Poll: Do you support evolution?

Recommended Videos

wintercoat

New member
Nov 26, 2011
1,691
0
0
SpAc3man said:
I would not use the term "believe".
I would say my conclusion to the evidence I have learnt of is that evolution is the most logical theory of how life came about. I don't expect a better theory to ever exist.
I know you aren't the first person to say this, and probably won't be the last, but god damn it, this is starting to piss me off. A belief is a conclusion that something is true based on the evidence given. I believe in evolution because of the empirical evidence proving it to be true, Christians believe in the existence of God because they believe the Bible is enough evidence to prove it to be true.

People denouncing the word "believe" is ridiculous. You come off as fanatical in the extreme, attempting to distance yourself from anything you perceive as being rooted in religion, even when it isn't.
 

Lhianon

New member
Aug 28, 2011
75
0
0
Matthew Jabour said:
I was searching the other day for a recent poll on how many people believe in evolution vs. creationism, but the only ones I could find were over a year old. So I decided to bring the question to you, the Escapist viewers. I probably won't get many people in the 54+ age group, but all polls have some element of bias. So, which do you believe? Feel free to tear each other apart in the comments.
the premise of your question is flawed since you asume one has to "believe" in evolution. since evolution is one of the theories with the most evidence for it, you could as well ask "do you believe that 2 + 2 = 4?" which is roughly in the same ballpark as far as evidence goes. since none of the answers you made chooseable reflect this, i have to only write this down and click on none of them.
 

Ragsnstitches

New member
Dec 2, 2009
1,871
0
0
dversion said:
There's a lot of talk about people saying that evolution isn't a belief because it's scientifically proven to be a fact of nature. But how does that not make it a belief? You either put belief in the evidence or you don't.

You guys are confusing belief and faith.
Do you believe in the Theory of Gravity? Or do you accept it as a fact? Because no, the 2 are not synonymous.

Belief is a personal state of acceptance. It is subjective. Fact is objective, it exists beyond your personal musings.

There is no belief in Gravity, only fact. You do not believe you won't fall up, you KNOW you won't fall up. A massive distinction. What's more Faith does not exist without belief. When you say, "I have faith in you", you are saying "I believe in you".

Faith is synonymous with Belief.
 

Bluestorm83

New member
Jun 20, 2011
199
0
0
I'm gonna go longwinded on this, because I feel like the term "Evolution" that people use most regularly does not actually mean Evolution.

Evolution is the long slow process of one form of life becoming a different form of life due to changes in its genetic structure.

What people mean when they talk about Evolution is ACTUALLY mere natural selection and specialization. In fact, Darwin's original "Origin of the Species" is about Specialization (where we get the term species) and not necessarily evolution. Take the Galapagos Islands, where Darwin studied. He found tons of unique species of birds, tortoises, and all kinds of other cool shit there. Clearly, CLEARLY their isolation resulted in those Species originating. They'd Specialized to that environment. But that wasn't evolution. Let me explain.

Long ago, Birds and Tortoises got to the Galapagos. Might have been due to continental drift, an ice-age landbridge, the S.S. Minnow, or anything at all. Not important. But when they were there, the ones that were shit to survive in those environments died. Their genes were lost, because they were liabilities. Meanwhile, traits that were beneficial were spread throughout the future generations until they were exaggerated due to inbreeding. Like the Hapsburgs. But nobody thinks that one England Bag who was so inbred that he couldn't even chew his own food was "Evolved." Birds are still birds, Tortoises are still tortoises; they've just specialized into new species due to the preponderance of redundant DNA causing exaggerated and beneficial )in those locales) traits. Specialization happens all over the place.

Natural Selection is unquestionably real too. Slowass meat gets eaten before fast meat does. Fast eaters eat that slowass meat, while slowass eaters suck and die. This improves populations over time too, even if there's no new species coming about. An existing species will become stronger as a whole as weak traits (again, for that location) are bred out or at least minimized.

