. And hey I'm not even a big fan of Marvels other shameless personification: Captain Britain.

Spoiler

So I was wondering if anyone still really likes this guy, there is an option for being an american citizen and liking C.A. That's not because I dont value your opinion, its just that I'd just like to see what the ratio looks like.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Yeah, I'm a brit and I quite like him (bear in mind my only real exposure is the films though). He's just an honest, decent guy and compared to how arrogant Thor and Iron Man are, it's pretty refreshing. In context of the film, he's not even that patriotic, he just wants to do the right thing and his country has made him a patriotic icon. I'm not sure if that was intentional to make him less 'America, fuck yeah!', but it works for me.

Also, I reckon chucking a shield at people is a totally badass way to kill them.

 

[FalloutJack]

Well, the thing about Cap is that he's suppose to represent alot of the good points of the country. He'd scoff at the corruption you see these days. The fact that he would have words about some of the things around here using that rare feat of being fair with people could very well endear him to even non-Americans.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

As a character he's likable, as a symbol I find him repulsive. Bottom line answer is I don't really care for him.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Yeah I liked him (I'm British) since the film portay him as the ideal superhero as a whole (moral wise) and he's still a good decent guy out of the few comicbooks I've read about him. He isn't as patriot as one would expect of him or am I'm not reading the right comics on him?

 

[Eamar]

I'm British, and I quite like him as a character due to the fairness and honesty that are at his core. I don't read his individual comics though.

That said, the whole idea of a character called "Captain America" outside of deliberate propaganda makes me roll my eyes. I did think the movie handled this well though.

Bottom line, he's decent, I don't mind him in an ensemble, but I don't seek out Captain America stuff and I've always felt a bit... distanced, I guess... from him, probably on account of me not being American. He's kind of the Avenger I'm most likely to forget about.

 

[Parasondox]

Yeah, I'm a brit and I quite like him (bear in mind my only real exposure is the films though). He's just an honest, decent guy and compared to how arrogant Thor and Iron Man are, it's pretty refreshing. In context of the film, he's not even that patriotic, he just wants to do the right thing and his country has made him a patriotic icon. I'm not sure if that was intentional to make him less 'America, fuck yeah!', but it works for me.

Also, I reckon chucking a shield at people is a totally badass way to kill them.

I total agree with this point. I like Captain America because he is honest, tactical and loyal. Something we don't see much of anymore in today's world. Even in, Captain America: The First Avenger, he was just a guy who wanted to do right by his country and allied forces against an enemy who wishes to suppress, divide and conquer. He was outweighed and out matched but had the smarts, initiative and drive before he even became the super solider. We already have the arrogant and the egotistical, the "bad boy, cool kids" kind of individuals portrayed today and nearly everyone seems to like. When he was asked about killing, he said he didn't want to kill and didn't even like bullets. He just wanted to stop the enemy. He really isn't the portrayal of today's United States and how it's viewed now which leads me on to another point below.

Well, the thing about Cap is that he's suppose to represent a lot of the good points of the country. He'd scoff at the corruption you see these days. The fact that he would have words about some of the things around here using that rare feat of being fair with people could very well endear him to even non-Americans.

I think that's where Captain America: The Winter Solider, will address that issue. The guy has been frozen for over half a century and the America he left behind is completely different to the one we have today and he has issues with that and tries to adjust. Even in the trailer he states, "I thought the punishment usually came after the crime" and "This isn't freedom, this is fear". Back then America would be seen as the heroes after WW2 but now seen as the enemy by many growing nations.

 

[Tono Makt]

NOTE: One huge caveat to this post: I'm not talking about Ultimate Universe Captain America here, just regular universe and Movies Cap. Ultimate Cap was... well. Pretty much what you describe, with a few other things tossed in to make him even less noble than that. A number of people had a problem with that take on Cap.

I think you might be misunderstanding Captain America - he doesn't represent what America is, he represents what America wants to be and many Americans think they are. But it's a constant theme in his books that not only is he not a representation of America, there has never been an America that he was a representation of. There was never a time when America was an upright, honest and selfless country. There was never a time when America stood up for the little guy against bullies because it was the right thing to do. There was never a time when America would stand up, at great cost to itself, for a principle when there was nothing to gain except the knowledge that they stood up for the principle. There was never a time when America was anything but a self-serving nation intent on helping itself first and not really caring if that hurt someone else. That's not a criticism of America - that's how Nations operate. That's what my country of Canada does. What Britain does. What China and Russia do. What every nation does.

