Poll: Do you think spanking is wrong?

[Mr Montmorency]

Hah, "spank" is such a stupid word. It's smack.

SMACK them when they are really getting out of hand. Usually those who don't are raising spoiled kids. Unless they're psychologically punishing them, they need to learn how to smack the bastard.

 

[ReaperzXIII]

Spank the little f*ckers sometimes it needs to be done because talking doesn't get the job done, I see kids get talked to all the time on TV and the parent's try the nice and they don't stop what they're doing and I'm sitting there thinking. "If you just slapped that arrogant little brat I bet he would be singing a different song one that goes like "I'M SORRY I WONT DO IT AGAIN""

Not meaning to be racist or anything but I see black kids getting hit by their parents and they tend to be more respectful and disciplined towards parents than my white friends who were never beaten.

I mean after a while of being told to sit in the naughty chair it loses effect and the kid will eventually realize "Wait, they're not going to hit me so what's stopping me from just standing up and walking off".

Also everyone that disagrees watch Russell Peters on beating your children

 

[Ironic Pirate]

I got spanked on the ass a few times, i didn't misbehave in school or at home because I didnt want to get spanked again. A red mark which hurts for 10 seconds never has and never will hurt anyone.

If teachers could do it then western society wouldn't be quickly be taking a one way ride on the turd shoot

Because society and education were so awesome before. We had cool things like 25 percent unemployment and segregation. Oh wait, nevermind. Okay, we had the Vietnam War... Damn, that was bad too. Hippies? Fuck it, this is hopeless.

Spanking on it's own isn't bad, but there's so much potential for abuse and misuse. You can really fuck your kids up if you do it wrong.

Maybe in your country...



the thing here which is damaging society the most is the people who have not been influenced by National Service (a year military service after completing school). It was stopped in the 60's and everything seemed fine as the next generation who didnt go through it were fine.

However they were actually still influenced by it, as their parents when through it and instilled the same values. It is the generations after that influence has gone (today's generation) which is producing a majority of kids that have no respect for anyone.

Here, 24 hour cheap alcohol, no discipline, poor schools combined with the 'blame someone else' culture = our society is fucked.

This turned into a rant lol but yeah, drastic measures needed in the UK. :/

Alright, I thought you were talking about the US for some reason. No idea what it's like over there, so sorry for being a bit rude in my reply.

 

[Gigano]

I do not believe that violence against children can be justified any more than it can against adults. If I irritated someone to no end, and they responded with violence, the law would punish the perpetrator, and I don't see why children should not receive the protection from being physically violated we extend to all adults (except in cases of hurting them in actual self-defence). Where I live, they have that protection, and I find it entirely fair.

If you can not (or worse; will not) resolve conflicts with verbal/emotional reasoning and/or authority, rather than crude violence, then you probably aren't that fit to be a parent to a child anyway.

 

[fuckwit]

There is nothing wrong with Spanking

Oh.....i misunderstood the thread.

That's exactly what I thought first!

 

[seanmcdow]

I was never spanked but received a slap round the back of the legs when I was being a real brat. I'd say I turned out fine.

 

[Queen Michael]

I'm firmly against it. By all means, do punish your children to make sure they learn proper behavior, but don't do it by hurting them physically. You should never, ever do that to your kids - they should always feel physically safe with their parents. Nothing is more important than that.

 

[TheLaofKazi]

I don't think it's necessary to use physical discipline to raise a child. Studies are showing that it can only give short term results and isn't effective in the long run, it's effects decrease the more it's used on the child. It can even increase the likelihood of the child being violent, it teaches them to use physical violence to solve problems.

It's not the spanking in and of itself, it's the attitude that spanking is needed to raise a child. Some parents might get way too stressed with having to deal with a child and may resort to spanking. Although I don't think it's a good solution, nobody's perfect and everybody makes mistakes. My parents didn't believe in spanking children or anything like that, but there were still a few times where I got to them and they hit me, but it wasn't some sort of structured, purposeful thing, where they sat me down and inflicted X amount of pain for Y behavior, it was out of anger.

And what's with the lack of sources and studies? Common people!

