I would point out that the grass is always greener on the other side of the pasture. People look at Europe and go "well see, it's not so bad". People tend to forget that most of those nations do not enjoy some of the fundemental freedoms that we have here. Such as freedom of the press. Other nations make pretensions of it, but when you get down to it even in Europe the people are kept fairly ignorant. For example in France when the whole "Oil For Food" scandal broke as well as the whole thing with the War On Terror in general, the way France covered things for their people was lightyears away from the truth.
A lot of socialist nations will say "see, look we allow the press to criticize the goverment" but when you get down to it, it's very limited. In comparison everything the goverment in the US goverment does is subject to public scrutiny (even in cases where it shouldn't be). Our right to keep and bear arms is one of the things that prevents the goverment from seeking to take direct control of things like the spread of information.
Consider that when people talk about Europe they tend to look at England/Britan which is the most progressive area (but still a bit behind us, and hardly a utopia). People tend to forget about the majority of European socialist countries, the condition they are in, and how much power the goverment has. There is a reason why our goverment was trying to play games by transferring captured terrorists to european holding facilities where there was
far less scrutiny of interrogation methods.
When you consider all the Polish people coming to the US on work programs, or seeking a better life (still going on today) it sort of puts things into perspective. Poland being one of the US's closer allies overall. Back when I worked Casino Security they brought Polish workers in to cut costs (ie people from Poland who work 6 months under a contract and then go back to Poland with their money, not accrueing benefits or seniority so it saves the company money). I asked a number of questions about things like socialized health care and the answer was pretty much that while nice on paper, it wasn't so nice in practice. Quality goes through the floor, and huge waiting lists develop. Makes it very hard to deal with any serious problems or get immediate treatment for something serious due to all the time the goverment spends treating Neurotics and Hypochondriacs. Also the goverment itself decides it wants to cut corners which makes things even more difficult.
-
Some people might have noticed I am frank about calling Canada "little America", whether it's an insult or not is a matter of opinion. The truth is simply that Canada can only do some of the things they do, and have them turn out the way they are, because of America. For example here in America we have top of the line schools for training doctors, because those schools can charge huge tuitions, and the people paying those tuitions can expect to make good livings even after paying it off. This provides a training ground (especially with some of the deals we cut) to produce top of the line Canadian doctors.
If America socialized and those schools reduced in quality due to no longer being able to make serious money (since doctors would no longer be as high paying or prestigious a profession), you'd also see a massive hit over time to the Canadian health care system.
It's also notable that the huge profits that are made by drug companies in America are what allow them to continue developing and producing the same drugs that Canada uses. Socialized medicine means less reason for drug companies to spend billions of dollars trying to treat illnesses.
A lot of things have been said about the drug industry to make it as a corrupt institution, and arguably it does have a lot of problems. However slam them too hard and ultimatly progress will cease. It's a delicate balancing act.
As someone who is disabled and rather dissatisfied with Medicare and Medicaid (long story) I understand the appeal of socialized medicine. However being a realist, it would drop the coverage of most Americans to what I have now (if that) and probably only get worse over time.
The American medical system props up a lot of those socialist systems, especially the one in Canada.
Also it should be noted that on the original subject (gun control), Canada is in the unique position of being "independant" but within the direct hegemony of the US which is the most powerful, and enlightened nation/culture the world has ever known (though our power might be waning due to our own morality, but that is another discussion). There are limits to what the US would allow Canada to do. If Canadian socialists ever started getting really out of control we'd walk in and displace them. Like it or not what America says/does/thinks is incredibly important to every aspect of Canadian existance.
Canada gets to enjoy the best of both worlds (Socialism and Capitolism/Freedom) because of it's relationship with the US.
The thing is though that if the US goverment was to ever seriously crack down and go socialist on the American people. The right to arm oneself disappears, the military becomes more caste like due to higher standards (allowing for more govermental selection even among the lower-mid ranking officers), and rights like free speech and freedom of the press are slowly eroded for our own protection (OMG! we must protect the people from violent video games and hate speech... let us regulate all communication tightly for the good of all our citizens!), you'd see the same stuff going on with Canadian socialists since we'd no longer care about stopping them and everything would at least be mirrored there.
Now yes, with limitless resources we could in theory institute the "Star Trek" ideal of Roddenberry Socialism (which itself has a dark side, but this isn't a discussion for Trek nerds). But as resources are limited the more people the goverment has to provide for the thinner the resources get spread since there is a finite amount of stuff. The less prestigious the medical profession becomes, the less doctors there are, and the less invested in training them. Constantly availible medical care suddely means every person with a hang nail is going to want to see a doctor, and of course this means huge waiting lists, even more medical bureaucracy, and a lot of mistakes happening simply because of the
massive crush.
The same applies to everything else. If say the goverment suddenly has to provide everyone with shoes, it's going to produce the most cruddy mass produced shoes one can get away with to save money, and everyone is going to have to wait in line and/or sign up on lists to wait for shoes. Of course the guys running the goverment aren't going to go without anything. After all they will take the best stuff for themselves due to their important jobs.
Those that complain will of course be arrested or disappear, not much you can do about it because the goverment took away your guns. Oh and the military, well unlike now they will fire on the civilian population because they have been given a little more than everyone else and want to keep it. They were also seperated from the herd due to testing, and everyone, especially the officers now has a vested interest in being loyal to the goverment and the status quo, rather than being a true for representitive of the people.
It doesn't happen overnight, but welcome to Amerika. No more "United States" because with an all powerful federal goverment the state goverments and any pretesions of localized control with people deciding what is best for themselves in their own area is gone.