Captain America does stand up for the weak, regardless of the cost to himself. He doesn't merely stand up for American interests and Americans - he stands up for anyone. He does stand for principles even when that means standing up to his own government. A running theme in Captain America comics is that Cap is regularly finding himself at odds with his own Government. Just look at the side he took on the Marvel Civil War storyline, where he literally lead a resistance against his own government due to the US government taking what he considered to be a wrong stand on one of his principles. It's not the first time, and judging from the trailer for the next movie, it's going to come into the movies as well. More than once Cap has stopped being Captain America due to the actions of the American government - he's no cheerleader for America as it is today, even if people think that he is because he's called "Captain America".

So all in all, Captain America isn't a symbol of the America of today in any way, shape or form. Cap is what Americans should aspire to be, to inspire Americans to be like Cap. It's impossible, of course - he's an Ideal, and Ideals are something to strive toward but never actually reach. But in striving to be like Cap the world would probably be a better place, for all nations. Does it fill Americans with pride? Maybe - but only if they don't look deeply into Captain America and their own actions compared to his example. I've got other ideas on this particular subject, but they really get into the realm of Religion and Politics so I'm going to leave them out of the Off Topic forum (Hint: It's not a flattering comparison)

There's more than a few quotes from Captain America comics that are good to illustrate this, but this is one of the latest ones from the Civil War storyline:

"Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right.

This nation was founded on one principle above all else: The requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world -- "No, YOU move."

 

[Neverhoodian]

U.S. citizen here:

My only experience with Captain America has been the recent films, but I've really enjoyed his character so far. Indeed, I'd say he's my favorite superhero in the Marvel movie universe. He's an honest to goodness nice guy with an admirable code of morality.

I disagree with the assertion that he's only invested in helping fellow Americans. The very reason why he wanted to join the fighting in World War II was that he wanted to stand up to the Nazi oppression of foreign nations. Given his humble origins and history of being kicked around prior to becoming a superhero, he knows what it's like to be the underdog. The way I see it, the Cap embodies the ideals of what America should be, not what the country actually is. If the trailer to the next movie is anything to go by, it appears he has serious issues about the direction the country has taken in recent decades:

Spoiler

I don't think a jingoistic uber-patriot would react with lines like "this isn't freedom, this is fear." If the Cap was a real person, I'd like to think he'd have a few choice words about policies like the treatment of "enemy combatants" and the NSA.

 

[FalloutJack]

Captain America: The Winter Solider

Sounds good to me. Because while yes we have done some good around here, let's just face it: We are the Timelords.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I like Captain America for the same reason others have listed: he's nice and a good person. The reason I enjoyed his film the most out of all the pre Avengers movies was because his film wasn't about him having this gift and abusing it, or spending the whole movie turning into a hero. He was a hero from the start. And when he gets his power, he still stays a hero. The part in the film where the scientist taps him on the chest "Don't forget what makes you you," is very touching to me. Too many heroes today are too dark, too moody, too anti-hero, too political, too anything. Captain America just goes, "This isn't right. It stops now," and does it. It's refreshing to see a hero who is still good a heart and has a good moral compass.

I'm a bit nervous that his new movie may change that about him, but the more I see, the more it looks like he's not going to let that happen. He's going to see what S.H.I.E.L.D wants him to be, and he's going to say, "No." I don't want Cap to turn into Batman.

 

[Zhukov]

Well, my eyes want to roll clean out of my head at his name and visual design.

However, from what little I understand, his actual character is more representative of the nice liberal side of America. Y'know, freedom and equality and generally being cool about stuff. Not the nasty, republican, gun-toting, let's-bomb-some-third-world-countries-and-fuck-the-poor side of America.

So guess he breaks about even in my view, leaning slightly positive.

 

[zegram33]

im really not a huge fan.
He's always seemed to me to be the least interesting of the marvel heroes, and the one who gets the most "plot armour" for no reason (he never gets shot in the places his mid-sized shield doesn't cover, etc)
I think its mainly that his series' always try and portray him as being the perfect human being, but the people who write him are just people, so he often comes across (to me at least)as being smug and self-righteous.

I guess that might be meant to be a pretty nifty critique of the worst parts of American culture as well as the best, but...that might be giving the writers a bit too much credit.

its not that I'd prefer some gritty antihero, but his theoretical "flaw" (he's ALWAYS good, even when that's just a terrible plan) often turns him into the living embodiment of "good is dumb"

I dunno, He just always rubs me the wrong way, and its worse in the avengers where he's compared to people so much more capable than him, but after some token conflict everyones kinda just like "yeh, he's the leader"

 

[Zak757]

As a Canadian who has several problems with the USA, I like Captain America when he isn't being ironic. As in, using Captain America to portray what America is, not what America should be. The fact that he was trying his hardest to become one of the best human being ever is what made the new Captain America movie great.

