Um, yeah. I can actually see why she was pissed. If a female friend started talking about my brother's junk compared to mine I'd be uncomfortable too.Cheshire the Cat said:
Poll: "Don't look at me when I wear skimpy clothes!"
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The girl is indefensibly an idiot, but I wonder if her idiocy is really as bad as it seems; maybe the guy who was staring at her was unattractive and creepy. Maybe if it happened to be a hot guy staring she would grin and hope he asks for her number. Thus her only real sin is misinterpreting her own frustration:
True emotion: "Damnit it was the loser who noticed, am I not hot enough to get hot guys to look at me?"
The way she translated it: "Damnit you perv quit staring at me holy crap guys are creepy jerks."
A smart girl who dressed that way would probably react internally with mild frustration but not aggressive anger, having acknowledged that all guys would want to stare at her hot scantly-clad body, and not just the guys she wants to stare, and if she spoke at all she would give the loser the benefit of a sarcastic smirk and a mean little quip, "Not a chance kid, now go jerk off." She would know this remark would have the secondary benefit of reaching the ears of any attractive male eavesdroppers, and subsequently impressing them with her cleverness and confidence.
So yeah, my assessment is (assuming her victim was, indeed, unworthy of her attention) that while she was certainly short-sighted and reacted poorly, she's no bigot.
True emotion: "Damnit it was the loser who noticed, am I not hot enough to get hot guys to look at me?"
The way she translated it: "Damnit you perv quit staring at me holy crap guys are creepy jerks."
A smart girl who dressed that way would probably react internally with mild frustration but not aggressive anger, having acknowledged that all guys would want to stare at her hot scantly-clad body, and not just the guys she wants to stare, and if she spoke at all she would give the loser the benefit of a sarcastic smirk and a mean little quip, "Not a chance kid, now go jerk off." She would know this remark would have the secondary benefit of reaching the ears of any attractive male eavesdroppers, and subsequently impressing them with her cleverness and confidence.
So yeah, my assessment is (assuming her victim was, indeed, unworthy of her attention) that while she was certainly short-sighted and reacted poorly, she's no bigot.
McNinja said:
Damn, I was going to post that video.
But yeah, I have no opinion on this matter that isn't best summarized by this video. No, it's not good to objectify someone, but both parties need to realize that there are measures they need to take in order to prevent creepy ogling. Namely, self-control on the part of the would-be ogler, and a bit of modesty from the... oglee, I guess?
I concur. *MONOCLE MAN, FIGHTING THE EVIL THAT IS NON-DAPPER OR PROPER LADIES, MONOCLE MAN!*Maxtro said:
Its in human nature, guys only have ONE place woman are attracted too [sexually, of course.], and thats under our boxers, but woman have two places to cover, and for some reason, some like to show them off or barely hide these regions for attention from males, handsome or not.
If it were a guy wearing a speedo, other guys would find it disgusting, but I can guarantee at least one female there would stare.
Again, don't dress skimpily if you don't want attention, negative or not.
Now picture a man with no shirt on getting stared at by both men and women (an unfortuneately common sight among the chavvier members of the British community), somehow I doubt that their thoughts would be 'don't look at me!' and would be more along the lines of 'check out my gunboats' (perhaps with an extra 'bitches' thrown on the end for emphasis).
In the case mentioned by the OP I would turn around to the girl in question and ask her to get off of her highhorse, yes, men will stare at a woman if she wears revealing clothing (that's up there in terms of suprising revelations with 'getting a swift kick in the testicles really bloody hurts') just as I am certain that women will stare at a good looking guy in a form fitting short or tight jeans (that's sort of how our brains are wired to function unless you're more sexually respressed than the Victorians and Puritans combined).
In short, if you don't want guys staring at your tits then don't have them hanging out of your top.
But what about the arguement of 'but I should be able to wear what I want!', well, you can. Just don't be suprised when guys wish to appreciate your...assets when you elect to wear something that shows them off (please explain to me the logic by which someone who doesn't want to be stared at wears clothing that displays as much flesh as possible?).
Freedom of clothing or avoiding unwanted male attention, make your choice because, sadly, you cna't always have both.
