Poll: Do you think you can convert a believer?
- Thread starter NickKuroshi0
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I have done in the past, so yes, I suppose.
On three separate occasions now I've received private messages on a different forum that I go on from people thanking me for talking them into giving up their religion.
On three separate occasions now I've received private messages on a different forum that I go on from people thanking me for talking them into giving up their religion.
the question is how far are you willing to go to coerce your victim into conversion. moraly questionable Europeans and Arabs during the crusades were able to convert many people, usually at the point of a sword.
let me shut off my ethical compass, and immunity from the international criminal court,and LOTS OF TIME and I could make the entire planet whatever religion I want.
let me shut off my ethical compass, and immunity from the international criminal court,and LOTS OF TIME and I could make the entire planet whatever religion I want.
I used to use Pascal's wager but then I stopped. Once I reached around 17 I think I started to realise what a bad argument it is.crudus said:
I think converting someone is possible (though I probably couldn't do it) I think it all depends on how convincing the person attempting this is (based on charisma and intelligence) and how deep seated the belief in question is in the mind of the person who holds it.
question, why is this in gaming?
You don't believe in atheism, atheists believe in logic and scientific fact, and that the existence of a God is impossible because there isn't any facts to support the theory.NickKuroshi0 said:
OT; I doubt it, although of course there are always exceptions. The question is why would you want to? Unless you're a child or teenager, you probably aren't going to confront your beliefs unless something traumatic happens to you, such as the loss of a loved one. It just causes unnecessary conflict to argue over someone's religious beliefs.
No. I don't believe I can, I would like to if I'm being honest but I know that all I can do is provide a logical and well thought out argument for why I believe what I do and leave it at that, if people wish to agree with that view then that is nice if they don't then that is their choice however wrong I may think it is.
I don't treat a person differently because of what they believe but I will challenge it if the situation comes up, I won't go out of my way to do so however.
I don't treat a person differently because of what they believe but I will challenge it if the situation comes up, I won't go out of my way to do so however.
No way. I don't have nearly enough patience to convert somebody. Besides, the whole idea doesn't appeal to me. Strikes the wrong chords.
I don't really view agnosticism as much of a religion, either. Religions tend to be ordered things with specific belief systems, culture, traditions, and practices revolving around them. Agnosticism only falls partly under a specific belief system, typically being, "I don't believe in a god, but I can't prove that there is or isn't one."Hammeroj said:
I believe that there is intelligent life on other planets, but that doesn't mean I can prove it. It also doesn't mean it can be disproved, because at the time being we don't have the technology to do so. Does that mean that evidence of god or aliens could be proven or dis-proven at some point in the future? I think so, yes.
And yeah, I'm more than willing to say that people who believe in a god have a chance to be right. Does that mean I'll believe him just because he has an ancient magic book that says so? No.
And coming to the conclusion of, "It could be, it could also not be, there's no way you can prove it either way." does require a lot of thought. I spent the better half of my life coming to decide upon that after lots of introspective thought and studying various religions from around the world, as well as practicing one of them up until I was fourteen. I didn't just go, "Hrmm, I'm hungry, better eat." The fact that you equate the two together would be insulting if I cared more about it. I spent months and months reading and asking questions and finding out everything I could until I finally accepted what I believe in.
So, sure. We can disagree. I think that deciding upon agnosticism is a big decision. Are there people out there who are just too lazy to make up their mind and choose it? I have little doubt in that, but there are also people like me who actually take these things seriously and put in a lot of time and effort to come to what they feel is the right conclusion.
It is a decision. It is an opinion. Get over it.
Religious to atheist I say you can easily convert somebody. I've done it myself, with myself and a ton of people I know.
Atheist to religious... no way. Never heard of it happen before, except for those ridiculous stories "rocker finds God" stories.
EDIT: Actually I remember Dave Mustaine is a born again Christian, but that doesn't really count, as much as I like his music I have to say he definitely isn't the smartest guy.
