I'm clearly in the minority, but personally I find romance subplots annoying. I play these type of RPGs to save the world or have a grand adventure. If I want to get laid... Well, I play another type of game. xD
Poll: Do you think the whole romance subplot thing improves Bioware games?
- Thread starter Zhukov
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Yeah, but they were something you had to sort of dig for. You didn't have Edwin actively hitting on you.EvilPicnic said:
I thought that DA2 managed to handle the characters and romances pretty darn well. The characters are true individuals whose lives do not revolve around the main character. F.x. Aveline can get re-married and will often times do things they way she wants to, not the way you want to. And the same applies to characters like Merrill who like it or not will try to reassemble the mirror, whether or not you try to help her. But that is not to say that you cannot become a part of their lives, its just that you have a choice to do so.
Not really. It just ends up being that if you talk to a certain team member often, you get to see a very awkward "sex" cutscene. Everything else doesn't really count as part of the "romance subplot" to me, because I was going to talk to those squadmates anyway and apparently in Mass Effect, talking to someone enough times means you want to do it with them. So then you just have to have a little scene where you pick which person you really want to see the awkward sex scene with.
I used to like the Bioware romance subplots. I liked Morrigans plot in Dragon Age: Origins and although Leliana's wasn't really my cup of tea I can recognise it as being a decent story.
However, in Dragon Age II and the Mass Effect games, especially the second one, it seems like they just aren't trying and are delivering cardboard cut-out 5-minute subplots rather than the engrossing stories they used.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the EA serfdom
However, in Dragon Age II and the Mass Effect games, especially the second one, it seems like they just aren't trying and are delivering cardboard cut-out 5-minute subplots rather than the engrossing stories they used.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the EA serfdom
The "romance" in DA:O just seemed to be a haha look what I did sort of thing...Took a fair ammount of effort to get into alisters pants and afterwards it just seemed like a waste of time...One might say it was only added because they wanted it for the achievement
I personally like having the romance options. My shepard, and warden didn't have any relationships (i have a female shepard and warden, and the girls she was interested in just weren't interested back, so i stuck to having a tight knit friendship with them). Hawke on the other hand romanced merril and i got really attached to the character but after she moved in, it was just the same as any other character, except she had a new outfit and there was maybe one extra conversation along the lines of "dating merril is a bad idea".
Maybe a bit of random chance thrown into things, i mean sometimes things just don't work out in relationships, so why do these ones have to be connect the dots romance.
At the very least, i'd love it if they had more conversations. In more than a few spots in any given game, your companions have feelings and thoughts about what is going on, on your decisions, things like that. In general, i'd like it if companions talked to you about the choices you make, but i'd really like it if your decisions had an effect on the relationship. For example, say at one point the PC has to make a decision on something and the potential love interest is really against what the PC is going to do, does it seem likely that a sweet word and chatting afterwords will make them fall in love with the PC despite that?
Oh! another thing i would like to see is an additional sub-story spawn or conversations that will only happen from being in a romance. You know, something that shows that you are in a relationship with them.
Anyway, just my thoughts.
Maybe a bit of random chance thrown into things, i mean sometimes things just don't work out in relationships, so why do these ones have to be connect the dots romance.
At the very least, i'd love it if they had more conversations. In more than a few spots in any given game, your companions have feelings and thoughts about what is going on, on your decisions, things like that. In general, i'd like it if companions talked to you about the choices you make, but i'd really like it if your decisions had an effect on the relationship. For example, say at one point the PC has to make a decision on something and the potential love interest is really against what the PC is going to do, does it seem likely that a sweet word and chatting afterwords will make them fall in love with the PC despite that?
Oh! another thing i would like to see is an additional sub-story spawn or conversations that will only happen from being in a romance. You know, something that shows that you are in a relationship with them.
Anyway, just my thoughts.
It could theoretically work, but is frequently done wrong. Shep, for instance, makes sense as having romance options, but not with people under his or her command except in the case of some flavors of renegade. Dragon age sometimes works - morrigan, anders, and alistair at least tend to have interesting stories, mostly because they might not have happy endings. (The emphasis on giving romances that would probably not end well or traditionally cookie cutter happy endings, notably jack and tali, is endlessly annoying to me because it subordinates telling a good story to sad wish fulfillment.)
I've only played the triss path in the witcher, but from what I saw witcher did it better again. (As does atlus.)
I've only played the triss path in the witcher, but from what I saw witcher did it better again. (As does atlus.)
I haven't played enough Bioware games to say. Based on assumption and what I know of the Neverwinter Nights series, it tends to be a fun diversion, but not deep enough to be perfectly satisfying.
In any case, romance in an RPG can be good if the story calls for it, so it should be done well! Why half-ass something like that?
In any case, romance in an RPG can be good if the story calls for it, so it should be done well! Why half-ass something like that?
Meh, DA2 romances were boring as hell. initially went for that pirate chick with a big arse, of course, it was only casual sex for her, and with only one line of dialogue, I had the jailbait warming me bed. Serah Hawke is a pimp, yo!