In the case mentioned by the OP I would turn around to the girl in question and ask her to get off of her highhorse, yes, men will stare at a woman if she wears revealing clothing (that's up there in terms of suprising revelations with 'getting a swift kick in the testicles really bloody hurts') just as I am certain that women will stare at a good looking guy in a form fitting short or tight jeans (that's sort of how our brains are wired to function unless you're more sexually respressed than the Victorians and Puritans combined).
In short, if you don't want guys staring at your tits then don't have them hanging out of your top.
But what about the arguement of 'but I should be able to wear what I want!', well, you can. Just don't be suprised when guys wish to appreciate your...assets when you elect to wear something that shows them off (please explain to me the logic by which someone who doesn't want to be stared at wears clothing that displays as much flesh as possible?).
Freedom of clothing or avoiding unwanted male attention, make your choice because, sadly, you cna't always have both.
I'm going to avoid repeating exactly what almost everyone on this thread so far has said and just say that this is something I gave up trying to understand a long time ago.
While any number of men will support you on this matter, the fact is that 99% of women seem to adhere to a system of logic more convoluted than the metal gear storyline. As a result, looking at the body of a woman who wears clothing specifically designed to make you look at her body is wrong.
It's fine for women to look at men's bodies though. There's no justification for this. It just is.
While any number of men will support you on this matter, the fact is that 99% of women seem to adhere to a system of logic more convoluted than the metal gear storyline. As a result, looking at the body of a woman who wears clothing specifically designed to make you look at her body is wrong.
It's fine for women to look at men's bodies though. There's no justification for this. It just is.
To assume a women is wearing skimpy clothing for other people and not herself is why the "double standard" of men not displaying the same response exists in the first place. A women that isn't wearing much clothing might be doing it because it's hot outside, or because she likes the look of the clothing, not always because she wants people to look at her. Women are seen as objects to the extent that people feel completely justified that a woman should "cover up" if she doesn't want to be harassed. How could that possibly make sense?
Is it really right that a woman must always be reminded that she is a woman and not a person? Just like female rape victim weren't "asking for it" this woman was not putting herself out there for an attack, she was just wearing what she wanted to wear. The fault of it lies with the man who could not see her as a person, but as something there for him to look at.
Is it really right that a woman must always be reminded that she is a woman and not a person? Just like female rape victim weren't "asking for it" this woman was not putting herself out there for an attack, she was just wearing what she wanted to wear. The fault of it lies with the man who could not see her as a person, but as something there for him to look at.
I'm going to let you in on a secret.
When a woman says 'Stop looking at me!' it's not because the guy is looking.
What she REALLY means is 'Stop being creepy.'
Looking is fine. But being creepy about it is not.
How is this not obvious to everyone who has ever lived?
As for women )or men) showing skin not being looked at? Seriously? You're trying to argue against the sexual drive that allows the propogation of our species. When evolution and the survival of your race program the response to look... you're arguing against the behaviors that are proven to be the best hope for survival of your race over thousands of years. Trial and error proved you to be wrong before you were born.
Looking is fine, natural, and fun. Being creepy is NOT.
When a woman says 'Stop looking at me!' it's not because the guy is looking.
What she REALLY means is 'Stop being creepy.'
Looking is fine. But being creepy about it is not.
How is this not obvious to everyone who has ever lived?
As for women )or men) showing skin not being looked at? Seriously? You're trying to argue against the sexual drive that allows the propogation of our species. When evolution and the survival of your race program the response to look... you're arguing against the behaviors that are proven to be the best hope for survival of your race over thousands of years. Trial and error proved you to be wrong before you were born.
Looking is fine, natural, and fun. Being creepy is NOT.
Have you watched TV any time in the last 5 years?Takumashii said:
Most women enjoy ogling muscular topless guys just as much as most men enjoy ogling fit skimpily dressed gals.
Being looked at is completely normal when you fit either of those descriptions. Being stared at is rude from the person staring, but we already knew that there's quite a few rude people around. You just mainly avoid and ignore them and if it bothers you too much you tell them to stop, at which point if they continue doing it it becomes harassment and you should be able to call the cops on them if you feel the need.
