Poll: Do you support compulsory military service?

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Hawk eye1466

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May 31, 2010
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it depends if its like switzerland where at 18 everyone goes through basic training so the entire population can defend their home if they are invaded then yes i think its a good idea but if its a draft and people are just being grabbed and sent to the front then no that will only get more people killed
 

Chemical Alia

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Feb 1, 2011
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emeraldrafael said:
William MacKay said:
if i was conscripted, i'd at least ask to be off the front lines.
Also, i think its sexist that only men can be deployed on front lines.
Well, women dont want that right. Thats the problem with Women's rights. They want all the good, but not the bad that comes with it.
I'm strongly in support of women to serve on the front lines, and I knew plenty of female soldiers during my time in the army who felt the same way. If compulsory military service ever existed here, I'd like to see that for everyone as well, though I think it's important to have some kind of community service alternative.
 

EmperorSubcutaneous

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emeraldrafael said:
EmperorSubcutaneous said:
emeraldrafael said:
EmperorSubcutaneous said:
And you know this how?
Ask them. Ask how many would like to lose that pregnancy time off they get (or use it against their sick days). Ask how many would like to do the work that men do, the dirty grimy stuff. Its hard to make the argument without examples, but that one alone where women cant go to serve in the front line (or even be drafted, the last time I understood it), and yet they want to be "equal" with men is horse shit.
How many have you asked? Were they the sane and normal ones, or did you only seek information from the nutty fringe?
Lets see. I've worked for about 5 years of my 18, 3 of those were under the table payments, (2 at a gas station, 1 at a plant moving boxes with a friend), and 2 were at a movie theatre. Of that, I've worked with maybe... 30(-ish?) women, all of who were sane by the American Psychological Association or whoever decides that.

Of those, I worked with women who were between 15-40, six who had had child and 2 who were in pregnancy, but not at the point where they were qualified for "maternity leave". 25 of them said they wouldnt want to do the stuff I had to do (lift boxes weighing 70 lbs, clean the dirt and grime off floors and gas pumps, clean the floors and walls and popcorn popper in the movie theatre). of the 8 who had children/were pregnant, only one said she wouldnt mind not having her maternity leave count against her vacation, mainly cause she had so many days saved up she'd have enough and then some since she waas with the company for a while and worked a desk job.
Okay...First of all, 30 women is hardly enough for you to make the claim "women want this, but not this." And by "sane" I meant "not the type to hold extremist views," not "free from mental illness." People like to look at what the loud, obnoxious portion of a given group say and claim that the entire group holds that opinion, when that's rarely true.

Now. People who aren't strong enough to do heavy lifting shouldn't be expected to do so, whether they are men or women. As for dirty work, did they say "women shouldn't have to do that" or "I don't want to do that"? Huge difference. Few people, men or women, would say "Hell yeah, scrubbing floors sounds awesome!" They just do it if it's their job. And in this case, it wasn't.

As for pregnancy, this is one case where equality just can't come into the picture. If women work while pregnant it's potentially harmful to both the woman and the fetus. They are much weaker during pregnancy and so can't do what they ordinarily could.

As for maternity leave after pregnancy, however, men should have just as much right to paternity leave. Equality there.
 

Ampersand

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May 1, 2010
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It's definitely not cool. I think it's nothing shy of ridiculous that my country even has a military to start with.
 

Ultra_Caboose

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Aug 25, 2008
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No, I don't.

If the country isn't in desperate need of soldiers to face a desperate threat, I don't see the point in it.

Though if the military ever gets around to giant robots I'm signing up in a goddamn heartbeat.
 

Smokej

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Nov 22, 2010
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I think you can learn a lot from a completed military service. I'm not talking about the technical skills you might pick up depending on your assignment or the stories for your local cracker-barrel ;)

An open mind can acquire varying experiences during his service because you experience such a special environment. Here you have to learn how to arrange yourself with alot of different people with different social backgrounds and cooperativeness, companionship, discipline are vital social skills to train for your following academic or working life. If you arent and biased and willing to open yourself for such a challenge, you have the chance to mature your character and mind.

I'm totally aware that you can have bad luck with your assignment in the army, where your experience can be pretty limited and im not talking about whether you should strive for a military career, im just stating that a military service as a part of the transition to adulthood provides a lot of opportunities for everybody.