Atheist to religious... no way. Never heard of it happen before, except for those ridiculous stories "rocker finds God" stories.
EDIT: Actually I remember Dave Mustaine is a born again Christian, but that doesn't really count, as much as I like his music I have to say he definitely isn't the smartest guy.
I think that we all have a right to our opinion but also the right to defend and present your ideals to others in a calm way (which is very hard at times) And if you just so happen to open someones eyes to at least understand what you think then thats fine if they choose to stay with there own truths then thats fine. We all think many things and belief them and choose to believe them for there logic or some other reason and that is not anyone elses right to destroy or dispute your belief.
See this is why political correctness goes so mad these days, nobody else can respect others views - if people want to live in ignorance of reality then let them - it's not your business to interfere and it's pretty rare that they'll actually do any harm.Hammeroj said:
If someone is preaching something you don't want to hear to you - then sure, you can be as much as dick to them as you like, I can agree there but if someone has some belief in god - no matter how non-sensual, then you should just leave them to it - it's not like they're hurting you.
Only the people that care enough to try to change what others believe in are tyrants; power hungry and intolerant.
Shouting "you are wrong" won't convert anybody and will just piss them off to the point that they will completely ignore any valid points you may have.
I think you could convert somebody using logical arguments, but it really depends on the person you are trying to convert. Some people take their beliefs and make them the most important part of who they are, and those people wouldn't be easily converted or converted at all.
Although many atheists do become atheists because of logic or scientific facts, those aren't really necessary to be considered an atheist though.
Also, if somebody "believes" in scientific facts, they are doing it wrong.
I think you could convert somebody using logical arguments, but it really depends on the person you are trying to convert. Some people take their beliefs and make them the most important part of who they are, and those people wouldn't be easily converted or converted at all.
*Ahem*. You are closer to correct than the person you are quoting, but you are still wrong. Atheism isn't the belief in logic and/or scientific fact, it is the lack of belief in any deities. (Thus, there are people that believe in supernatural stuff like ghosts, but are still considered atheists, for example.)The-Epicly-Named-Man said:
Although many atheists do become atheists because of logic or scientific facts, those aren't really necessary to be considered an atheist though.
Also, if somebody "believes" in scientific facts, they are doing it wrong.
Depends on the level of devotion they have. If they ar enot overly religious (As most aren't) I'd likely be able to sway their opinion. If they are fanatical of course not.
I personally don't like any side's mythology so I made up my own which I think could be a contender in the realm of religion. If you live well and wholesome, your soul shall go to paradise where 72 virgins await to assist you. If you die with bravery in battle, you go to Valhalla and train with Odin to defend Olympus. If you die a coward, you go and suffer in hell. Zues and his brother Jupiter reign over the council of gods, which includes Allah, Jesus, Xenu, Mythra, Sheeva, and many others who watch over our existence but very rarely interfere with our lives.
Some religious fellows will say that that is nonsense, for which I reply is it any more ridiculous than a man living in a whale (or fish depending on how it is told), a guy parting the seas, a bearded bloke floating into the sky after being ressurected, it raining frogs, a rock from paradise landing in the desert, people being overtaken by alien thetans, magic underwear, etc.?
I personally don't like any side's mythology so I made up my own which I think could be a contender in the realm of religion. If you live well and wholesome, your soul shall go to paradise where 72 virgins await to assist you. If you die with bravery in battle, you go to Valhalla and train with Odin to defend Olympus. If you die a coward, you go and suffer in hell. Zues and his brother Jupiter reign over the council of gods, which includes Allah, Jesus, Xenu, Mythra, Sheeva, and many others who watch over our existence but very rarely interfere with our lives.
Some religious fellows will say that that is nonsense, for which I reply is it any more ridiculous than a man living in a whale (or fish depending on how it is told), a guy parting the seas, a bearded bloke floating into the sky after being ressurected, it raining frogs, a rock from paradise landing in the desert, people being overtaken by alien thetans, magic underwear, etc.?