But the thing is, none of those things are EVOLUTION. Cheetahs are still Cheetahs. They still have Cheetah DNA. More to the point, their Genome still consists of the same number of genes that it always has. Another thing about Cheetahs is kinda sad: They have incredibly low genetic variability. This means that they're specialized as all fuck... but can't really go anywhere, because they've lost genes to allow them to adapt and change as a species. Side Note: I'm usually not in favor of going out of our way to protect animals, and am content to just stop CAUSING them harm and let them do what nature wants, but Cheetahs really can't adapt to nature, so if you ever have the opportunity to shoot a cheetah or steal its home, please don't.

Now, the problem is that the Theory of Evolution, as it is now, takes those two very solid, observable things and connects them with a whole lot of "we don't know." How did life originate? We don't know. Why and how does a genome suddenly expand to allow for a greater quantity of genetic information? We don't know. Why are there so many fossils of accepted species, but an absolute lack of even a single complete fossil of a proposed missing link, especially since evolution as proposed takes so long that literal hundreds of thousands of years, if not millions of years, would go by while that missing link species was as viable in the natural world of its time as all current living species are today? We don't know.

Even still, I can't fault anyone for following the Theory of Evolution as it is written now, because honestly we have no definitive proven truth, because that can only come by using a time machine to go back and actually observe this stuff, and as I keep telling people, my Time Machine can only go forward, and it can only go forward at the rate of one second per second. It was a HUGE waste of money, let me tell you.

What it all comes down to is that everyone who has any stance on the subject will invariably get to a point where they either go, "I don't know what happened here or then, but I believe THIS because someone explained THAT to me."

And honestly, can't it be BOTH? I mean, I'm a writer. I can right this very morning take pen and paper and create a character that's older than I am. And I'm just a fatso on the internet. If there is a God, couldn't that God create a world whose story starts 7000 years ago, but whose history stretches back billions of years before that first word on paper? I don't know. Again, Internet Fatso, not God Science Guru. But here's to the search, eh? (Raises mug.)
 

SpAc3man

New member
Jul 26, 2009
1,197
0
0
wintercoat said:
SpAc3man said:
I would not use the term "believe".
I would say my conclusion to the evidence I have learnt of is that evolution is the most logical theory of how life came about. I don't expect a better theory to ever exist.
I know you aren't the first person to say this, and probably won't be the last, but god damn it, this is starting to piss me off. A belief is a conclusion that something is true based on the evidence given. I believe in evolution because of the empirical evidence proving it to be true, Christians believe in the existence of God because they believe the Bible is enough evidence to prove it to be true.

People denouncing the word "believe" is ridiculous. You come off as fanatical in the extreme, attempting to distance yourself from anything you perceive as being rooted in religion, even when it isn't.
I get what you mean. The issue here is people want to distance themselves from the connotations of "believe" being a synonym for "have faith in" when discussing this topic. The terms "believe in evolution" and "believe in the literal word of the Bible" mean very different things by the word "believe".

We are trying to cement the idea that we favour evolutionary theory because of what we have concluded from our own interpretation of the presented evidence. Not because we "believe" what someone else told us.
 

Headdrivehardscrew

New member
Aug 22, 2011
1,660
0
0
Yeah, well, practicing Christian here and I gotta say that whoever opts to not admit that evolution beats pretty much anything does not deserve to lug around that large a brain.

Most religious folks have the very concept of 'God' all ass backwards.
 

Bluestorm83

New member
Jun 20, 2011
199
0
0
SpAc3man said:
I would not use the term "believe".
I would say my conclusion to the evidence I have learnt of is that evolution is the most logical theory of how life came about. I don't expect a better theory to ever exist.
I have to correct you on this. Evolution does not in any way deal with how life came about. It only deals with changes in that life over a long period of time. It proposes the origins of the current FORMS of life.
 

BrassButtons

New member
Nov 17, 2009
564
0
0
Bluestorm83 said:
I'm gonna go longwinded on this, because I feel like the term "Evolution" that people use most regularly does not actually mean Evolution.

