Poll: Do you think the whole romance subplot thing improves Bioware games?

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Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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"Sweet Jesus," you say, "another one of these threads? Really?!"

Well... yeah. Another one. And it's a wordy one too. Sorry.

Thing is, I'm actually not arguing one way or the other here. Because I for one simple cannot make up my mind either way .

On the one hand I appreciate what they're trying to do. They're trying to include romance and relationships within their games in a mature manner. That's a good thing. Plus, they're doing it based on choice, rather then just shoving it down our throats whether we like it or not. Also, it's worth mentioning that there's quite a range in there, adorable blood mages, boyish knights, psychotic fugitives, spiritual assassins... you name it. Sure makes a nice change from the usual white-male-action-lead-meets-non-threatening-white-girl (eg. the Uncharted games).

However, note that I said "trying". Because, as much as I appreciate the attempt, they're just not there yet.

Because, on the other hand, while the characters involved are awesome, the romances are just plain badly written. Sure, they include the occasional good line or cute moment, but at the end of the day they invariably consist of the following:
1) Chat.
2) Chat again.
3) Flirt.
4) Declare attraction.
5) Wait.
6) Sex.
7) Nothing.

That is not a good romance arc. A good romance consists of two or more interesting characters of debatable compatibility with a healthy dose of drama and misunderstanding thrown in, not a few lead-up conversations followed by a quick one-off boinking.

(The one exception to this, at least in my opinion, was Liara in Lair of the Shadow Broker. I thought that managed to give a good impression of two people who were very comfortable in one another's presence. But even then, I would be kidding myself if I said it was genuinely good.)

Part of the problem is the player-created protagonists. Since Shepard, The Champion or the Grey Warden don't have a set character or personality, the writers are forced to create romances that fit damn near anything, which inevitably leads to them being a bit bland and by-the-numbers. Also, they're a bit too concerned with being simple wish fulfilment and/or ego-stroking at the cost of actually being, y'know... good.

Furthermore, the romance arcs are almost completely divorced (hurr hurr) from the main plot. They're just something you do in between killing mooks and saving the universe. Granted, there was Morrigan in Dragon Age, but she's an exception to the rule.

Then again, on the other other hand (the gripping hand if you will), any complaints I might have can be overridden be the fact that it's all entirely optional. "Hey, if you think the romances are poorly written then just leave them be. Shepard isn't going to die from a dry spell."

Although, on the other other, other hand...

Actually, screw it. I'm not going there. This is too long already.

So... tell me what you think. Because, personally, I have no bloody idea.
 

th155

New member
Mar 4, 2011
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Eh, on my first playthough of all the BioWare games i have played i didn't even notice it. So no, it didn't add or remove anything from my BioWare games.
 

AyreonMaiden

New member
Sep 24, 2010
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Yes. Never a bad thing to have this dynamic.

It's there for those who want it, and can be bypassed by those who don't. The execution's mileage will vary, but I'm not against including them.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

The Killjoy Detective returns!
Jan 23, 2011
4,701
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I'm fine with them as long as Bioware doesn't start focusing on them too much. They are a decent diversion. They could be better written. The "4 dialogs then sex" thing just doesn't flow very well. DA2 tried to fix it, but it was still "4 dialogs spaced over a few years then sex".
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
Legacy
Jul 18, 2009
20,519
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The romance subplot isn't really the problem.

It's those stereotypical Bioware-love interests that I'm getting tired of. Mainly the shy nerd girl.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

Be the Leaf
Mar 16, 2011
6,157
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It's just a bit of an aside really isn't it. Bethesda games have been as popular and thier npcs barely ackowledge you as a friend.

The only romance I have thought was well written was Alastair's which made you actually care about the outcome of your journey, but then he was kind of an awesome character all round. I have heard Morrigans was well written too.

Mass Effect's just aren't worth mentioning in both games really. They could make it so your characters become a bit closer before anything happens.

I certainly don't buy Bioware games for the romances.
 

Argonian alchemist

Master-level alchemist
May 5, 2011
663
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Yes, I always looked after Morrigan in combat because of the relationship, even though she couldn't actually permanently die, It still made everything a lot more personal.

I love the romance options with Bioware, they are the best at it. As far as know anyway.
 

Argonian alchemist

Master-level alchemist
May 5, 2011
663
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Casual Shinji said:
The romance subplot isn't really the problem.

It's those stereotypical Bioware-love interests that I'm getting tired of. Mainly the shy nerd girl.
There wasn't a shy nerd girl in dragon age: origins... You had Leliana who was a semi-crazy, socially awkward posh girl.

And then there was Morrigan, the moody emo girl...
 

Subbies

New member
Dec 11, 2010
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Just like you said, I appreciate what they're trying to do and once they get good at it it would be great. But for now it's just dull and doesn't add much. Give them time, Rome wasn't built in a day either.
 

StormShaun

The Basement has been unleashed!
Feb 1, 2009
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It makes it much more intresting then just the main plot it also gives you and Commander Sheperd somebody to care about, its really nice.
 

seditary

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Aug 17, 2008
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Um, when was the last time a Bioware game didn't have romance subplots?

I can't remember any offhand, certainly none I likely played that much so I don't have any basis as to whether not having them included would be beneficial.
 

lostlambda

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May 19, 2011
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i dont think that it helps the story too much but it would be bland with out it witch is a problem with some games. as in all the characters just hang around each other because they want to kill the same thing you do. it also help make the player fell like they are contributing to their character rather then just helping him take aim and kill
 

gizmo2300

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Jul 10, 2009
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I really felt invested in the Isabela character of Dragon Age 2 :) That being said, I got a little confused when most of the other team-mate characters also tried to get into my pants o_o
 

Gobmech

New member
Sep 11, 2008
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Well, I think the concept itself is brilliant, but it takes a lot of effort to execute properly. First of all, I think the designers must use their personal experiences to develop the plots, so that they are believable. This also means that there should be romance sub-plots that are impossible to resolve etc. Love is one of the very most complicated things in our world

Also, in many cases (especiialy Dragon Age 2!), what the game really needs for a good romance plot is characters that are more believable, which takes a lot of conceptualization and development effort during the development of the game.
 

varulfic

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Jul 12, 2008
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The romance subplots, when done right, are my favorite parts of the games. True, the ones in Mass Effect are pretty weak - speak to a character three times and you're done, and then it's never referred to again. But I loved the ones in Baldurs Gate 2 and Dragon Age. Especially Baldurs Gate, which wasn't just a few dialogues but an entire story arc that ran parallel to the main plot, with several quests and plenty of character development and cute moments (I went with Jaheira). It even continued in the expansion and ended with a truly heartwarming epilogue. I wouldn't have cared half as much about that game if it wasn't for the romance.
 

Cali0602

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Aug 3, 2008
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You know what happens when you make two characters attracted to each other? They lose their sense of logic in the name of "love". Is it more realistic? Sure. But, it still presents more 'facepalm' occasions than a CNN or Fox news story.

I suppose Bioware has been keeping it relatively light and shallow so far. Romance has never been an important holding point for the plot, so I suppose as long as they maintain their status quo as a spice to what is already a decent steak, I'll be content.

(poster is not a fan of relationships, period.)