Poll: Do you smoke ?

[DazZ.]

If I were you, I'd take your parents smokes and flush them down the toilet, and continue to do so until they acknowledged that they are the ones with a destructive habit and that if they are responsible parents, they won't make you suffer for their own lack of judgment.

Good luck with that... I hope they flush your stuff because of it.

I somehow doubt HIS stuff are actually of a 100% destructive nature, not just to himself, but to his whole family, as is the case with smokes.

Not the point, if my kid took my things and flushed them, whatever it was, his privacy and possessions are not safe for at least the next month. Same as I'd expect if I did something similar, you don't just go through peoples things, let alone to throw them away.

Do you have a kid?

Fine, change the "throw away" part to just "take away" and you have an extremely common situation in a family. If your kids don't do things like they should you can take it away from them. Example, you kid neglects his homework and school in favor of playing World of Warcrap, despite numerous conversations about how much he should be playing and under what conditions, you can take it away as a very justified and common method of setting him straight.

So, if this kid's parents can't take proper responsibility with their smoking, despite numerous talks about it and proven facts that they are doing something wrong, or at least doing it the wrong way, I definitely think it's justifiable to take away their cigarettes.
With great freedom, comes great responsibility.

The fuck has if I have a kid got to do with anything?

If the parents thought the same as you, there wouldn't be a a kerfuffle about the smoking indoors.
I however don't think like you and doubt the parents do either, therefore he should expect to get punished by them if he tries to do anything with their possessions.
You can tell him he has the morale high ground and should do it all you want, they aren't instantly going to rehabilitate themselves the second he puts them somewhere, he is going to get hit.
(Or whatever punishment is for their household, digging through the toilet to fetch them out, to put them in the bin, would be a start in mine. Teach him about proper waste disposal whilst I'm giving the little thief a lesson.)
[small]Take the contents of the brackets with a pinch of salt...[/small]

I think it has plenty to do with it, since you obviously don't know shit about parenting.

Anyway, this isn't a silly argument about who's right or not. They are actually affecting his well-being negatively, while setting a bad example about how you should respect other people. It's as simple as that. I admit I can't tell him what he should or shouldn't do, but I personally don't respect authority if it missuses its powers, i.e, if parents act like dicks, I'm a dick right back.

While I most certainly respect the whole "private possessions" thing and shit like that, there is a point where you can interfere, and that's in the case of destructive behavior.

Like I said, "With great freedom, comes great responsibility". His parents are free to do whatever they damn well please, as long as it is legal, but they have a responsibility to put the kids needs and well-being before their own, especially when the solution is so damn simple. Just don't smoke indoors when there are people living under the same roof who have great problems with it.

You're just repeating yourself.
I understood you think it's wrong a few posts ago.
Doesn't stop the fact the kid will be punished because his parents obviously don't see a problem with it, which is what I have been saying.

 

[dietpeachsnapple]

About once every 3 months.

 

[DazZ.]

You're just repeating yourself.
I understood you think it's wrong a few posts ago.
Doesn't stop the fact the kid will be punished because his parents obviously don't see a problem with it, which is what I have been saying.

Then you're just repeating what he already said a long time ago and effectively added nothing at all to this discussion but a pointless argument.

I added three lines, you went off on a rant about my parenting skills, I responded with a huge post as well so you wouldn't seem so silly. Be thankful.

 

[JourneyThroughHell]

No, and not going to.
It's just a matter of my personal beliefs about smoking.

 

[Asturiel]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but the thing in cigarettes that kills you is not the bit that gets you addicted, so why can't today's crack scientists find something to replace the killing part?

Why change what makes you billions upon billions of dollars? Honestly the smoking companys knew EXACTLY what they were giving you, they just dont care as long as at the end of the day you buy cigarettes.