Evolution is the long slow process of one form of life becoming a different form of life due to changes in its genetic structure.
No, it's the change in allele frequency in a population over time. No time to deal with the rest of your post right now, but you really shouldn't tell others how to use a word when you yourself don't know.

Edited because 7am Me somehow confused the words "frequency" and "expression"
 

Some_weirdGuy

New member
Nov 25, 2010
611
0
0
You wanna know the real kicker in these debates?


Evolution isn't the theory, which is something that BOTH sides seem to forget.
When people say 'the theory of evolution', it's actually just a nickname for 'the theory of evolution through natural selection'.



Evolution is not a theory, not even under the scientific definition of theory. Evolution is a phenomenon, and natural selection is the (scientific)theory to explain why/how evolution happens.


((same for gravity ladies and gents, gravity is no theory, 'general relativity', 'quantum gravitation' or the earlier newtonian 'universal gravitation' are the theories))
 

SpAc3man

New member
Jul 26, 2009
1,197
0
0
Bluestorm83 said:
SpAc3man said:
I would not use the term "believe".
I would say my conclusion to the evidence I have learnt of is that evolution is the most logical theory of how life came about. I don't expect a better theory to ever exist.
I have to correct you on this. Evolution does not in any way deal with how life came about. It only deals with changes in that life over a long period of time. It proposes the origins of the current FORMS of life.
I'm going to go ahead and say that is what I meant. It's midnight and I'm tired and whatnot.

Anyway, yes, I concede. That would be the correct definition.
 

JenSeven

Crazy person! Avoid!
Oct 19, 2010
695
0
0
No, I do not believe in evolution.
I do no believe in it because it is a simple fact.
To believe in something is to accept there can be doubt in its existence.
It is a simple fact amd its existence has been proven, therefor therecan be no doubt about it and it becomes unnecessary to believe in it.

The people that say they "do not believe in evolution" are simply ignorant of reality, do not understand science and should get a mental diagnosis.
 

Bluestorm83

New member
Jun 20, 2011
199
0
0
BrassButtons said:
Bluestorm83 said:
I'm gonna go longwinded on this, because I feel like the term "Evolution" that people use most regularly does not actually mean Evolution.

Evolution is the long slow process of one form of life becoming a different form of life due to changes in its genetic structure.
No, it's the change in allele expressions in a population over time. No time to deal with the rest of your post right now, but you really shouldn't tell others how to use a word when you yourself don't know.
Got a definition right here.

"Change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift."

In no way does that invalidate the way I expressed what I did. Your way of saying it was more clinical, to be sure. My overall point is that people often point to one of the components of evolution, like Natural Selection, and say "That is Evolution, it is proven," when it is not. A tire is not a Ford, peel is not an orange. That tire COULD have come from a Ford, but it could also have come from a Chevy. The peel could have come from an orange, but it could also have come from a tangerine.

Some Evidence is not the same as Definitive Proof.

FURTHERMORE, I'd like to take the opportunity to say to anyone who says something along the lines of "I don't see why this is even still a discussion," (not you, but others) that everything should always be a discussion. When something isn't allowed to be questioned then it's not knowledge, it's just Dogma. When "Facts" aren't allowed to be looked into, good men are put to the torch instead of being debated. When everyone just shrugs and says that "everybody knows" something, then people are kept in slavery because they're not really PEOPLE, right?

The debate must go on, for all time, because to stop talking is to stop thinking.
 

wintercoat

New member
Nov 26, 2011
1,691
0
0
SpAc3man said:
wintercoat said:
SpAc3man said:
I would not use the term "believe".
I would say my conclusion to the evidence I have learnt of is that evolution is the most logical theory of how life came about. I don't expect a better theory to ever exist.
I know you aren't the first person to say this, and probably won't be the last, but god damn it, this is starting to piss me off. A belief is a conclusion that something is true based on the evidence given. I believe in evolution because of the empirical evidence proving it to be true, Christians believe in the existence of God because they believe the Bible is enough evidence to prove it to be true.

