Poll: Do you like captain America?

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Me55enger

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verdant monkai said:
Me55enger said:
I fail to understand how that is representative of anything about Britain.
If you are talking about the lad in the flying pose... his name is captain Britain and his costume is a union jack. I dont see how you can miss the union jack part.
Either you're taking me too seriously or you're not taking me seriously enough. Seriously.

The mid-20th centuary perception of America might be enough for their modern super heroes, but even the externalised stereotype of England is in no way representative of that image, let alone the internal.

Thanks for assuming I'm blind, but the Union Jack part is simultaneously tenuous and unavoidable. And as a Briton, I see no connection between myself, my perception of what it is to be British, and... and that.
 

Ratty

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Me55enger said:
And as a Briton, I see no connection between myself, my perception of what it is to be British, and... and that.
What about Union Jack [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack_%28comics%29]? His costume is way, way cooler.

Though on a serious note I am kind of curious if we have any Canadian comic fans here who might have an opinion on Alpha Flight.
 
Dec 16, 2009
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Well there are so many versions of the guy, the main 3 being;
The 616 universe
The Ultimate universe
The Marvel Cinematic universe.

I'd say they are all throw backs to a better time, when men were gentlemen and tv and media wasn't so intuitive to people's lives wtc etc and this guy reminds you it wasn't always the way it is now. Which I think anyone, American or otherwise, can get behind from time to time.

I think the Ultimate CA is your one who puts American interests above all else.
616 gave up the title of CA when he lost faith in the government (I think, it was a while a go) but still went travelling around doing good deeds in a david Carradine style, under the name of Nomad, saying he had no nationality. Also, theres gay marriage in the 616 universe, pretty progressive stuff.
as for Cinematic CA, he went toe to toe with Loki when he was terrorising Germans in the Avengers.
 
Dec 16, 2009
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Olas said:
As an American, who will defend my country from haters, I don't really like him. It's not just his silly gettup and name, which is blatant and obtuse enough, but it's the functional stuff as well. His only powers are being really athletic, and his only weapon is a shield. Sure it may be one hell of a shield, but it's still just a shield. An ordinary guy with a handgun standing more than a few feet away should have the upper hand on him.
not sure if it's the 616 CA, but I think so, CA has such high reflexes due to the super soldier syrum, that he has an internal bullet time.
 

Elementary - Dear Watson

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I will admit... I don't care for him much. And it is totally because I am not American.

I don't find his character bad at all, however, they bang on about him being 'the finest tactician' all the time, but then there doesn't appear to be any evidence of it. Nick Fury seems to be the man with the master plan, and then during actual fights characters seem to be making their own decisions most of the time. In fact, a lot of the time he acts as a distraction so someone else can finnish the baddie off!

I do really like Captain Britain (and MI:13, ha, and that small part from Captain Midlands) though. I think it is shamelessly because of the quintessential Britishness of the characters (There is a great flashback in one of the MI:13 novels where they are all playing cricket!)

Maybe I need to give Capt America more of a chance, it's just I don't find him that interesting as a hero. He is too predictable and dull, and only seems to be ok when part of a group. I will stick to my favourites (The Punisher, Black Panther, Wolverine and The Darkness :p)
 

lunavixen

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I'm Australian but I don't really like him, I don't hate him though, I just vastly prefer other comic book heroes
 

Techno Squidgy

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I am unfortunately completely unable to like Captain America. Seeing anyone dressed in stars and bars, fictional or not, makes we want to vomit through my eyeballs. You know, when the union won your silly little civil war, they should have stolen the confederate flag. It just looks better.

As a character, he's alright. Kind of bland, but alright. Most of my experience is from the film, and he just... well, he didn't leave a lasting impression.
 

jklinders

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Pretty sure his original design was a vehicle for WWII propaganda. But that is like 70 years ago so it is really unfair to judge his character's evolution past that point.

As others have mentioned, this is a guy who represents an ideal of what people (not just American but why change his character name just over that quibble) should aspire to be. Fair, brave and free.

The design doesn't bother me much as a non American. But maybe I'm a purist who sees little reason to break what does not need to be fixed. Besides, to focus on his overly nationalistic design without mentioning *cough*Captian Canuck*cough*



would be slightly hypocritical even if many of you have probably never heard of him.

With Cap, we have an avatar of justice and truth who happens to be dressed with Stars and stripes. But his actions are more important than his clothes and his actions are consistently more about ideals than simple blint patriotism.
 
Sep 24, 2008
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It feels this thread should have been 'Do you dislike American Patriotism.... oh, yeah. There's someone named Captain America' with the responses people are giving, and freely admit they know really little about the character.

