Poll: Dovahkiin vs. Nerevarine
- Thread starter Jaeke
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but you don't know your nerevarine until you're told, so "I am The One and I didn't even know it." still applies. plus nerevarine has a mortal soul, dovahkiin has an IMMORTAL dragon soul. he'd reincarnate instead of going to atherius, come back, grow up, and get revenge. well, i would, and that's only if s/he somehow lost the first time, which i doubt.gideonkain said:
Halyah said:You forgot that Dovahkiin is also blessed by the Aedra Akatosh, which is why the skyrim MC is dovahkiin to begin with. I'd say that's a clear plus since Aedra aren't likely to screw you over like the Daedra are.Jaeke said:
If you want to go even more detail, you have to consider the fact that TES adopts a 'Godhead' model when it comes to gods.
If the term is unfamiliar, think of the Christian theological idea that God is split up into three separate but indivisible entities.
The TES version is more Platonic, that is it has all deities start with a super element of Chaos and Order both combined into one non-entity, state-of-universe. Most creation myths in TES start with a split between this Order and Chaos, the former called Anu/Anuiel, the latter called Padomay/Sithis in the more common Man and Mer tongues. Thus, we logically assume that all entities are simply the result of a split consciousness or a great metaphysical, divine case of Existential Schizophrenia. This dialectic split will further be echoed in later deities such as Akatosh/Lorkhan and mortals later on: Mer/Man. We even see split interpretations of the same deities, like the Aldmeri view of Lorkhan as an evil trickster and the Cyro-Nordic view of Lorkhan as a benevolent creator.
With the case of Akatosh it becomes complicated though, as Akatosh is undoubtedly insane; schizophrenic. Remember the stained-glass representation of Akatosh in the Imperial chapels? He is shown a half man and half dragon. Just as Anu-Padomay split, so did Akatosh, for Lorkhan was simply one half of Akatosh's divine consciousness. When Akatosh slew Lorkhan, he committed a form of partial ego-suicide. So as we go down the line with Shezzarines who are incarnations of Shor, the Mundane incarnation of the Missing God, all can be traced back to Akatosh, and from there back to Anu. The pantheon of TES is one universal zero-sum game, where everything must add up at the end, thus Godhead. Just as Father, Son, Holy Spirit are separate parts of the same deity, all TES deities are distantly parts of another whole. Does this mean that no two deities are separate? Of course not. Some just have larger connections to others.
One more interesting thing of note is the use of several terms. Sithis, which is the chaotic force of change is evident in all things Daedric and in flux. In fact Sheogorath is described as the Sithis-Shaped Hole which appeared when Lorkhan was killed.
Nirn and Mundus, the mortal realm is both. It was designed by Lorkhan a Padomaic force, and built when the Aedra (I don't know the adjectival form of Anu
) donated pieces of themselves to build it. In this way Nirn is described as the Gray Maybe.Kaiser Jon said:
Dovahkiin and Ysmir are the same. Prior to Talos, Ysmir was King Wulfharth of Atmora. When he summoned Shor to battle Alduin after Alduin ate the years of the Nords, turning them all into babies, he learned a new Thu'um as he watched Shor and Alduin fighting. He used that Thu'um to Shout all the Nords back to adulthood, but he Shouted too many years onto himself, and he died turning to dust. His soul though became Ysmir, the Dragon of the North or the North Wind. He also became known as the Underking.
It's interesting that even though Lorkhan's/Shor's Heart was unbound from Nirn by the Nerevarine, Lorkhan would remain the Missing God and continue to persist on Nirn.
It's not really fair to compare PCs by game mechanics. Sadly the things characters can do ingame pale in comparison to what characters do in the lore.JET1971 said:
While Nevarine was the more interesting character/story the Dovakhin seems to have more raw power when taking into account balance changes between games and allow for similar equipment. If you don't take into account balance changes then of course Nerevarine would crush the Dovakhin. There is a reason they got rid of huge area affect spells, levitation, infinite permanant summons, custom spells in general, and all of the random skills.Jaeke said:In an epic duel on the high peak of the Throat of the World, between:
The Dragon-Slayer of Skyrim, Savior of the People, Dovahkiin
The Reincarnate of the greatest Dunmer General, Champion of Azura, Nerevarine
Who would win the fight?
(My money on Nerevarine
EDIT: Not on the Throat of the World, how about, in stead, a duel in the clouds where you fought Umaril in Knights of the Nine.
However I believe you are missing out the true victor of a fight between Elder Scroll protagonists. The hero of Cyrodil would beat both of them, since he has become Sheogoroth and thus has the power of a Daedric prince.