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_3_102/ai_89388984/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin5.htm
http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/healthday/080228/spanking-raises-chances-of-risky-deviant-sexual-behavior.htm
http://www.womensenews.org/story/health/010923/experts-spanking-harms-children-especially-girls
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/09/16/spanking.children.parenting/index.html

As for the government outlawing it, I don't think that's the best approach to the problem. It would cause more harm then good. Making something illegal, even if you think it's bad or harmful, doesn't always result in that problem going away, in some cases it can even make the problem worse. I think if people really want to get people to raise their children without spanking or hitting, then it needs to be a social, not political, effort. Read about the topic, get educated, encourage others to do so, and not just follow the general logic of "my parents did it," because if we followed that logic for everything, we would have complete stagnation, not progression or advancement. If what your parents did was truly the best way to raise a child, then it should be easy to back it up with logic, studies and facts.

 

[PureChaos]

the odd smack is fine but only as a last resort. i got smacked a few times, never did me any harm

 

[Jewrean]

It's the right approach for parents to raise children that fears them? How in the cold, endless heavens could you possibly think that is a good idea? I can hardly comprehend the thought of growing up in fear of my own family, the one group of adults in the world that I'm supposed to fucking trust.

Your initial claim that not indoctrinating with violence is leading to the decline of western civilization is a little harmed by two facts that I can think of right now:

Most leaders, politicians or otherwise influential people are from the generations where spanking was viewed with greater appreciation. Yet they're obviously capable of both mistakes and wrong behaviour, since civilization apparently is about to collapse.

University enrollment continues to set new records, at least in europe, where the population size is more or less stagnated. This should indicate, methinks, that more modernly raised people are quite capable of self-discipline.

About your last two claims:

a: What does that change? Moral is always moral, independently of any specific situation. And even if I've never had a child, I, and most others, have certainly been one, which I also think should lend a modicum of credibility to claims that one makes.
b: In stating that "all families are different", do you not invalidate your right to assert what others should do and think?

It worked in the good old days. What are you suggesting instead? Are you turning a blind eye to the rising stupidity / arrogance of our kids? Smacking your children to make them FEAR you may be an exaggeration. The point is that the child needs to understand that there will be consequences to their actions and something like banning them from their Playstation or taking their smokes away for a few minutes isn't going to do shit. In a word? Parents are too soft. If you think spanking is too barbaric then I highly recommend military / boarding school.

About your first two points:
1) I said it was one of the core reasons. Not the only reason.
2) That's fine to talk about Europe and I agree that you guys are probably doing well. However, I'm mainly referring to America and my country Australia (which is a lot like America). Both nations have become increasingly lazy, obese and are now flooded with disrespectful teenagers. My home town for example is 60% youth. There are many stabbings from people under 25, lots of drug and alcohol use as well as teen pregnancies. And not to mention the hoons (a person who drives an overpowered car and does burn outs and constantly revs their engines in a residential area). From MY experience, hardly any of these dullards have any sense of respect for others and I blame the parents.

Last 2 points:
a) BEING a child is different to HAVING a child. The only opinions that have any weight to them in this thread are those that actually have kids. All others can only be partially considered.
b) "do you not invalidate your right to assert what others should do and think?" Quote me when I said 'This is what everyone should do'. I merely made an observation about how the world works and where it's going. I'm not forcing my opinion on anyone nor are you forced to read it. And yes, every family is different. One size does not fit all.

 

[Jewrean]

Stuff

No. I am not arguing the more spanking the better. Spanking has a purpose and good parents will know when it is and isn't necessary. Constantly spanking your children will achieve nothing. Not spanking them at all or at least not punishing them in a way they actually care about is what leads to brat-like behaviour. There needs to be repercussions to their shenanigans. In terms of the PC Police, having equal rights is important yes. In-fact the more we can make the lines of races, religion, disability, etc disappear the better. BUT the way the world goes about this is forcing their opinions on the majority and I don't appreciate being told what is and isn't socially acceptable. I also do not like the hypocritical nature of how this is all played out. I mean I have to be nice to every race because I'm white. However, other races are allowed to give me shit without them being told off. Sometimes this even means better treatment to the minority then to the majority which I wouldn't exactly call equal treatment. It goes both ways. The right amount of PC is fine. Overly PC (for example censoring a cartoon that has Jesus or a little sexist joke or someone getting punched) is different.