OT: I dont smoke and have never smoked so I will not judge smokers on that. It's an addiction so I wont judge you. All you did was make a poor choice in your life and to be honest I pity you, as I pity all of those who has constant second hand smoke emissions comming their way. It may be your right to be able to smoke, but not infect the air of those around you.

For god sake's I dont give two bloody shits weither or not it's cold, if I REALLY needed that cigarette to the point where I would smoke it infront of my offspring I'd go outside to -30 without windchill (Gotta love Canada eh?).

 

[Slash Dementia]

I don't smoke. I've never felt the urge or need to do so.
It also doesn't help that I hate the smell, and I have asthma.

 

[ribonuge]

On occasions.
I was addicted about two years ago, but i just stopped at one day. After months of not smoking i started to smoke rarely. Sometimes i smoke once in month, once a week or sometimes every day. Depends on my mood.

That's the way I'd like to be with smoking. I've tried it but I end up getting addicted again - it's a nice idea but in the end it never works (for me). I actually enjoy it and not only because I am addicted, I really do like the feeling and taste - always have.

 

[Shambl3s]

I don't run 10K a day, lay off fatty foods and go to bed every FUCKING day before 11, just to throw it all away by smoking. No, I do NOT smoke. I don't mind when people do, though.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

You're right! Science is witchcraft! Addictions don't at all trick your mind! Hey, addictions don't even exist! It's all a conspiracy from the anti-tobacco companies to make people...hey, wait a minute, there's no such thing as "anti-tobacco" companies...

Reducto ad absurdum is a very silly way to conduct an argument. I'm just saying that "Science" is often influenced by popular opinion. Find me an unbiased scientific test that proves there are no benefits to smoking and I'll be more likely to move with that PoV.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Dude, you're inhaling smoke. SMOKE!

Unlike inhaling carbon monoxide, eating mono-sodium glutamate, smelling tri-chloro ethane, receiving microwave/ultraviolet radiation, drinking ethanol/ethanoic acid, taking lung fulls of smoke every barbecue (more poisonous that second hand smoke), having ink across your hands, piercing your body with fake gold, ingesting sucrose/salt/caffeine, getting ether...

Remember, I'm a non-smoker. I'm just saying there's far worse things about than a legal drug that's used as it has been sold by.

Quick question: Is milk good or bad for you?

Don't know? My case exactly.

 

[Suikun]

SNEEP

In response to your disclaimer, I must make this following case:

I am also stubborn. To add to that, I'm a philosophy major, and thus arguing like this is a wonderful pass-time activity to me. I'm afraid that since the disclaimer was put at the top and thus didn't give me any reason to agree/disagree to reading it beforehand, that your ability to strip me of a) my right to argue back and b) my soul (funny thing is, I have a spare... a story for another time, though), has rendered that bit null and void. Furthermore, I will admit no such urge to smoke during the writing of these posts. In fact, I was more thinking of how I need another Dr. Pepper more than I needed a smoke. Caffeine, I'll admit, is my big addiction.

Now, before things start (and.. just because I can) I'm going to light a cigarette (and an incense stick, in case that goes out unexpectedly), and I'm going to try to finish rebuking your arguments before the cigarette (or incense stick) goes out. (Don't worry, I've fixed the incense stick so it should burn just as long as the cig)

why is it such a chior to answer long posts?

I think you mean "chore", but I see what you're getting at. To me, long posts indicate that it's a good topic for argument and might actually have a good offense/defense going for it to keep a good debate alive. Again, philosopher, so I love to argue.

EPIC BACKSTORY!

So you have proven your long history around/with smokers, so I can see where you're coming from. Perhaps, in your case, it would be good to designate a "smoking room" for when the weather gets freezing. Funnily enough, my boyfriend's a Swede too...

Also, I'd like to say I'm sorry your grandfather went like that. It's always hard to lose a loved one.

But to counter your anecdote, I have one of my own. My grandfather smoked a pipe from the age of 14. He died at the age of 98 from macular degeneration (not entirely sure if I spelled that right). My grandfather smoked his pipe happily every day and it never had any serious side effects for him. Call it a "minority" if you want, but truth be told, there's more out there than you think that have this same thing happen.