 

[Vivi22]

NOTE: One huge caveat to this post: I'm not talking about Ultimate Universe Captain America here, just regular universe and Movies Cap. Ultimate Cap was... well. Pretty much what you describe, with a few other things tossed in to make him even less noble than that. A number of people had a problem with that take on Cap.

I think you might be misunderstanding Captain America - he doesn't represent what America is, he represents what America wants to be and many Americans think they are. But it's a constant theme in his books that not only is he not a representation of America, there has never been an America that he was a representation of. There was never a time when America was an upright, honest and selfless country. There was never a time when America stood up for the little guy against bullies because it was the right thing to do. There was never a time when America would stand up, at great cost to itself, for a principle when there was nothing to gain except the knowledge that they stood up for the principle. There was never a time when America was anything but a self-serving nation intent on helping itself first and not really caring if that hurt someone else. That's not a criticism of America - that's how Nations operate. That's what my country of Canada does. What Britain does. What China and Russia do. What every nation does.

Captain America does stand up for the weak, regardless of the cost to himself. He doesn't merely stand up for American interests and Americans - he stands up for anyone. He does stand for principles even when that means standing up to his own government. A running theme in Captain America comics is that Cap is regularly finding himself at odds with his own Government. Just look at the side he took on the Marvel Civil War storyline, where he literally lead a resistance against his own government due to the US government taking what he considered to be a wrong stand on one of his principles. It's not the first time, and judging from the trailer for the next movie, it's going to come into the movies as well. More than once Cap has stopped being Captain America due to the actions of the American government - he's no cheerleader for America as it is today, even if people think that he is because he's called "Captain America".

So all in all, Captain America isn't a symbol of the America of today in any way, shape or form. Cap is what Americans should aspire to be, to inspire Americans to be like Cap. It's impossible, of course - he's an Ideal, and Ideals are something to strive toward but never actually reach. But in striving to be like Cap the world would probably be a better place, for all nations. Does it fill Americans with pride? Maybe - but only if they don't look deeply into Captain America and their own actions compared to his example. I've got other ideas on this particular subject, but they really get into the realm of Religion and Politics so I'm going to leave them out of the Off Topic forum (Hint: It's not a flattering comparison)

There's more than a few quotes from Captain America comics that are good to illustrate this, but this is one of the latest ones from the Civil War storyline:

"Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right.

This nation was founded on one principle above all else: The requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter the odds or the consequences. When the mob and the press and the whole world tell you to move, your job is to plant yourself like a tree beside the river of truth, and tell the whole world -- "No, YOU move."

Well stated and I agree with you completely. Speaking as a Canadian, I quite like Captain America in the comics and the movies. Perhaps once in the early days of comics he was more in line with how the OP views him, but that's not accurate anymore. People tend to look at the character and never look any deeper than the costume. That's missing the point of the character.

And I don't know if the typical American is filled with pride when they look at Captain America, but if they knew much about the ideals he typically represents and compared them to the present state of their country, they should definitely feel something, but I wouldn't call it pride.

 

[Blow_Pop]

As far as the movies go? Yes I do like him. As far as the comics? Not particularly. For the exact reason of him being very in your face military kind of guy. And I know the movies if they go on long enough will delve into that but for now I like them as they are. Of course I'm not a big fan of America in general and I, unfortunately, am an american.

 

[Sandernista]

As far as the movies go? Yes I do like him. As far as the comics? Not particularly. For the exact reason of him being very in your face military kind of guy. And I know the movies if they go on long enough will delve into that but for now I like them as they are. Of course I'm not a big fan of America in general and I, unfortunately, am an american.

Have you read much mainline Cap? The in your face military jingoist has always been Tony Stark, not Captain America.

 

[jackpipsam]

The movie was kinda cool I guess and the actor who plays him is fantastic.

But overall he's not a character I find much to invest in, it's just too much for me to handle.

 

[zehydra]

I'm American and never cared for him.

And then, I also don't care for superheroes anyway (except Batman, cause he doesn't have/use powers)

 

[StriderShinryu]

As a non-American, he's a super hero that I actually find myself enjoying quite a bit. I like the fact that he's not necessarily untouchable in terms of his powers, such as they are, and I also like that he's more of a faded ideal than a current reflection of the US. It gives him a built in storyline that most superheroes don't really have without forcing the more casual fan to dive into reams of backstory.