Are you trying to establish a correlation between schools being allowed to spank children and teen pregnancy rates? Because that's not what I was referring too, it's about a parent being able to have the choice of whether or not they should smack their child without fear of being put into prison (sure if it was full on abuse then yeah, but not for punishing the kid when they set fire to the house). My town is flooded with awful awful kids. You really need to see it to believe it. It's overly PC and the town is 60% youth. In-fact see an earlier post, I detailed it a fair bit. Long-story short, it's a shit hole here. Smacking is discouraged. Parents are lazy and allow their kids to smoke and take drugs. Hoons everywhere... etc. Many of the girls are sluts and many the boys drive fast cars into the sides of trees.

"those minority groups you appear to dislike" WHAT? When did I say I "dislike" minorities? Just because I'm against being overly politically correct doesn't mean I'm a racist! What a terrible assumption to make. That's like accusing me of liking child-porn just because I'm against my country proposing to bring in an internet filter (which it is, and I have been accused of this). Being overly PC is almost as bad as being racist. It's the other extreme of the opinion based spectrum, same evil harassment but different shit is said.

I'm willing to bet that all the hardliners who consider anything more than rationally explaining to a child the inappropriateness of their behaviour to be wanton, senseless violence...don't have kids. What happens when all your rationality fails to change the childs actions?

Yes! Exactly! It's funny but when I said I support spanking everyone assumes I spank children and that I'm a violent prick.
But in the end, parents should have the right to choose. Yes abusing this is wrong, seriously hurting a child and leaving bruises is not called for. But you should be able to lightly smack a kid on the bum or the back of the legs. That's all I'm suggesting. Those that think it is barbaric quite simply do not have kids ergo do not know what it's like. Alternatively, they better have some good punishments for their kids up their sleeves because otherwise they will turn into shitty parents. Bad behaviour is inevitable so how will you future parents teach respect?

 

[TheProfessor134]

Spanking doesnt damage the kid. Putting it in time out and ignoring it will. A small red mark on the ass will straighten them out more then saying "sit in a corner for five minutes"

 

[KingGolem]

Corporal punishment is the simplest, purest, and most effective form of punishment I know. Pain surpasses all rhetoric and vernacular, and speaks directly to the animal part of the brain, which I've noticed is most active in youngsters and other feeble-minded people. We've found clay tablets from Sumer describing the caning of children, and it's second-nature to the East Asians, whose culture promotes hard work and discipline. I say NOT using corporal punishment is bad for children, since other methods do not insure a lesson learned. All I know is, when I was a child and I did something bad, I'd breathe a sigh of relief whenever I was just lectured or made to stand in the corner, and I only truly dreaded spanking. Some might argue that the introduction of fear is caustic to a parent/child relationship, but I agree with Machiavelli that a true leader should be loved, but his wrath should be feared. My grandfather spanked my father, my father spanked me, and if I ever get around to having a child, I'll spank him, too, and God damn any sissies, liberals, or women who try to stop me.

 

[Mighty the Moose]

Corporal punishment is the simplest, purest, and most effective form of punishment I know. Pain surpasses all rhetoric and vernacular, and speaks directly to the animal part of the brain, which I've noticed is most active in youngsters and other feeble-minded people. We've found clay tablets from Sumer describing the caning of children,

You mean those same Sumerian tablets that describe how a man is granted the right to sell his children (and wife) into slavery? Yeah those Sumerians were parenting paragons...

and it's second-nature to the East Asians, whose culture promotes hard work and discipline. I say NOT using corporal punishment is bad for children, since other methods do not insure a lesson learned.

When I was in college, I took a summer volunteering in a Korean orphanage so this subject is near and dear to me. Behind closed doors Korean society is violent (an understatement), 1/6 wives get beaten by their husbands and 51% of children experience physical violence. The discipline you seem to admire has come at an enormous societal cost. So high, in fact, that the Korea gov't instituted a nation-wide survey and there is a legal and media campaign trying to curtail the violence. I've seen the scars on these kids, and because the only thing they knew was violence, that's all they used to communicate with others. And how did the Korean staff at the orphanage discipline these kids? With more violence of course. That is until a new, enlightened, director came in and stopped *all* corporal punishment (and asked me and one other American to come from the States to expose the kids to a different language/race/etc). Violence between the kids completely stopped in 2 months (but unfortunately not before one of the 8 year old girls punched me right in the junk).

