Poll: Do you support gay marriage?

[Jaeke]

snip

Why don't you...Ya know argue? And say what you think is wrong with the statement? Whether you take it at face value or not, the point remains, claiming things as "unnatural" is flawed.

I'd rather watch the Spurs

The short answer: Humans are the only species that can conciously choose to be homo-erotic, and even then I believe it is a state of mind that, yes, you can be born with, but still, ultimately a choice. People who's predecessing family have despression will themselves have inclination toward having depression just like with any other hereditary condition, and I believe homo-sexuality is the same.

For someone who chooses the scientific over religion (not you particularily, just generally) they could agree that it is illogical to think that nature would purposefully design itself to not be able to reproduce, which is one of the (if not THE) driving goals of life.

 

[Atlas13]

Snip.

I personally disapprove. I fail to see the issue here.

I'd rather not debate whether or not someone is born gay. That is not the issue on this thread. And I concede the point that one cannot control their feelings. However, I would like to point out that we can control how we act on them. Some people, for instance, are built with a natural inclination towards violence, some are genetically more likely to become alcoholics. These people are expected to control their actions despite whatever predisposition or circumstance.

To break that down even further, it is not wrong to have homosexual feelings. What is wrong, however, is to act on them. However, it is also wrong for me to approach them with judgement and reproach. That's not the way we're supposed to treat anyone, especially outside of the church. The Bible calls Christians to compassion and love, not what we've seen from televangelists like Pat Robertson.

I believe that everyone is born wrong and born a sinner. Everyone. Not just homosexuals. Nobody is born pure. Everyone sins and everyone will be judged equally in the eyes of God. This is not any form of targeted hatred. I am also a sinner and I work daily to repent.

I have gay friends. They know what I believe, they understand that I believe homosexual acts are wrong, but they accept me as I accept them. It is a relationship built on understanding and mutual respect for each others' views. I believe that they are responsible for their actions, just as I am for mine. If they ever choose to follow Christ, they'll do so willingly. They won't do it because I forced my beliefs on them, argued theology or science with them, or explained eternal damnation and hellfire. They'll do it because of compassion and love showed to them first. Christians have a terrible track record with love and compassion when it comes to homosexuals. That needs to change for everyone's sake.

Finally, I am striving to be as unargumentative as possible, but I feel it is necessary to point out that you've been not only putting words in my mouth, but you have also been making assumptions about my personal views and beliefs. You've attacked my belief system with, frankly, the same bigotry you accuse me of. I'd be happy to discuss this further with you, but I'd like to humbly ask you to turn it down a notch.

I believe that if you examined my personal beliefs, my lifestyle, and my conduct, you would not find me a bigoted, hateful, or spiteful person.

Now see, there's the whole flaw of your argument. You believe it's wrong to act on homosexual feelings. And the only reasoning for that is that it's in a book your parents, priest, or other authority figure either read to you, or gave to you. This book and the culture around it state that homosexuals either have the choice to hate and destroy themselves, or burn in hell for eternity. And you say they will follow this book because someone wrote it in a culture that stoned people for every little thing they did wrong. This book states that the only people who will NOT go to hell are people more perfect than God himself.

You say the bible calls for compassion for love, while in reality the bible is a biography of a being so egotistical, he destroys entire cities for not believing in him. This being is so uncaring, he kills the family of a man and forces him to suffer day after day just so he can hear the man worship him.

Why should we have to control a harmless action, just to appease an ethereal asshole, especially when we can't get a coherent answer about anything written in the book we're expected to follow?

 

[darthzew]

Why should we have to control a harmless action, just to appease an ethereal asshole, especially when we can't get a coherent answer about anything written in the book we're expected to follow?

I never said you have to do anything. Your decisions and choices are yours and you have a right to them.

The entire reason I made my original was to clarify my personal beliefs and allow others to understand how I am both Christian and a supporter for gay marriage rights. In the end, my personal disapproval of homosexuality is irrelevant. I want them to have equal rights and I want them to live their lives as they fit. It is not my place to intervene.

Further, I think discussing theology is off-topic and I won't address it. I'm sorry, but I'd rather not derail the thread any more than I have already.

 

[General Twinkletoes]

I find it "funny" how people are saying everyone should accept gay marriage but when someone expresses an opinion against it people jump all over them about it; Usually being incredibly insulting. I can tolerate peoples opinions about most things, but when people act like someone else is below them because of opinion and continue to preach "equal rights" all I see is a hypocrite.

OT: I don't support gay marriage. I have no problem with people who disagree with my beliefs but I ask that you accept that I disagree. If someone wants to share their opinion with me that is fine, but don't call me a bigot, or an idiot for having a different opinion.

Why does saying : Don't call me a bigot" stop anyone from calling you a bigot?

It's like saying, "I don't mean to be racist but I don't like Asians. If you call me racist you're an idiot" Just saying don't call me a bigot doesn't make you any less of one.

You are saying that because someone is born different to you they should not have the same rights. How is that not bigoted? And yes, people are born gay, it might take some time to realise it or something might trigger it, but it's the way they're wired.