Do the potion glitch. Get two daggers up to their maximum damage, with the most powerful enchantments from elixirs. Get the assassin perk. Get both the +100% one handed perk and the +50% dual wield perk. Put on the shrouded gloves.
Sneak behind Nerevarine, press both mouse buttons, 60x damage. Nothing can survive that.
Was sneaking as OP in Morrowind as it is in Skyrim? I don't know much about morrowind, but can you duck in the middle of battle and turn invisible?
Or, if you don't want to involve stealth. Get a shield, and get the bash perks for it too. Enchant your gear so restoration costs 0 mana. Get the perk that lets healing spells restore stamina.
bash - heal - bash - heal - bash - heal. stunlock Nerevarine to death.
Sneak behind Nerevarine, press both mouse buttons, 60x damage. Nothing can survive that.
Was sneaking as OP in Morrowind as it is in Skyrim? I don't know much about morrowind, but can you duck in the middle of battle and turn invisible?
Or, if you don't want to involve stealth. Get a shield, and get the bash perks for it too. Enchant your gear so restoration costs 0 mana. Get the perk that lets healing spells restore stamina.
bash - heal - bash - heal - bash - heal. stunlock Nerevarine to death.
This is pretty much an argument over Morrowind and Skyrim combat mechanics at this point.
So IF THEY WAS REAL. Nervarine is pretty badass dude hes been around forever so he had more time to pick up new tricks. He is also a diplomat though. Nerevar was a peaceful guy for the most part. I voted Nerevarine. At this point in time the Nerevarine could prolly outfox the Dovakiin with his hundreds of years of experience. They are both favored of the gods too. Ther pretty well matched except for expierience.
So IF THEY WAS REAL. Nervarine is pretty badass dude hes been around forever so he had more time to pick up new tricks. He is also a diplomat though. Nerevar was a peaceful guy for the most part. I voted Nerevarine. At this point in time the Nerevarine could prolly outfox the Dovakiin with his hundreds of years of experience. They are both favored of the gods too. Ther pretty well matched except for expierience.
Nerevarine wins in a flat area fight, purely because he can do far more terrifying things than you can in skyrim. Including leap over cities. THATS RIGHT, LITTLE GUARDS, RUN AWAY! MY JUMPING POWERS DEMONSTRATE MY AWESOME MIGHT!Jaeke said:In an epic duel on the high peak of the Throat of the World, between:
The Dragon-Slayer of Skyrim, Savior of the People, Dovahkiin
The Reincarnate of the greatest Dunmer General, Champion of Azura, Nerevarine
Who would win the fight?
(My money on Nerevarine
EDIT: Not on the Throat of the World, how about, in stead, a duel in the clouds where you fought Umaril in Knights of the Nine.
Then you better call Bethesda up and tell them that Magnus is not part of the "lore" and remove any traces of him from the game series. Oh wait there goes the colledge of winterhold quests because you say the staff of magnus is not part of the lore. dude you are getting ridiculous.Kaiser Jon said:
Magnus is part of the lore. Magnus is the Sun, the largest hole in Aetherius and thus the largest source of magick on Nirn. That's why the Sun is on the Mage's Guild insignia. The Staff of Magnus appeared in Daggerfall and Morrowind as well. I'm not sure if it was in Arena though.JET1971 said:
The disappearance of the Dwemer was never explained in Morrowind as the developers hadn't written a good enough reason at that time. Later in a forum post I can't find at the moment, it was explained that the Dwemer all simultaneously transmuted themselves to form the brass plating for their mechanical god, Numidium or Walk-Brass Tower. This was after the Battle of Red Mountain.SLy AsymMetrY said:
The Aedra don't appear in person because I don't think they can. They gave parts of themselves to create Nirn and now exist in Aetherius. Technically you can see them if you look in the night sky (but since Bethesda has never released a full astronomy chart who knows where they are up there). To the mortal mind they take the forms of planets because mortals can't possibly perceive something that is infinite. The Aedra and their planes of Aetherius are the same, so people often call them plane(t)s.
Talos does make a brief appearance in Morrowind however in Ghostgate before the PC assaults Dagoth Ur. In one of the buildings you meet an old imperial legionnaire named Wulf who tells you that things are changing and that change is often mess. He gives you an old Septim coin that grants +1 luck I think. If you go to an Imperial Cult priestess in Ebonheart, she tells you that the old man was Talos.
Do you guys realise that even an Argonian Dovahkiin can't do anything any at all once in water? Slaughter fish could slaughter dovah, they're just one step short of Tommy Vercetti.