Poll: Does Science belong in a Fantasy Novel?

[Chase Yojimbo]

I am a writer with a powerful structure in writing. I already have a good story, characters, and everything. I am in the middle of writing the books now, and I want to ask the escapist. Do you believe it is a good idea to put Science in a world that is purely fantasy? Giving a reason why magic exists, and other things of the same kind? The theories are not backed up by math, just giving a reason to why it exists, not putting the theoretical paper into the book.

Some may believe that I may be pulling a 'Lucas', with Mediclorience. I assure you that my magical theory is starting right at the beginning of the book.

Also for clearification, the setting is modern day with religious belief in the magic itself, which I have called Aether. I would go further because I love telling people about my book, but I would rather people read the rest of the book. I will add that no weaponry such as guns exist, because of the magic and its ability to thwart such things anyways; as well as no vehicles due to a certain mythical beast.

 

[Serenegoose]

Don't go into too much detail. Either you derail your book explaining how everything works, which is boring, or you mess up the science along the line and then you've just got duff science explaining something that breaks reality anyway. I'm also writing a book that makes key use of magic, but has technology developing alongside it, and I'm keen that magic 'just works' according to its own rules. If you want to outline those rules, knock yourself out, that's fine - and if you want practitioners of magic to take a scientific approach to magic that's fine - but don't get into the fine details on it, because it's not compelling.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

World of Warcraft, Arcanum, City of Bones, and hold on...even Twilight did it.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

No because then it is not Fantasy it is Sci-fi. In Fantasy things are not explained they are just t here. If are explaining the magic then you are changing the genre from Fantasy to Sci-Fi as by definition it is also no longer magic. As magic is use of the supernatural. Like "Magic" in 40k is a psychic force and people who use it are called psykers. That is why Science can't be in Fantasy although what you are doing is not Science it is more of a backround to it. Well atleast that is what it seems to me.

 

[Starnerf]

I think as long as it's established early on that magic is commonly known and accepted in the world then it shouldn't need an in-depth explanation. It's good to let the reader know at least what the magic is based on, though. The reason people didn't like the Midichlorians was because the Force had been built up as a purely spiritual thing and then it was retconned with a scientific explanation. It became less about "This guy was destined to be great" and more "This guy just happens to have more symbiotic bacteria."

Basically, if you want to explain it, do so early on. Let the reader know that's how it works so they aren't misled. Unless how magic works is supposed to be a surprise, in which case do whatever you want.

 

[blind_dead_mcjones]

terry pratchett has been using using scientific theories and concepts as a 'backbone' for magic and fantasy is his discworld series for ages, and he makes it work rather i might add

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

it can be done. it can even work well. but it's hard to pull off. there's a very fine line between a good sci-fantasy and a crappy book with magic and bad science.

 

[TheAmazingHobo]

Ask yourself the same question you should ask yourself with EVERY aspect of your story:
Does it contribute to what you want to do in a meaningfull way ?
If yes, do it, if no, don´t do it.
Ultimately, it´s your book and you should know best.

 

[Korenith]

I am a writer with a powerful structure in writing. I already have a good story, characters, and everything. I am in the middle of writing the books now, and I want to ask the escapist. Do you believe it is a good idea to put Science in a world that is purely fantasy? Giving a reason why magic exists, and other things of the same kind? The theories are not backed up by math, just giving a reason to why it exists, not putting the theoretical paper into the book.

Some may believe that I may be pulling a 'Lucas', with Mediclorience. I assure you that my magical theory is starting right at the beginning of the book.

Also for clearification, the setting is modern day with religious belief in the magic itself, which I have called Aether. I would go further because I love telling people about my book, but I would rather people read the rest of the book. I will add that no weaponry such as guns exist, because of the magic and its ability to thwart such things anyways; as well as no vehicles due to a certain mythical beast.

My suggestion is read Ian Irvine's Well of Echoes series (might want to read a view from the mirror series first but it's not essential). There science and magic intertwine really well and never ruin immersion. If you want to do it then definitely do, but check out the writers who have succeeded in this style first so you get an idea of what works and use Lucas and others as your example of what doesn't, then add your own creative asthetics to it to make it your own.

My last piece of advice is ignore people who try to box things in with genre rules. If it feels right then go for it, especially if your goal is artistic rather than commercial. Literature only expands by people incorporating new ideas and trying different things so feel free to break the "rules" just make sure you have a good reason for doing so.

 

[Chase Yojimbo]

The replies have been positive so far actually. I decided I will continue with the scientific theories, since it is actually in connection to a Sci-fi novel that I have created. In fact, everything that I have written is connected.

 

[ThoseTwoDudes]

I like science in fantasy. Hell, the Hindu Vedas themselves had a weapon that was suspiciously similar to a nuke (Although it was a bow. I guess it is a bow version of the Fat Man from Fallout?). Anyway, I recommend that you go through with this. It'll help with inspiration for my own science-fantasy story I'm making, I guess.