CleverNickname said:
I'm glad we don't have CMS anymore, though. Choice is superior. I didn't have to and never wanted to, but I still see the value in it. And I'd take a civilian job related to the military if I could think of one.
But if your hear the voices of the Bundeswehrverband and the corresponding administrative offices they clearly state that the reform was rushed and they are facing a recruitment problem, because of the questionable image of the Bundeswehr and soldiers in general in the public opinion...
 

Airsoftslayer93

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Mar 17, 2010
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Yep, instills discipline and promotes good community behaviour, as well as providing relativly cheap militaryand lowering unemployment
 

Volkov

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Dec 4, 2010
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I was born and raised in a country where it was compulsory. And I absolutely do NOT support it. Compulsory military service is an absolutely horrendous idea, in every way possible, corruption being #1 reason.

edit: There are *theoretical* advantages to it, but in practice they are all overshadowed by the corruption compulsory service creates. Other disadvantages also include taking some of the most creative years out of a person's life; I know that my best ideas (one of which is now the topic of my doctoral dissertation) came to me at exactly the time I would have spent in service, had it been compulsory.
 

Falseprophet

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Jan 13, 2009
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In general, no. The discipline, professionalism and morale of modern militaries that eliminate mandatory conscription tends to drastically increase. You get better soldiers from people who actually want to serve than those forced to. Only if the homeland is invaded or under constant threat does conscription make sense. Also, the rich, powerful and connected have always found a way to skirt their duty if they wanted to, so the concept of "universal" conscription has never really existed.
 

Togs

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Dec 8, 2010
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Im in 2 minds- the libertarian and humanist in me finds the concept abhorrent, but some part of me cant help but wonder if it would do people good to experience that kind of dsciplined and regimented lifestyle for short period of time.
Anyone think that it would cut down on the antisocial chav population? or would it just teach them how to a real threat?
 

RagnorakTres

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Feb 10, 2009
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Personally, I think we all ought to adopt the Swiss' model. Every male over the age of 18 must serve 2 years in the military, receiving firearms training and a rifle. They then enter the Reserve, keep their rifle and can be called upon at any time to defend the nation.

Switzerland has the lowest incidence rate of gun crime in the world and has never been successfully invaded (to my knowledge). Part of the latter is obviously the fact that Switzerland is basically a mountain range, but they also have some of the best trained Reserve members in the world. There is still a treaty in place that states that no one can use Swiss mercenaries in a European conflict (with the exception of the Vatican).
 

EMFCRACKSHOT

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May 25, 2009
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I don't necessarily support it and i'd prefer to avoid it myself, but if it was implemented i wouldn't be opposed to it.
And honestly, i think it would do the country some good if everyone was required to do a couple of months reserve duty every year.
 

Togs

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Queen Michael said:
Dana22 said:
Queen Michael said:
No, I don't dig violence. It's not groovy.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
What does this mean?
Peace Through Strength, or more literally "If you want peace, prepare for war".

It always reminds me of the slogans from 1984.
Plus that mindset lead to the Cold War and WW1.
 

emeraldrafael

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Jul 17, 2010
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EmperorSubcutaneous said:
Snip
Okay...

People who aren't strong enough to do heavy lifting shouldn't be expected to do so, whether they are men or women. As for dirty work, did they say "women shouldn't have to do that" or "I don't want to do that"? Huge difference. Few people, men or women, would say "Hell yeah, scrubbing floors sounds awesome!" They just do it if it's their job. And in this case, it wasn't.

We had women bigger then me (I'm a nice healthy 170) who said they refused to lift a box because that was man's work, and any woman who wanted to lift boxes (cause we had I think two on my floor. I know we had at least one, cause I worked with her for a bout a week cause the plant wanted to say that it wasnt just sticking the two males and two females together and be sexist or something, which if you looked at the scenario at all it didnt, it was just work schedules) were setting women back 50 years.