"but when people act like someone else is below them because of opinion and continue to preach "equal rights" all I see is a hypocrite."

How does getting yelled at compare to not wanting gay people to be able to marry? How does that make any sense? They're different things. They're not saying they should strip away your rights to marry.

Think of it this way. I have no idea who you are, but there must be something that makes you different from most people, but not everyone. Something you were born with that you can't change. It's a part of you. Now because of that, you're not allowed to marry, in some states you don't get proper healthcare, people shun you the moment they hear about it.

Why is that fine?

 

[darthzew]

I'd rather not debate whether or not someone is born gay. That is not the issue on this thread. And I concede the point that one cannot control their feelings. However, I would like to point out that we can control how we act on them. Some people, for instance, are built with a natural inclination towards violence, some are genetically more likely to become alcoholics. These people are expected to control their actions despite whatever predisposition or circumstance. To break that down even further, it is not wrong to have homosexual feelings. What is wrong, however, is to act on them.

Says who? And why? I honestly fail to see how an act with no inherent negative consequences can truly be judged as 'wrong', especially compared with such harmful behavior such as violence or alcoholism.

I have gay friends. They know what I believe, they understand that I believe homosexual acts are wrong, but they accept me as I accept them. It is a relationship built on understanding and mutual respect for each others' views. I believe that they are responsible for their actions, just as I am for mine. If they ever choose to follow Christ, they'll do so willingly.

Implying they don't already? Regardless, do you think that someone can follow Christ, and still be and act gay?

On your first point, honestly, the point of it not being harmful is moot. I just believe it's immoral. I do not believe it should be illegal though and I will not fight against homosexuality precisely because I fail to see how it might harm anyone but themselves. I believe people have a right to do whatever they want. If they choose to adopt Christian beliefs, perfect. If they choose other beliefs, that's their call to make.

I want to make abundantly clear that I hold a belief, but I do not impose it on anyone. What I believe does not matter to you because I believe you have a God-given right to do and believe whatever you want. Do I believe there's a correct path? Yes. But you don't have to follow it. Live and let live.

And on the second point, I have three friends who I know are gay. One, whose name is Tyler, is homosexual, but he is (willingly) getting counseling to deal with his homosexual feelings. He does not want to be gay, but he can't help how he feels. He is a Christian. So, yes, you can be gay and be a Christian. My other two gay friends, Mary and Josh, are not Christ-followers.

Can you act on being homosexual and still be a Christian? That's a complicated question that takes a complicated answer.... The hard answer is no. But if you accept Christ and then have gay sex, you don't lose your salvation so long as you repent (which implies never doing it again.)

To make that point easier to understand, I'll use myself as an example. Pornography is considered wrong, however, I sometimes succumb to temptation. That does not make me less of a Christian, it just means that I've fallen and I need to pull myself back up again. I have to repent and try harder to never do it again. It's the same with homosexuality. Part of being a Christian, I believe, means knowing it's wrong and working not to do it.

I didn't mean to make my response quite so lengthy. I hope I didn't leave anything unclear though. Any point I make isn't an argument so much as a clarification. Also, just to be clear, I did not use my friends' real names. I don't want to violate their trust in any way, even on a message board on the internet.

 

[Agayek]

The short answer to this poll is that marriage is nobody's business but the two people getting married. There's absolutely no reason for anyone other than those two and their friends and family to even notice it, let alone have a say in whether or not it happens.

I'm not going to actively campaign for it, as I honestly don't give a flying fuck and don't see why anyone except the gays being denied equal rights would either way, but if asked, I'm definitely in favor of it.

 

[WalrusPowers]

If by support you mean lift a finger to help, then no. But when I'm old enough to vote, then sure.

I guess that counts as a "yes" vote.

 

[Al-Bundy-da-G]

Am the only one to vote as in "No I don't give half a fuck about homosexual marriage or heterosexual marriage. If gays want to get married let them get married just stop shoving your opinion down my throat. And by the way when your entire argument against gay marriage is based on religion, don't suddenly pretend that it's a morale issue to try and make it legal to restrict rights to people based on their sexual orientation. Pricks."

No? Just checking.

 

[deathzero021]

awesome, 93% for yes. why isn't this shit legal?

 

[Jadak]

The short answer to this poll is that marriage is nobody's business but the two people getting married. There's absolutely no reason for anyone other than those two and their friends and family to even notice it, let alone have a say in whether or not it happens.

Except unfortunately, that's not even slightly true, as marriage comes with government involvement and various tax related or other financial implications.

If marriage was strictly a personal thing between two people and/or their religious institution, you'd have a point, and that's what I think it should be. But as it, allowing marriage between any given group isn't simply allowing it, but wanting it to happen.

And while many are willing to 'allow' gay marriage, less are ready to actually provide incentive for it to happen, and right now, one does not come without the other.

 

[ImperialSunlight]

I'd rather not debate whether or not someone is born gay. That is not the issue on this thread. And I concede the point that one cannot control their feelings. However, I would like to point out that we can control how we act on them. Some people, for instance, are built with a natural inclination towards violence, some are genetically more likely to become alcoholics. These people are expected to control their actions despite whatever predisposition or circumstance. To break that down even further, it is not wrong to have homosexual feelings. What is wrong, however, is to act on them.