 

[BlackWidower]

Go for it. In my mind the whole "answer to a question no one asked" bullshit that people give for why midichlorians was a bad idea tells me they would rather the writers were more lazy. I think it's a good idea personally, and as a reader who likes to see some realism in sci-fi/fantasy, and as a writer who intends to write stories that take place in this reality, I wish more people did that.

Some of my favourate sci-fis have such soft science it actually takes me out of the experience. Like Star Wars lightsabers. You can't have a beam of light that's about yay long, and you can't have a beam of light that stops other light. Then there's Star Trek with Warp Drives that propel ships by expanding space over there, and compressing space over there with a device somewhere in the middle, with no explanation as to how it can magically reach out; natural phenomena that can travel at faster than light speeds, which are impossible; Shields that have an emitter over here that creates a shield precisely way the fuck over there with nothing in between to facilitate the shield; transporters that can disintegrate something thousands of miles away; and sensors that can detect objects light years away right now as if it's bending time or something.

Where was I? Oh yes, just because you use the word magic, doesn't mean it actually has to be magical. You can explain, and not get crucified for it.

 

[BlackWidower]

The replies have been positive so far actually. I decided I will continue with the scientific theories, since it is actually in connection to a Sci-fi novel that I have created. In fact, everything that I have written is connected.

Dude, is this being professionally published? What's it called?

 

[JJMUG]

I am a writer with a powerful structure in writing. I already have a good story, characters, and everything. I am in the middle of writing the books now, and I want to ask the escapist. Do you believe it is a good idea to put Science in a world that is purely fantasy? Giving a reason why magic exists, and other things of the same kind? The theories are not backed up by math, just giving a reason to why it exists, not putting the theoretical paper into the book.

Some may believe that I may be pulling a 'Lucas', with Mediclorience. I assure you that my magical theory is starting right at the beginning of the book.

Also for clearification, the setting is modern day with religious belief in the magic itself, which I have called Aether. I would go further because I love telling people about my book, but I would rather people read the rest of the book. I will add that no weaponry such as guns exist, because of the magic and its ability to thwart such things anyways; as well as no vehicles due to a certain mythical beast.

There is a whole genre called Science Fantasy.

 

[KefkaCultist]

the Shadowrun (the table-top and snes game, not the crappy 360/pc game) background merges scifi with fantasy pretty well. Theres magic, elves, orcs, and dragons but it has a sciency spin to it as well

 

[Aerowaves]

What are you trying to write? Are you trying to keep it within a "fantasy" setting or are you trying to write a story that makes sense to you personally and will to a reader? No need to keep it within a defined genre. Experiment! But you could probably incorporate science quite easily. No need for them to be mutually exclusive.

I would not try to explain "magic" scientifically, however (a la midichlorians - even if they were explained thoroughly and not just tossed in there because it made ludicrous sense to bloody Lucas). Hint at the origins and the process by all means, but keep it somewhat fantastical and mysterious, otherwise (imo) it would get boring.

 

[MetaMop]

Personally, I like some logical explanation in magic; you don't need to apply the rules of our world to your fantasy world, but consistency and some explanation is good. You don't need to work out every detail. In fact, even our society doesn't have complete understanding of the world we inhabit, so not everything needs to be understood.
I prefer magic that revolves around superstition and pseudo-understanding, rather than people summoning fire just because they can. Ignorance is the key factor to a believable fantasy setting.

 

[Chase Yojimbo]

The replies have been positive so far actually. I decided I will continue with the scientific theories, since it is actually in connection to a Sci-fi novel that I have created. In fact, everything that I have written is connected.

Dude, is this being professionally published? What's it called?

For the Fantasy Book with Sci-Fi Elements, I am calling it the Sage Series, while the entire series is called 'The End of Dreams', or rather, TEoD. I have been working on the stories of about 17 books so far for about 4 years, and im finally able to write the story I actually want. It will still be a while, but I hope to have a few books published by the end of 2011, which will be the Original Trilogy as I call it. After the Trilogy is done, I intend to publish a different series with the same structure and history called 'The Sage Series', which will actually turns out to define most of the books, including the third book of the Trilogy.
I would absolutely love to go into detail, but I would rather have people read my words from a book and not from online.

 

[Chase Yojimbo]

What are you trying to write? Are you trying to keep it within a "fantasy" setting or are you trying to write a story that makes sense to you personally and will to a reader? No need to keep it within a defined genre. Experiment! But you could probably incorporate science quite easily. No need for them to be mutually exclusive.

I would not try to explain "magic" scientifically, however (a la midichlorians - even if they were explained thoroughly and not just tossed in there because it made ludicrous sense to bloody Lucas). Hint at the origins and the process by all means, but keep it somewhat fantastical and mysterious, otherwise (imo) it would get boring.

The books that I am writing range from Fantasy to Sci-Fi, constantly dealing with the supernatural on a god scale. The Sage Series is my Fantasy Series set with Modern Day technology, except for vehicles and weapons (Such as guns) because of the founding of Aether (Which is a magical force involving Pure Energy retaining the shape of Matter), and the help of a certain Mythical Beasts that fly.

As I've said, would love to talk about it, but would rather people read the book.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Well sure, as long as you don't try and explain the magic with the science.