Staring is rude, but it's a risk you take when dressing skimpily (and don't compare that to rape. Staring is rude, raping isn't just rude it's vile and criminal). If it offends you to the degree that you flip out and slap someone then you shouldn't be taking that risk.
Nailed it.FireAza said:I'm sure she wouldn't have had a problem if it was a good-looking guy doing the staring instead of the creepy guy. "if a good-looking guy compliments a girl, she's flattered, if an ugly guy does the same thing, he's a creep" basically. Rock on hypocrisy, you crazy bastard.
If she wears something that draws attention to herself, then she will get attention. If she's so concerned about people that look at her, then fuck you and wear something else. It's not that much emotional trauma to cover up your tits once and a while.
If you're GOING to wear skimpy clothes you don't get to decide what's right when a person looks at you. If a guy goes into the mall wearing short shorts and a tube top people would call him an idiot for complaining when people stare, women have no right think they should be treated any differently.
If you're going to dress skimpy, PEOPLE WILL LOOK. that's called the CHAIN OF EVENTS.
As well, dressing skimpy is a way of garnering attention . . . the whole point of tiny shorts, high heeled shoes and skimpy tops is to GET attention, so trying to say that people (oh I'm sorry MEN since we're the root of all evil) staring is somehow wrong when you're dressed TO GET ATTENTION, is just stupid.
If you're going to dress skimpy, PEOPLE WILL LOOK. that's called the CHAIN OF EVENTS.
As well, dressing skimpy is a way of garnering attention . . . the whole point of tiny shorts, high heeled shoes and skimpy tops is to GET attention, so trying to say that people (oh I'm sorry MEN since we're the root of all evil) staring is somehow wrong when you're dressed TO GET ATTENTION, is just stupid.
What would your reactions be if, say, a male surfer was getting checked out by women because of a tight fitting wetsuit? Would it be his fault?
Maybe it was a hot day, and this flautist felt more comfortable wearing less clothing.
Alternatively:
-political correctness gone wrong
-double standards
-friend-zoned
-women never go for the nice guys who cosplay Naruto
-foreveralone.jpg
Thought so..
Maybe it was a hot day, and this flautist felt more comfortable wearing less clothing.
Alternatively:
-political correctness gone wrong
-double standards
-friend-zoned
-women never go for the nice guys who cosplay Naruto
-foreveralone.jpg
Thought so..
Not staring at a girl in revealing clothing is in my book, simply a question of politeness.
People have no intrinsic right whatsoever to dictate which direction other people can point their eyes.
People have no intrinsic right whatsoever to dictate which direction other people can point their eyes.
Are you saying that a woman should be flattered when she is felt up on a train? It was done because she was attractive wasn't it? The problem is how people rationalize staring at someone. If you're thinking you have the right to stare at someone just because they are dressed a certain way you are not thinking of them as a person, but as something to stare at. You're not acknowledging anyone when you look at them in that way.Zetion said:
I personally don't watch much TV, and I probably don't have to tell you that it is not always an accurate representation of society, but I'll mention it anyway. The "risk" you mention was the point of my previous post. There is no "risk" in wearing a shirt that looks one way as opposed to another one. The risk comes from other people. Why wouldn't I compare it to rape, when the same excuses for it are used? Women will wear the clothes they want to wear, just like men, but women have to take the "risks" that come with it?Hagi said:
Are you a woman? Because I don't know of any guy who wouldn't be at the very least flattered to have a woman ogling him in his wetsuit -- especially not when the guy is an athlete. This post just shows a severe misunderstanding of male psychology.similar.squirrel said:
OT:
It's like the Dave Chapelle video says; if you go around wearing a cop's uniform, even though the clothing doesn't make you a cop, don't be surprised if you're mistaken for one. Likewise, if you go around wearing a whore's uniform[footnote]in the terms of the standup bit; a more appropriate phrase for this thread may be "the uniform of a person who wants to be ogled"[/footnote], it doesn't make you a whore, but since you're wearing the uniform, you can't blame people for thinking you are one.
In other words, don't dress in a way that entices people to look if you don't want them to look. This isn't "blaming the victim" or anything else along those lines, this is using common sense.