Captain America has routinely been calling the Government out on it's shit in the 616 universe. As one person already pointed out, Captain America gave up his citizenship and rebelled against the government when they weren't living up to his standard.

So, we have the haters that say all he is a blind patriot... when he's nothing of the sort. He tries to live an ideal, just as much as any other hero does. It's a place he would like to live in.

Then we have the haters who say he's boring because all he does is follow the law. Yeah, he lead a superpowered revolt against the nation he served most of his life.

Elementary - Dear Watson said:
Maybe I need to give Capt America more of a chance, it's just I don't find him that interesting as a hero. He is too predictable and dull, and only seems to be ok when part of a group. I will stick to my favourites (The Punisher, Black Panther, Wolverine and The Darkness :p)
I'm sorry that you're the only one that I pointed out, but this last part boggles the hell out of me.

The Punisher is going to be tortured, say fuck the law because it failed me, and kill people.

The Black Panther will focus on the honor of his title, the safety of his people, and being one smart mother fucker.

Wolverine... I don't even want to get into wolverine. He'll brood, say how bad ass he is (when it's very easy to be bad ass when you can heal from anything), and slice people.

I don't know who the Darkness is, but I'm thinking it's the game of the same name?

Why are those people not predictable and dull if they do the same thing over and over again, just like Cap?
 

babinro

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No (Canadian)

His character as I've seen him portrayed in various televised/movie forms in Avengers/solo flicks is uninteresting. He's typically portrayed as overly perfect and feels like I'm watching an even less interesting Superman. I don't find his solo villains to be particularly engaging either.

I don't read comics but I understand that Captain America is a very different character in those.
I suspect I might like him in that format a lot more than what we see on t.v.
 

Ieyke

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verdant monkai said:
I realise that I may be stepping on thin ice here, being a non american and bringing captain America into question.

As a non American... captain America to me is just a rather in your face personification of American military might, who seems like he would offer his protection exclusively to U.S citizens. Whereas a character like Superman, who used to be a boring personification of truth justice and the American way, is now a global icon. Not of just an all American hero but also a character who is just an all round pure hero, who would not discriminate on things like where you live. I know C.A helps all nationalities of people in the comics, but he does by his design seem like he puts America above all else.

This may be just because I am not the target audience for C.A comics, and maybe for Americans the character fills you with pride, and a sense of patriotism. Its just that he seems to be an icon that exclusively caters to Americans and alienates everyone else.

I realise that he is not a particularly threatening character, and the shield he carries marks him as a defensive protector, rather than an aggressive over powering figure. Its just that now WWII is over, he seems like a piece of history rather than someone we should be focusing on in 2014.

I'm really sorry about the poll guys I have no idea how to fix it, despite editing in a No (American) option.
I realise I must sound like an annoying minor bad guy out of one of the marvel films (probably one of the old fat white guys in suits, who get shocked when they are proven wrong), and my rant may seem like hate for America, but it really isnt I love America. I've visited it a few times and I have always wanted to come back. And hey I'm not even a big fan of Marvels other shameless personification: Captain Britain.



So I was wondering if anyone still really likes this guy, there is an option for being an american citizen and liking C.A. That's not because I dont value your opinion, its just that I'd just like to see what the ratio looks like.
You have no understanding of Captain America.
Like, you're literally completely wrong.
It is genuinely hard to be more wrong.
Iron Man is the symbol of American military might.

Captain America is a champion of what America is MEANT to be, not what it is.
Captain America QUIT being Captain America when America turned against the values it is meant to stand for (liberty, justice, equality, freedom).
Captain America does not work for America. He champions the ideals that it is meant to embody.
He doesn't take kindly to America dishonoring itself, and debasing the noble ideals for which it ostensibly stands.



The Marvel Civil War was a perfect example of this, in which the US Government began infringing on the rights of its superhumans and attempted to force them to register their identities and powers.
Iron Man was the commander of the superpowered forces (both pro-registration heroes and supervillains forced to serve the government) working FOR the government,
while Captain America immediately became the commander of the resistance, even though it meant being hunted by the government, being branded a traitor and criminal, and even having to fight his pro-registration friends.

"On Olympus, we measure wisdom against Athena...speed against Hermes...power against Zeus. But we measure courage...against Captain America." - Hercules
Beyond that, YES, Steve Rogers is a relic of a different era. That's half of the point of his character. He's a man out of time. Lost and isolated from the world he knew and the people he cared for. But while Steve Rogers is an anachronism, the things he stands for as Captain America are timeless. They are things he stands for no matter where he goes and who he deals with.
That's the point.