Says who? And why? I honestly fail to see how an act with no inherent negative consequences can truly be judged as 'wrong', especially compared with such harmful behavior such as violence or alcoholism.

I have gay friends. They know what I believe, they understand that I believe homosexual acts are wrong, but they accept me as I accept them. It is a relationship built on understanding and mutual respect for each others' views. I believe that they are responsible for their actions, just as I am for mine. If they ever choose to follow Christ, they'll do so willingly.

Implying they don't already? Regardless, do you think that someone can follow Christ, and still be and act gay?

On your first point, honestly, the point of it not being harmful is moot. I just believe it's immoral. I do not believe it should be illegal though and I will not fight against homosexuality precisely because I fail to see how it might harm anyone but themselves. I believe people have a right to do whatever they want. If they choose to adopt Christian beliefs, perfect. If they choose other beliefs, that's their call to make.

I want to make abundantly clear that I hold a belief, but I do not impose it on anyone. What I believe does not matter to you because I believe you have a God-given right to do and believe whatever you want. Do I believe there's a correct path? Yes. But you don't have to follow it. Live and let live.

And on the second point, I have three friends who I know are gay. One, whose name is Tyler, is homosexual, but he is (willingly) getting counseling to deal with his homosexual feelings. He does not want to be gay, but he can't help how he feels. He is a Christian. So, yes, you can be gay and be a Christian. My other two gay friends, Mary and Josh, are not Christ-followers.

Can you act on being homosexual and still be a Christian? That's a complicated question that takes a complicated answer.... The hard answer is no. But if you accept Christ and then have gay sex, you don't lose your salvation so long as you repent (which implies never doing it again.)

To make that point easier to understand, I'll use myself as an example. Pornography is considered wrong, however, I sometimes succumb to temptation. That does not make me less of a Christian, it just means that I've fallen and I need to pull myself back up again. I have to repent and try harder to never do it again. It's the same with homosexuality. Part of being a Christian, I believe, means knowing it's wrong and working not to do it.

I didn't mean to make my response quite so lengthy. I hope I didn't leave anything unclear though. Any point I make isn't an argument so much as a clarification. Also, just to be clear, I did not use my friends' real names. I don't want to violate their trust in any way, even on a message board on the internet.

I just want to point out that I appreciate your maturity on this issue. People have a predisposition to believe that Christians are "the enemy" in discussions like this and will argue with them regardless if there is something to argue with. Your steadfast attitude to your beliefs while maintaining an outwardly neutral position is admirable and quite inspiring. Your ability to handle criticism without resorting to offense is also remakable. This is why, while I personally disagree with Christians on a philosophical level, I cannot help but admire the more mature ones. Anyway, thank you.

 

[ImperialSunlight]

I just want to point out that I appreciate your maturity on this issue. People have a predisposition to believe that Christians are "the enemy" in discussions like this and will argue with them regardless if there is something to argue with. Your steadfast attitude to your beliefs while maintaining an outwardly neutral position is admirable and quite inspiring. Your ability to handle criticism without resorting to offense is also remakable. This is why, while I personally disagree with Christians on a philosophical level, I cannot help but admire the more mature ones. Anyway, thank you.

Yes, we should be grateful that, at the very least, he internalizes his hatred of gays.

I'm afraid you just proved my point that people will see people in a bad light simply for being Christians to be correct. He said that he didn't hate gay people. He said he believed it immoral due to his religion, but that he did not hate them for it. We cannot speculate on any internalized hatred of gay people simply because he pointed out a theological objection to it.

Also, on an unrelated note, I really dislike the word "gays". It is like "blacks" or "whites". It implies that people who are gay are utterly defined by their being gay, which is obviously untrue.

 

[General Twinkletoes]

Am the only one to vote as in "No I don't give half a fuck about homosexual marriage or heterosexual marriage. If gays want to get married let them get married just stop shoving your opinion down my throat. And by the way when your entire argument against gay marriage is based on religion, don't suddenly pretend that it's a morale issue to try and make it legal to restrict rights to people based on their sexual orientation. Pricks."

No? Just checking.

Then you should have voted yes, because you think it should happen. voting no is for if you think it's wrong.

 

[Al-Bundy-da-G]

Am the only one to vote as in "No I don't give half a fuck about homosexual marriage or heterosexual marriage. If gays want to get married let them get married just stop shoving your opinion down my throat. And by the way when your entire argument against gay marriage is based on religion, don't suddenly pretend that it's a morale issue to try and make it legal to restrict rights to people based on their sexual orientation. Pricks."

No? Just checking.

Then you should have voted yes, because you think it should happen. voting no is for if you think it's wrong.

Alright yes it is then.

 

[PhiMed]

I voted "no". Not because I oppose it, but because I don't care enough to support one position or the other. This society is going down the tubes, anyway. Who cares what it sanctions? We're heading for another Dark Ages. And soon.