Apologies for the length and rambling between subjects, but honestly, it gets me how little people understand a lot of the issues at stake.
A lot of socialist nations will say "see, look we allow the press to criticize the goverment" but when you get down to it, it's very limited. In comparison everything the goverment in the US goverment does is subject to public scrutiny (even in cases where it shouldn't be). Our right to keep and bear arms is one of the things that prevents the goverment from seeking to take direct control of things like the spread of information.
Consider that when people talk about Europe they tend to look at England/Britan which is the most progressive area (but still a bit behind us, and hardly a utopia). People tend to forget about the majority of European socialist countries, the condition they are in, and how much power the goverment has. There is a reason why our goverment was trying to play games by transferring captured terrorists to european holding facilities where there was
far less scrutiny of interrogation methods.
When you consider all the Polish people coming to the US on work programs, or seeking a better life (still going on today) it sort of puts things into perspective. Poland being one of the US's closer allies overall. Back when I worked Casino Security they brought Polish workers in to cut costs (ie people from Poland who work 6 months under a contract and then go back to Poland with their money, not accrueing benefits or seniority so it saves the company money). I asked a number of questions about things like socialized health care and the answer was pretty much that while nice on paper, it wasn't so nice in practice. Quality goes through the floor, and huge waiting lists develop. Makes it very hard to deal with any serious problems or get immediate treatment for something serious due to all the time the goverment spends treating Neurotics and Hypochondriacs. Also the goverment itself decides it wants to cut corners which makes things even more difficult.
-
Some people might have noticed I am frank about calling Canada "little America", whether it's an insult or not is a matter of opinion. The truth is simply that Canada can only do some of the things they do, and have them turn out the way they are, because of America. For example here in America we have top of the line schools for training doctors, because those schools can charge huge tuitions, and the people paying those tuitions can expect to make good livings even after paying it off. This provides a training ground (especially with some of the deals we cut) to produce top of the line Canadian doctors.
If America socialized and those schools reduced in quality due to no longer being able to make serious money (since doctors would no longer be as high paying or prestigious a profession), you'd also see a massive hit over time to the Canadian health care system.
It's also notable that the huge profits that are made by drug companies in America are what allow them to continue developing and producing the same drugs that Canada uses. Socialized medicine means less reason for drug companies to spend billions of dollars trying to treat illnesses.
A lot of things have been said about the drug industry to make it as a corrupt institution, and arguably it does have a lot of problems. However slam them too hard and ultimatly progress will cease. It's a delicate balancing act.
As someone who is disabled and rather dissatisfied with Medicare and Medicaid (long story) I understand the appeal of socialized medicine. However being a realist, it would drop the coverage of most Americans to what I have now (if that) and probably only get worse over time.
The American medical system props up a lot of those socialist systems, especially the one in Canada.
Also it should be noted that on the original subject (gun control), Canada is in the unique position of being "independant" but within the direct hegemony of the US which is the most powerful, and enlightened nation/culture the world has ever known (though our power might be waning due to our own morality, but that is another discussion). There are limits to what the US would allow Canada to do. If Canadian socialists ever started getting really out of control we'd walk in and displace them. Like it or not what America says/does/thinks is incredibly important to every aspect of Canadian existance.
Canada gets to enjoy the best of both worlds (Socialism and Capitolism/Freedom) because of it's relationship with the US.
The thing is though that if the US goverment was to ever seriously crack down and go socialist on the American people. The right to arm oneself disappears, the military becomes more caste like due to higher standards (allowing for more govermental selection even among the lower-mid ranking officers), and rights like free speech and freedom of the press are slowly eroded for our own protection (OMG! we must protect the people from violent video games and hate speech... let us regulate all communication tightly for the good of all our citizens!), you'd see the same stuff going on with Canadian socialists since we'd no longer care about stopping them and everything would at least be mirrored there.
Now yes, with limitless resources we could in theory institute the "Star Trek" ideal of Roddenberry Socialism (which itself has a dark side, but this isn't a discussion for Trek nerds). But as resources are limited the more people the goverment has to provide for the thinner the resources get spread since there is a finite amount of stuff. The less prestigious the medical profession becomes, the less doctors there are, and the less invested in training them. Constantly availible medical care suddely means every person with a hang nail is going to want to see a doctor, and of course this means huge waiting lists, even more medical bureaucracy, and a lot of mistakes happening simply because of the
massive crush.
The same applies to everything else. If say the goverment suddenly has to provide everyone with shoes, it's going to produce the most cruddy mass produced shoes one can get away with to save money, and everyone is going to have to wait in line and/or sign up on lists to wait for shoes. Of course the guys running the goverment aren't going to go without anything. After all they will take the best stuff for themselves due to their important jobs.
Those that complain will of course be arrested or disappear, not much you can do about it because the goverment took away your guns. Oh and the military, well unlike now they will fire on the civilian population because they have been given a little more than everyone else and want to keep it. They were also seperated from the herd due to testing, and everyone, especially the officers now has a vested interest in being loyal to the goverment and the status quo, rather than being a true for representitive of the people.
It doesn't happen overnight, but welcome to Amerika. No more "United States" because with an all powerful federal goverment the state goverments and any pretesions of localized control with people deciding what is best for themselves in their own area is gone.
Apologies for the length and rambling between subjects, but honestly, it gets me how little people understand a lot of the issues at stake.
![chaser[phoenix]](https://eg-forums-escapist-data.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/data/avatars/l/39/39551.jpg?1620335814){kind=avatar}