People denouncing the word "believe" is ridiculous. You come off as fanatical in the extreme, attempting to distance yourself from anything you perceive as being rooted in religion, even when it isn't.
I get what you mean. The issue here is people want to distance themselves from the connotations of "believe" being a synonym for "have faith in" when discussing this topic. The terms "believe in evolution" and "believe in the literal word of the Bible" mean very different things by the word "believe".

We are trying to cement the idea that we favour evolutionary theory because of what we have concluded from our own interpretation of the presented evidence. Not because we "believe" what someone else told us.
But that's like a base-jumper denouncing the word jump because it means to leap upwards and what they're doing is falling off of tall places(jump, by the way, means to push oneself off of a surface using the legs and feet). You're twisting a word to mean something it doesn't, then denouncing it for meaning that made-up definition.

A belief is a conclusion that something is true. Nothing more, nothing less. Said conclusion can be based off of empirical evidence, or it can be based off of faith. The way belief is derived doesn't matter, it is still a belief.

What you're doing is no different than the people who say "it's just a theory".
 

Bluestorm83

New member
Jun 20, 2011
199
0
0
SpAc3man said:
Bluestorm83 said:
SpAc3man said:
I would not use the term "believe".
I would say my conclusion to the evidence I have learnt of is that evolution is the most logical theory of how life came about. I don't expect a better theory to ever exist.
I have to correct you on this. Evolution does not in any way deal with how life came about. It only deals with changes in that life over a long period of time. It proposes the origins of the current FORMS of life.
I'm going to go ahead and say that is what I meant. It's midnight and I'm tired and whatnot.

Anyway, yes, I concede. That would be the correct definition.
We are in agreement. Just said that because there's a LOT of commonly accepted things about the Theory of Evolution that aren't actually part of it.
 

erbkaiser

Romanorum Imperator
Jun 20, 2009
1,137
0
0
Yes and no. Yes, I believe evolution exists and is the mechanism by which species evolved.

No, I do not believe it is completely by random chance. You cannot explain why the eye is built essentially backwards for example if you believe that it is a series of completely random crap-shoot evolving genes.

Of course the body of humans evolved from a Pan ancestor somewhere back in the line, and one group of its descendants became chimps and bonobos, and the other became the various homo species of man.
But I see no reason not to believe this was guided.

I would use the term Intelligent Design had this not been co-opted by the crazy US protestants.
 

pearcinator

New member
Apr 8, 2009
1,212
0
0
I am a bit in the middle...I don't really believe in Evolution as to me it all seems a bit too...convenient. I am not opposed to the idea though and if it is 100% true then I won't bat an eyelid. It also won't make me NOT believe in God.

Also, it irks me that evolution and religion are seen as like oil and water (do not mix) when I think they can co-exist...

By the way, don't try to argue/convert me to believing in evolution by throwing links to websites or walls of text at my face because I don't care! It doesn't interest me enough to truly look into it. I prefer looking towards the future than back to the past. What's happened has happened and which theory is true is now irrelevant to me.

I am not going to write any more on the matter...just sharing my opinion.
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
8,687
0
0
I voted for the "somewhere in the middle" because I do believe in a higher power, but I don't believe in literal interpretations of the Bible. As such, I do not believe that The Flintstones was meant to be taken as a documentary.
 

lunavixen

New member
Jan 2, 2012
841
0
0
Go Team Science!! While religion can certainly have its place in society, it does not belong in science as religion requires faith whereas sciences requires evidence and faith is not an empirical form of evidence.

I will say this poll has created a false dichotomy as it is possible to be religious and still believe in evolution.
 

fix-the-spade

New member
Feb 25, 2008
8,639
0
0
Matthew Jabour said:
So, which do you believe? Feel free to tear each other apart in the comments.
I think there is a fundamental problem with the idea of having to believe in evolution. Belief is the mental confirmation of an idea regardless of facts or evidence. Evolution is backed up by evidence, it's a process you can actually watch happening (albeit at a microscopic level), which makes it knowledge, a belief confirmed by evaluation of the available evidence, making it no longer a belief but quantifiable fact.

Those who chose to ignore it are being willfully ignorant, which is a problem with their capacity to learn rather than believe.