You can't tell if you're addicted

Most sensible people know when they're hooked. If you look at a cigarette and go "mnh... damn, I need one..." then you're addicted. If you're like me and can see people puffing away and just shrug, then chances are you're not addicted. Most people just don't want to admit they're addicted, so they claim they aren't because they don't want to be (see the "I can quit tomorrow! ... or maybe the next day.")

You can live a long, full, happy life, die of old age, and not have to suffer

A little more dramatic than what you said, but...

Honestly, I do have a few statistics for you, too. As a gay male, my life expectancy average is about mid-40s already. So... I figure if I'm going to end up dying early anyway, why not live life and enjoy what I can while I'm still here? There isn't just me, though, what of people who have chronic diseases that will terminate them before they turn 30? Should they forsake smoking and drinking and the like because they might live a few extra years? Should the terminal brain cancer patient stop smoking because "it's bad for him"? Methinks that if you're going to die soon, LIVE. Live life with love.

On Smoker's ability to function

To answer your first question: I can't really say one way or another. I view smoking as a neutral entity that, while it might cause medical complications and the like, isn't necessarily bad. Personal opinion, however.

Let's lay out your argument here...

Unhealthy things are bad.
Smoking is unhealthy (overall).
Therefore, smoking is bad.

I'll disagree with the first premise on the grounds that many unhealthy things are actually quite good. Soda, junk food, energy drinks, and even gaming are fairly unhealthy, but I still think that they're not only permissible, but good. I tend to prescribe to the school of "do what makes you happy, so long as it's not destroying the lives of others," which is essentially the Wiccan Creed bent around a bit ("And it harm none, do as thou will.").

It's true that a non-smoker has a better chance of getting jobs et cetera, but that's mostly because of the anti-smoking crusade going on now. Truth be told, I've actually heard in places where smoking is actually encouraged to pick up because it will get you a much needed break when otherwise they'd just keep your shoulder to the plow. (Culinary school, if you're wondering)

"You should smoke!" to "THOU SHALT NOT SMOKE!"

Well, the advertisements were doing what they were supposed to: sell cigarettes. Back in the day, they considered smokes to be not only harmless, but healthy, too. And in comparison to today's smokes; chances are they were right. Studies have shown that old school cigs didn't have nearly as many of the chemicals that we have in cigarettes today that make them so dangerous. Nicotine really isn't as bad as people think it is... the worst it does is makes you want to get more nicotine, which brings me to...

This:http://www.ecigaretteschoice.com/

All the nicotine goodness, none of the smoke, none of the destructive chemicals, and no complaints from non-smokers.

Grandpa revisited

Granted your pathos works here, and I can see where you're coming from, but that's sidestepping the point. There's no proof that he would've lived long enough to see those things even from a natural death. You're right, as much as I hate to admit it and because I loathe the argument, but the "You can't know the alternate outcome" argument does fit here. Perhaps he was fated to smoke and die at that age? Perhaps we were destined to argue online about the morality of smoking... who knoooooows.

"For the lulz"

I'm sorry, but it's never okay "for the lulz"... I can understand a joke, but after spending so many years around Anonyjerks and /b/tards, I've seen too many "innocent jokes" go way past the point of being just "for the lulz" and actually causing people detrimental harm.

Trinket

Woops, skipped over this on the first read through your post...

Isn't sentimental value just as addictive as chemicals? I don't know about you, but I've seen people nearly tear someone apart over some small bauble that they held close. Cigarettes are just like that to the smokers who are addicted; something they can pull out and use to make them happy. Liken it to a music box someone could pull out that makes a little song that has a chance to cause cancer, somehow... perhaps it's made of asbestos or something. I doubt that you'd go and destroy that, just because it's potentially harmful. I hope that makes a little more sense now.

