Poll: Dragon Age 2 'more welcoming'
- Thread starter WelshDanny
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It is dumbed down. Its focused on hack and slashy combat, with less emphasis on tactics, strategy and statistics. 3 conversation options are now clearly marked for good/neutral/bad, in case you went full retard. There is fewer tactics slots available. Positional combat is non existant. And items are marked with stars now !
oh, and lets not forget the "anime" combat animations.
oh, and lets not forget the "anime" combat animations.
I would be shocked if people who think it's been dumbed down weren't also fanatic Morrowind cultists who have a bizarre fetish for monotonous drudgery.
I expect to see complaints like "Being able to press R to loot everything on the fly is silly. I should have to pick up each individual item." "The new combat animations are gay. It should go back to two people standing still next to each other taking turns slapping each other with metal sticks while waiting 6 hours on cooldowns to actually be able to kill each other." "Healh/Mana/Energy instantly regenerating after a fight is over is terrible. I should have to sit and wait between fights for it to regenerate.".
Oh, and one more thing, let me ask you guys something. Is it REALLY that bad to have responses organized into a dialogue wheel? I mean, you're complaining that:
I expect to see complaints like "Being able to press R to loot everything on the fly is silly. I should have to pick up each individual item." "The new combat animations are gay. It should go back to two people standing still next to each other taking turns slapping each other with metal sticks while waiting 6 hours on cooldowns to actually be able to kill each other." "Healh/Mana/Energy instantly regenerating after a fight is over is terrible. I should have to sit and wait between fights for it to regenerate.".
Oh, and one more thing, let me ask you guys something. Is it REALLY that bad to have responses organized into a dialogue wheel? I mean, you're complaining that:
is somehow better than a dialogue wheel. It's not even any different? Now you're less likely to fat finger the wrong response though. Also when you hit 4 and a million different questions showed up and you had to scroll through them when you had a specific question it was a bit odd.
It's faster and more responsive.
I don't see how people figures it's dumbed down.
I've played through DA multiple times on the hardest difficulty, so I know the combat system by heart.
Pretty much everything I experienced in the demo was positive.
The core of the gameplay remains the same.
Make tank take the hits while the rogue or DPS warrior flanks and the mage heals/buffs/casts AoE, etc.
Only this time you actually get to do stuff as a rogue or warrior since abilities and stamina recharge much, much faster.
If the progression were reversed and DA1 was actually the upcoming sequel in terms of gameplay, it'd be reviled.
Imagine;
Warriors are made meatshields with only passive abilities and have stamina to use an ability like once every 30 seconds.
That ability being the taunt.
Rogues are to be made to have a lot of neat looking abilities, but all of them will be ultimately useless since auto-attacking from behind deals way more damage.
Mages will have extremely powerful AoE, no stamina dependency and will have basically unlimited lyrium potions.
Go figure.
I don't see how people figures it's dumbed down.
I've played through DA multiple times on the hardest difficulty, so I know the combat system by heart.
Pretty much everything I experienced in the demo was positive.
The core of the gameplay remains the same.
Make tank take the hits while the rogue or DPS warrior flanks and the mage heals/buffs/casts AoE, etc.
Only this time you actually get to do stuff as a rogue or warrior since abilities and stamina recharge much, much faster.
If the progression were reversed and DA1 was actually the upcoming sequel in terms of gameplay, it'd be reviled.
Imagine;
Warriors are made meatshields with only passive abilities and have stamina to use an ability like once every 30 seconds.
That ability being the taunt.
Rogues are to be made to have a lot of neat looking abilities, but all of them will be ultimately useless since auto-attacking from behind deals way more damage.
Mages will have extremely powerful AoE, no stamina dependency and will have basically unlimited lyrium potions.
Go figure.
Haven't played the demo but I've seen plenty of gameplay videos. I welcome the changes. I always found the original Dragon Age's combat to be clunky and unimpressive. With this new system it looks like I may actually enjoy fighting this time around.
And I've always been a fan of the dialogue wheel and a voice for my hero. The silent protagonist thing can work in some games but I just found it immersion breaking in Origins.
And I've always been a fan of the dialogue wheel and a voice for my hero. The silent protagonist thing can work in some games but I just found it immersion breaking in Origins.
I liked it. A lot. I was so disappointed with the first DA. It's not often I get $50 for a game and after such shiningly brilliant, radiant reviews I decided to get it. Turns out it's the type of game you need a strategy guide for because of it's complexity and how easy it is to SCREW UP. I restarted so many times because I made the wrong skill choices or I missed a character or a quest or a dialogue option and before I knew it, combat was way too difficult and I was watching my auto attacking party get auto attacked to death. Is this a strategy game or an RPG? I'd say it's more of a tactical action game with long boring dialogue sequences than an RPG, but meh.
The first DA was a lot like KotoR, but too slow and too many uninteresting opponents and dialogue with ridiculously stat based combat. Make one wrong stat choice and you're going to get your butt handed to you until you level up again. Make two wrong stat choices and you need to restart the game. It basically felt like a rip off of LotR (but what fantasy game isn't these days?) and nothing new was happening. I was going around and auto attacking orcs everywhere. I remember this one part of the game where I try to travel to a new city and I get waylaid by a band of orcs (darkspawn..), so I saved my game. Well, no matter what I did they slaughtered my party and I couldn't proceed the story. I couldn't go back to level up, there was nothing to go back to, and so I turned the game off and tried again (as in started over), only for the same thing to happen to a different set up with different characters. I read up online and apparently I was supposed to be programming these complex macros for my characters and I thought "what? why? I want to control them, not use macros and fall asleep while the game plays itself". I imagine the new combat system is for people like me who LIKE seeing their button presses yield results - you know - how most video games are.