Captain America is the hero that all other heroes in the Marvel universe look up to.
As a character, he's beyond Superman.
 

Elementary - Dear Watson

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ObsidianJones said:
It feels this thread should have been 'Do you dislike American Patriotism.... oh, yeah. There's someone named Captain America' with the responses people are giving, and freely admit they know really little about the character.

Captain America has routinely been calling the Government out on it's shit in the 616 universe. As one person already pointed out, Captain America gave up his citizenship and rebelled against the government when they weren't living up to his standard.

So, we have the haters that say all he is a blind patriot... when he's nothing of the sort. He tries to live an ideal, just as much as any other hero does. It's a place he would like to live in.

Then we have the haters who say he's boring because all he does is follow the law. Yeah, he lead a superpowered revolt against the nation he served most of his life.

Elementary - Dear Watson said:
Maybe I need to give Capt America more of a chance, it's just I don't find him that interesting as a hero. He is too predictable and dull, and only seems to be ok when part of a group. I will stick to my favourites (The Punisher, Black Panther, Wolverine and The Darkness :p)
I'm sorry that you're the only one that I pointed out, but this last part boggles the hell out of me.

The Punisher is going to be tortured, say fuck the law because it failed me, and kill people.

The Black Panther will focus on the honor of his title, the safety of his people, and being one smart mother fucker.

Wolverine... I don't even want to get into wolverine. He'll brood, say how bad ass he is (when it's very easy to be bad ass when you can heal from anything), and slice people.

I don't know who the Darkness is, but I'm thinking it's the game of the same name?

Why are those people not predictable and dull if they do the same thing over and over again, just like Cap?
No worries chap. It's good for a debate... and to be honest I can't really explain it. Maybe it is the execution of the other characters I like. Yes, I know that the Punisher will do everything he can to kill the enemy, and that he will (after being injured somehow) succeed. But its how he does it I like... The OTT violence. The carefully planned and executed missions. The one man army feel to him. I like that.

I really like the Black Panther. The fact that he is one smart fella and there is evidence of that (which is somewhat missing from Captain America at times.) I like how he is that strong leader I aspire to be in my day job. Captain America to me is just odd. He often works along side the military, but does't act like an officer in that role. At least Captain Britain is normally working separate with a team of just hero's and will oft take the leader role.

I like wolverines anger and drive...

And I like The Darkness because it is actually a very unpredictable story... A man who was bad and corrupt before, now struggling under influence from something even more evil. Finding himself thrown into a battle against something he hadn't heard of himself, but also still wanting all the power and glory he had before.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention that I did really enjoy Winter Soldier and Death of Captain America... But not for him as a character. The relationship between him and Bucky was the interesting one for me, and Bucky taking up the legacy was a good take on national morale and public figures... but others I have tried I have found lacking, and the Cap in different groups I always find a bit dull and long for more exciting characters!
 

SonicWaffle

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Brit here, and yeah, he's great. He's an actual hero who tends not to spend time brooding, navel-gazing or questioning the morality of everything he does. He's not an it-was-cool-in-the90's angry, overcompensating badass either. He's on a par with Superman. Just a decent guy, doing what he can because he's able to.
 

Stu35

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Ratty said:
Me55enger said:
And as a Briton, I see no connection between myself, my perception of what it is to be British, and... and that.
What about Union Jack [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack_%28comics%29]? His costume is way, way cooler.

I think it's the fact he's a spandex wearing super hero.

We're not really a nation of Spandex wearers.

British Bulldog aside.


A superhero representing "Britishness" would probably be more nondescript. Definitely less "in-your-face". Perhaps one who refuses point blank to take unneccesary risks, or violate a strict code of conduct surrounding the use of violence. A man who fills out endless paperwork in order to track and ensure that he spends his time fighting crime and not filling out needless paperwork.

That, is the true paradox of Captain Britain. A slave to a bureaucratic system that demands transparency and accountability at the same time that it demands action be taken and common sense employed.


Or, y'know. Dr. Who or some shit.
 

verdant monkai

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Me55enger said:
Either you're taking me too seriously or you're not taking me seriously enough. Seriously.

The mid-20th centuary perception of America might be enough for their modern super heroes, but even the externalised stereotype of England is in no way representative of that image, let alone the internal.

Thanks for assuming I'm blind, but the Union Jack part is simultaneously tenuous and unavoidable. And as a Briton, I see no connection between myself, my perception of what it is to be British, and... and that.
I'm getting the feeling you don't like Captain Britain.