Closing Babble

Yes, I enjoyed reading. Yes, I enjoy arguing this. No, I won't beg for mercy or admit that I'm wrong (yet). I don't particularly want to stop any time soon. A truce or an "agree to disagree" I think needs a few more posts and the like to really get to a point where we end up repeating ourselves...

And ice cream/dinner would be nice, actually. >.> Kinda reminds me of "Thank You For Smoking". I love that damned movie...

-----------------------------------------

Oh, and to whomever said "there is no anti-smoking companies" is dead wrong. Here in the US we have the ever annoying, ever persistent "Truth Organization" which spews statistics and does various things to show that smoking is bad and stuff.

Also, to whomever pointed out that cigarette companies do it just to make a profit, and not caring about the side effects of their products... doesn't that describe almost every company? Welcome to corporate capitalism!

One last thing to wrap this up: I encourage my friends to take a single drag, or a single cig so they know what it feels like. The most common response is "This sucks, I hate it, good to know that I don't like it," which is preferable to "I've never smoked, never will, and I think it's stupid because it doesn't do anything but kill you". Smoking does a helluva lot more than people think, but the corporations trying to get smoking banned/illegal omit the upsides of smoking because they don't want you to know them. Makes them less unappealing if the only upside is "to look cool".


P.S. Damn. Couldn't do it in the time the cigarette burned out. Fun experiment though.

 

[Jark212]

No, but I have been known to have a fine Cigar on occasion...

 

[KurtzGallahad]

I am allergic to cigarette smoke, which, considering my father used to smoke is rather annoying

 

[stok3r]

If I were you, I'd take your parents smokes and flush them down the toilet, and continue to do so until they acknowledged that they are the ones with a destructive habit and that if they are responsible parents, they won't make you suffer for their own lack of judgment.

Good luck with that... I hope they flush your stuff because of it.

I somehow doubt HIS stuff are actually of a 100% destructive nature, not just to himself, but to his whole family, as is the case with smokes.

Not the point, if my kid took my things and flushed them, whatever it was, his privacy and possessions are not safe for at least the next month. Same as I'd expect if I did something similar, you don't just go through peoples things, let alone to throw them away.

Do you have a kid?

Fine, change the "throw away" part to just "take away" and you have an extremely common situation in a family. If your kids don't do things like they should you can take it away from them. Example, you kid neglects his homework and school in favor of playing World of Warcrap, despite numerous conversations about how much he should be playing and under what conditions, you can take it away as a very justified and common method of setting him straight.

So, if this kid's parents can't take proper responsibility with their smoking, despite numerous talks about it and proven facts that they are doing something wrong, or at least doing it the wrong way, I definitely think it's justifiable to take away their cigarettes.
With great freedom, comes great responsibility.

No, I don't have kids. Too young to consider that right now. Sure its justifiable, but I don't think it would help. As a parent, I think you have the right to take away something that is distracting them with their homework, its happened to me many times in the past. Reversely, when my mum discovered that I was smoking, she searched through my room and threw out any cigarettes she found. Did it convince me to quit? No. It just made me pissed.

There are very little things that you can say to a smoker to get them to quit that they haven't heard before. I've only been smoking for 6 months and I've heard alot. My mum quotes the non-smoking adds on tv, and I just say to her that if your gonna try convince me to stop, then try to come up with something original. Don't quote government propaganda.

The hard truth is that some people find pleasure in self-destruction. Some people just do not give a shit that its killing them, and there's nothing you can say to get them to stop.

I don't know who it was, but someone here said that he/she know noone that finds smoking sexy. I for one, do.

 

[Gafawed]

Yea its bad for you, but I smoke cigarettes and the occasionally weed. There is a lot less than I thought there would be.

 

[UltraParanoia]

Used too. Started in high school, stopped because I couldn't afford them anymore.

Seeing as I have money and haven't wanted to buy any more, I guess that means I've quit for good.