Mass Effect was well-done in my opinion, the conversation felt richer than DA2. I'll leave at that.
Mass Effect was well-done in my opinion, the conversation felt richer than DA2. I'll leave at that.
On the whole? Yes, I do. While Bioware's stories tend to range from average to quite good, the main strength in their games (I feel) are their characters. Whether this is what the characters do in reaction to the story, each other, or you, Bioware has a knack for making them very interesting, even human. Even if the characters aren't humans themselvesZhukov said:
Romance adds another layer of interest onto the characters if done properly, and I always think that's a good thing. Do they do it boringly or just creepily sometimes? Sure. Jacob, Carth, Anomen, Aerie.. they were all pretty weird or just boring "I LUVZ YOU CUZ...CUZ....CUZ I DO", but sometimes they make extremely good ones... like Viconia, Merrill ('specially her RivalMance), Garrus, Tali (shut up, I find it incredibly sweet!), Dawn Star, Alistair.. And then there are some ho-hum ones that have great moments in them... like, what is the easiest way to save Bastilla from the Dark Side that doesn't involve fighting or persuasion points? Point out she's being evil? Remember her Jedi-ness? Your own anguished declaration of "WAHH BUT I WUV WOO"? Heck no. Just "Did you love me, or didn't you? And if you did.. would you really kill me?" D'awwww.
I'd like to address this one directly, as I see it pretty often:Zhukov said:
So what? 95% of character development arcs for the games have very little to do with the main plot, except as a device that forces the character to realize they might not have a lot of time to change who they are because they'll die if they lose to the bad guy. Does this make it less interesting as drama? No, I really don't think it does. While yes I think it is cool when they DO figure into the main plot, I just don't see that as a requirement for emotional payoff.
I'm glad you're not in charge of these things, I'd rather not have a RomCom romance plot in my games. While SOME of the romances they make are rather empty infodumps followed by "I think you're cute" with some sexy time thrown in, there are many, many that do not follow that. In fact there are several that punish you for having sexZhukov said:
If Bethesda could give us romances (or even friendships/loyalties) in their games they would rock so hard their game releases would have to be measured on the Richter Scale.
Absolutely the romances add a great element to the game experience. BG2 was the best implementation of it as, unlike KotOR, JE, ME(2) and DAO/2, you had to adventure with your heart's desire to progress the relationship, rather than be able to pursue it (I believe) entirely in the interim between action. There was also always a risk they would up and leave if you did or said things they disapproved of.
What this meant was that you might choose the NPC because of the PC's romantic interest in them, instead of their abilities. They might even be weaker/detrimental to your party configuration (Aeria anyone?). You might find their death much harder than others and reload or pump all your healing resources into their well being (not the case from KotOR onwards when people just stand up after the fight). Or you might choose a party configuration and through adventuring grow to like that character unexpectedly. Combined with the good/evil party member friction (eg. Korgan and Kheldorn in the same party...yeah!) it made for incredible relationships and interactions.
What that further added was replayability...as characters didn't level when they weren't in your active party gaining XP, there would come a point where it was no longer viable using other party members so you really invest in these characters, developing their skills in tandem to complement each other and benefit your whole party. Combine that with the bereaved and fragile Jaheira, the sensitive and inexperienced Aeria or the passionate and erotic Viconia for example and BGII is an unforgettable, life-changing RPG. You could replay the game as an evil drow-loving warrior, a heroic elf loving mage or a neutral nature worshiper just to see the difference romance plots and interactions. Not so with ME(2) or DAO/2.
Absolutely the romances add a great element to the game experience. BG2 was the best implementation of it as, unlike KotOR, JE, ME(2) and DAO/2, you had to adventure with your heart's desire to progress the relationship, rather than be able to pursue it (I believe) entirely in the interim between action. There was also always a risk they would up and leave if you did or said things they disapproved of.
What this meant was that you might choose the NPC because of the PC's romantic interest in them, instead of their abilities. They might even be weaker/detrimental to your party configuration (Aeria anyone?). You might find their death much harder than others and reload or pump all your healing resources into their well being (not the case from KotOR onwards when people just stand up after the fight). Or you might choose a party configuration and through adventuring grow to like that character unexpectedly. Combined with the good/evil party member friction (eg. Korgan and Kheldorn in the same party...yeah!) it made for incredible relationships and interactions.
What that further added was replayability...as characters didn't level when they weren't in your active party gaining XP, there would come a point where it was no longer viable using other party members so you really invest in these characters, developing their skills in tandem to complement each other and benefit your whole party. Combine that with the bereaved and fragile Jaheira, the sensitive and inexperienced Aeria or the passionate and erotic Viconia for example and BGII is an unforgettable, life-changing RPG. You could replay the game as an evil drow-loving warrior, a heroic elf loving mage or a neutral nature worshiper just to see the difference romance plots and interactions. Not so with ME(2) or DAO/2.
Well it would be nice if the romances tied more directly into the main story and were still quite present after the sex.
Yes, I absolutely think it improves the games. Granted, the way Bioware does it is far from perfect, but at least they're trying and they really are doing better with each title.