I dont think C.A is enough to fully represent the whole of the united states. And I understand of course that C.B isn't enough for just England, although he is Captain Britain of course, and Britain means as you know not just England, but Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. So I agree with you in saying that they aren't enough to represent their nations, and the idea of a single hero occupying the persona is dumb.
 

verdant monkai

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Ieyke said:
You have no understanding of Captain America.
Like, you're literally completely wrong.
It is genuinely hard to be more wrong.
Iron Man is the symbol of American military might.

Captain America is a champion of what America is MEANT to be, not what it is.
Captain America QUIT being Captain America when America turned against the values it is meant to stand for (liberty, justice, equality, freedom).
Captain America does not work for America. He champions the ideals that it is meant to embody.
He doesn't take kindly to America dishonoring itself, and debasing the noble ideals for which it ostensibly stands.



The Marvel Civil War was a perfect example of this, in which the US Government began infringing on the rights of its superhumans and attempted to force them to register their identities and powers.
Iron Man was the commander of the superpowered forces (both pro-registration heroes and supervillains forced to serve the government) working FOR the government,
while Captain America immediately became the commander of the resistance, even though it meant being hunted by the government, being branded a traitor and criminal, and even having to fight his pro-registration friends.

"On Olympus, we measure wisdom against Athena...speed against Hermes...power against Zeus. But we measure courage...against Captain America." - Hercules
Beyond that, YES, Steve Rogers is a relic of a different era. That's half of the point of his character. He's a man out of time. Lost and isolated from the world he knew and the people he cared for. But while Steve Rogers is an anachronism, the things he stands for as Captain America are timeless. They are things he stands for no matter where he goes and who he deals with.
That's the point.

Captain America is the hero that all other heroes in the Marvel universe look up to.
As a character, he's beyond Superman.
I have no understanding of Captain America.
I'm like literally completely wrong.
It would genuinely be hard to be more wrong.
Iron Man IS the symbol of American military might.

Is that better?

To be honest I dont care what America is MEANT to be as I'm not American. So calling him an American symbol isnt all that far from what you are doing, saying he is a symbol of an idealistic America. He is still an icon associated with America. As a non US citizen what relevance do symbols of the US have for me?

He might be a lovley man. I would probably ask to buy him a beer if I met him, he would probably turn me down because he is a bit boring like that.

He may be a man who will save everyone no matter their race or nationality, but he is still a walking flag. And its not my flag, so as such a heavily themed hero I find him hard to like.


I know this is a different topic but I have to defend Sm I love him.
Captain America is so beneath Superman it hurts, he can't even begin to compare to the man of steel. Superman has for years now outgrown the racist slap a jap war time comic strip deal, and has evolved a beloved icon not just for Americans but for humans everywhere of all nationalities. He is the worlds first Superhero and everyone knows him, people who don't speak English know who he is. Everyone in DC respects him, and the Gods in DC respect him.

Superman can bench press a continent and fly faster than light, and that's just two of his powers. I dont know all of C.A's powers but he's strong enough to lift a car maybe, and has a really hard shield. He may have super reflexes and all that and I admit he could be pretty cool but he isnt superman.
 

TheRightToArmBears

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verdant monkai said:
I know this is a different topic but I have to defend Sm I love him.
Captain America is so beneath Superman it hurts, he can't even begin to compare to the man of steel. Superman has for years now outgrown the racist slap a jap war time comic strip deal, and has evolved a beloved icon not just for Americans but for humans everywhere of all nationalities. He is the worlds first Superhero and everyone knows him, people who don't speak English know who he is. Everyone in DC respects him, and the Gods in DC respect him.

Superman can bench press a continent and fly faster than light, and that's just two of his powers. I dont know all of C.A's powers but he's strong enough to lift a car maybe, and has a really hard shield. He may have super reflexes and all that and I admit he could be pretty cool but he isnt superman.
I think you're misunderstanding. In terms of his character- his personality, traits etc. he's at least an equal of Superman. Yeah, the Cap's is hopelessly outgunned by Superman, but that's nothing to do with his character. Actually, Cap' being the underdog makes him even more admirable in my eyes. When you can benchpress a continent, there's not that much in the world to be afraid of. When you're going up against gods and whatever else and you're basically as strong as the strongest possible human, it's a hell of a lot more impressive.
 

Raikas

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I'm fairly neutral on him - I think the character has an interesting history and I think some writers have done interesting things with him, but he's never been a character that I cared about one way or the other.

It's not the overt nationalism though, since I've always liked Captain Britain. Although I think that's primarily because he's been a character in team books that I enjoyed (mid-90s Excalibur, Paul Cornell's Captain Britain and MI:13 series, and the new Revolutionary War series has caught my attention as well).