BTW, child abuse Japan is at a record high; the news over there is full of it.

All I know is, when I was a child and I did something bad, I'd breathe a sigh of relief whenever I was just lectured or made to stand in the corner, and I only truly dreaded spanking. Some might argue that the introduction of fear is caustic to a parent/child relationship, but I agree with Machiavelli that a true leader should be loved, but his wrath should be feared.

And I quote: "Since love and fear can hardly exist together, if we must choose between them, it is far safer to be feared than loved." More an either/or thing it seems to me.

My grandfather spanked my father, my father spanked me, and if I ever get around to having a child, I'll spank him, too, and God damn any sissies, liberals, or women who try to stop me.

So the cycle continues...

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Not at all. The parent must have a means of enforcing dominance in the relationship if push comes to shove. The final resort in such a case is the application of physical force. This isn't to say such treatment should be the first or only resort or that it should be carried to an extreme where long term damage is done (if you're breaking bones, leaving deep tissue bruises or drawing blood, you're doing it wrong). Sometimes a swat on the ass is what it takes to make a point. Yes, some people are particularly resistant to such measures, but such exceptions are best identified by those who have to raise them.

 

[Macheteswordgun]

Spanking is fun..... o wait u mean kids? Some deserve it some dont i see the pro's/cons of it. But the law has the higher standing on it in public at least

 

[stridernfs]

It's not violence, it is punishing them, as long as the parent establishes that because he or she is the parent he or she has the right to punish them then the kid will eventually figure out that it is different with his parents then with other people. Teenagers on the other hand are a completely different matter, the only thing you can do is try to direct them the right way and hope by god they find it.

Yes IT IS VIOLENCE. "Punishment" might be the motivation for the violence, but it's violence nontheless. And in these society which we live in violence IS NOT OKAY to use UNLESS it is in self defense. Get it?

"Punishment" doesn't cut it as a viable reason.

If you went up to me in a bar and poured a pint of beer over my head, that would be unacceptable behaviour on your part. But you can be damn sure that if the cops find out that I punched you in the face for pouring a beverage over my head, do you really think they would listen if I just told them that I was "punishing" you to "teach you some manners"?

Sorry, but that defense wouldn't fly in any court where it is illegal to use violence against other people for other reasons than self defense.

Also, physical force doesn't teach children not to misbehave. It just teaches them to be more cautious about their parents finding out when they do misbehave. This in turn does present an increased statistic that the child will most likely misbheave again, but will also learn how to get away wih it scot free because he or she learned the first time what happens when mom or dad found out about his/her behaviour.

you need to teach the kid WHY it is unacceptable to misbheave in the manner that the child did it. The coin simply has to drop at some point or another.

If you can't get through to your kid like that then you aren't parenting material and incompetent by default.

Your missing my point I never said anything about punishing other people. I even said that when they hit the teenage stage that it is useless trying to punish them with physical pain. Also if I walked into the bar and poured beer on your head you would have the right to punch me in the face because i would be a flipping idiot to just walk in and insult you in that way. what kind of bullshit excuse is "don't do it because they'll learn how to be sneaky little bastards"(complete summarization and a douche move) if im smart enough to figure it out then im smart enough to punish them for being smart little bastards otherwise your right im incompetent for letting them get away with that( which i wouldn't!)this equals awesome->

Children are too young to understand intelligent reasoning. I wouldn't say go all out on them, but banning parents from disciplining their child, I believe, is one of the reasons children are so twatty recently (isn't it weird how the really shitty children arriving in my school coincide with the time the government made smacking an offence?).

Yes, I got a smack when I was being a little shit. It taught me when not to be a little shit. I turned out brilliantly. Burning flesh.

I'm not sure if it contributed, but I have depression, so... Yeah.

I very much doubt that has anything to do with it. There can be any number of reasons for depression, including natural chemical imbalance not caused by external factors.

Pretty much this. Little children have little to no actual understanding of abstract concepts that are associated with reasoning. They need concrete evidence that doing something wrong will not be tolerated, that evidence being a whupping.