As to the cleaning, they said women shouldnt. I'll give you a specific example I can remember. As an usher in a theatre, one of our jobs was we had to do hourly bathroom checks and take out garbage. The bathroom check meant you had to clean up the bathroom, so if there was puke or shit or piss or something on the floor, you cleaned it up. Because the girl ushers decided they didnt want to do it, they would ask the female staff leaders if the boys could check the girls bathroom (which meant we had to wait for it to be empty, which in a theatre it usually never is) and clean up the mess. There was literally a mess of shit in one stall one day, and the girl who was supposed to check bathrooms said she didnt want to, told me to do it, and when I said no, she went to the female staff leader who then told me:
Its not a woman's place to clean up that mess, and you as the man should have no problem with it, because men are meant to get dirty, while women are supposed to look clean. We dont want our customers to get the wrong image

Plus, our managers always told us that we (the men) werent supposed to have the girls help us throw out garbage because:
1) The bags where too heavy (which was subject to debate, cause we had some big girls and some would want to)
2) The girls complained to leave because they might get dirty from the bags breaking or touching them.

So instead, they would either have only men work the closing shift, or if there was a woman, she was welcome to walk out with the man and watch him throw away trash.

Besides all that, its not about saying whether you want to or not. You are told what you would do in the job, and if you agree and are hired, you should do it. Not just pick and choose. If you work, go tell your boss the next time you see them that you dont want to do something you were hired for, tell me what they say.

As for pregnancy, this is one case where equality just can't come into the picture. If women work while pregnant it's potentially harmful to both the woman and the fetus. They are much weaker during pregnancy and so can't do what they ordinarily could.

There's nothing stopping a woman from doing a desk job, even at 8 months. And I'm not saying they shouldnt get it, but it should count against their sick/vacation days. You should see the abuse Americans use for this. Its staggering.

As for maternity leave after pregnancy, however, men should have just as much right to paternity leave. Equality there.
I'll agree with you there, but the problem then is that people will say that family doesnt have to work, and would instead want the mom with the baby, because I guess its impossible for a dad to raise a baby alone (which is crap, since there's formula feed today).

And to the 30 women thing, its a case study. I'ms orry, I do jobs most women dont apply for so I dont get the benefit of having a huge amount of women to question.
 

loc978

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Sep 18, 2010
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Yes and no... I'm not for drafting people into the US military as it stands, but if the National Guard were to become less a part of the army and more a state-funded disaster relief force, I'd be all for short-run conscriptions. I'd say about 90% of people I meet could have benefited from basic training as a teenager.
There would, of course, be medical exemptions.
 

Smokej

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Nov 22, 2010
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Chemical Alia said:
I'm strongly in support of women to serve on the front lines, and I knew plenty of female soldiers during my time in the army who felt the same way. If compulsory military service ever existed here, I'd like to see that for everyone as well, though I think it's important to have some kind of community service alternative.
In which country did you serve because in my (Germany) i made the opposite experience and the friends of me who are career soldiers agree on this subject. But that being said it's only recently that the german army opened itself for female soldiers (outside of supporting and medical positions)
 

EmperorSubcutaneous

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Dec 22, 2010
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emeraldrafael said:
And to the 30 women thing, its a case study. I'ms orry, I do jobs most women dont apply for so I dont get the benefit of having a huge amount of women to question.
Exactly. So don't make claims like "Thats the problem with Women's rights. They want all the good, but not the bad that comes with it." You have only spoken to 30-ish women, who sound like they are not well-educated. Come back when you've done some real research. If you still feel like you can make that claim, then we can talk.
 

Subbies

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Dec 11, 2010
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I voted other although I wanted to vote yes. Allow me to explain: I live in Switzerland where military service is compulsory and I've almost finished my service time (I took a year off to study and i'm finishing during summer). Like it was in Germany, here it's fairly easy to do either civil service or protection instead of the army. But none the less for me the army taught me many things (some more useful than others ) and I got to meet a lot of different people, oh and the pay is good so if your a student it's a great way to pay your studies. So I think it's great that I was "forced" to do something I wouldn't have done otherwise. So I would vote yes, not because it benefits my country but me. On the other hand I don't live in a country at war so...
 

Adam Green

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Jan 7, 2011
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It's been said a lot already, and I agree with all the no's. A person should have to right to choose to fight for their country, not be forced into a fight they don't want to join. In war, both sides lose soldiers and they are easily replaced as they can be considered as "Expendable". Any war I join will be on a game like Halo where a pixel-based avatar is the one dying and not me.
 

El Poncho

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May 21, 2009
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I think people should be required to train for the military in case of an emergency situation so the army won't be full of untrained civilians shooting to miss when a big war breaks out , but only those who want to stay on in the army should be sent off to war.