And before anyone hops on the "you don't know what a real RPG is blah blah" of course I do, I've played all the classics, Fallouts, Planescape Torment, D&D etc etc. DA:O was just a bad RPG in my opinion, it was too bland and boring, and took a lot of math and foreknowledge (you had to prepare your party for certain battles that you had never fought yet, while somehow knowing they would happen, in order to survive them), and less actual playing and investment in your character. You had to even make little macros and such. Yuck.
In all honesty, Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age: Origins (the first game) shouldn't be labeled as video games (im not saying theyre bad, just 'interactive' movies of a sort), but digital books/movies with moving characters. The combat is so bad in these games it would be better if it were removed. I imagine this is why people dislike these 'great' games, they may have fantastic stories and interesting characters, great graphics and excellent programming, but if it's not fun to play but is instead fun to watch, there's a problem and it disturbs me how many people don't see the difference.
I'll always support the fact that games can be ridiculous and make no sense, as long as they're fun to play. But put a game that takes itself deadly serious and tries to be the next Star Trek with it's seriousness about humanity and aliens and oh it's just not fun to play............ it puts me to sleep. I will never buy a video game because it's great to watch, listen to or read. I buy games to be played.
That and I think people have too much money. Some people can dumb $250 bucks a week on games, so it's "a great game!" if it even just looks pretty on the cover. They'll pop it in once in a blue moon and it'll sparkle and they'll think it's great. But if they have to rely on a single game for 2-3 months? That purchase has to mean something, and if it doesn't.. boy are they let down.
The first DA was a lot like KotoR, but too slow and too many uninteresting opponents and dialogue with ridiculously stat based combat. Make one wrong stat choice and you're going to get your butt handed to you until you level up again. Make two wrong stat choices and you need to restart the game. It basically felt like a rip off of LotR (but what fantasy game isn't these days?) and nothing new was happening. I was going around and auto attacking orcs everywhere. I remember this one part of the game where I try to travel to a new city and I get waylaid by a band of orcs (darkspawn..), so I saved my game. Well, no matter what I did they slaughtered my party and I couldn't proceed the story. I couldn't go back to level up, there was nothing to go back to, and so I turned the game off and tried again (as in started over), only for the same thing to happen to a different set up with different characters. I read up online and apparently I was supposed to be programming these complex macros for my characters and I thought "what? why? I want to control them, not use macros and fall asleep while the game plays itself". I imagine the new combat system is for people like me who LIKE seeing their button presses yield results - you know - how most video games are.
And before anyone hops on the "you don't know what a real RPG is blah blah" of course I do, I've played all the classics, Fallouts, Planescape Torment, D&D etc etc. DA:O was just a bad RPG in my opinion, it was too bland and boring, and took a lot of math and foreknowledge (you had to prepare your party for certain battles that you had never fought yet, while somehow knowing they would happen, in order to survive them), and less actual playing and investment in your character. You had to even make little macros and such. Yuck.
In all honesty, Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age: Origins (the first game) shouldn't be labeled as video games (im not saying theyre bad, just 'interactive' movies of a sort), but digital books/movies with moving characters. The combat is so bad in these games it would be better if it were removed. I imagine this is why people dislike these 'great' games, they may have fantastic stories and interesting characters, great graphics and excellent programming, but if it's not fun to play but is instead fun to watch, there's a problem and it disturbs me how many people don't see the difference.
I'll always support the fact that games can be ridiculous and make no sense, as long as they're fun to play. But put a game that takes itself deadly serious and tries to be the next Star Trek with it's seriousness about humanity and aliens and oh it's just not fun to play............ it puts me to sleep. I will never buy a video game because it's great to watch, listen to or read. I buy games to be played.
That and I think people have too much money. Some people can dumb $250 bucks a week on games, so it's "a great game!" if it even just looks pretty on the cover. They'll pop it in once in a blue moon and it'll sparkle and they'll think it's great. But if they have to rely on a single game for 2-3 months? That purchase has to mean something, and if it doesn't.. boy are they let down.
If I have to choose one, I guess it's "more welcoming".
Ideally I'd say "more awesome", though. It's too bad that the isometric view and non-combat skills didn't make it into the game, but I don't think it'll have any significant detrimental effect on the game's fun factor.
Ideally I'd say "more awesome", though. It's too bad that the isometric view and non-combat skills didn't make it into the game, but I don't think it'll have any significant detrimental effect on the game's fun factor.
Having never played the first, I can't say how dumbed down it is. But from someone who is new to the series, I felt that the combat didn't require a lot of effort from me, the player. I don't think it could win on its own and I still need to activate special abilities. But for basic attacks, I felt I had to hit the button once and the game took over.
I also felt that the dialogue was really strained. It didn't flow naturally (a couple of times that was my fault and didn't pick an option within a reasonable amount of time). But for the most part, the voice acting interaction between characters felt forced, unnatural.
I also felt that the dialogue was really strained. It didn't flow naturally (a couple of times that was my fault and didn't pick an option within a reasonable amount of time). But for the most part, the voice acting interaction between characters felt forced, unnatural.
I understand your concerns to a certain extent, although I have never played Origins, so I feel as if my view is limited somewhat. Mass Effect, however, is a game that I feel comfortable talking about. I didn't feel the combat in ME was all that terrible. I think it could have been better in some areas (lot losing accuracy as quickly) and there could be times when you went longer periods without shooting something, but I still enjoyed it. Maybe just a difference of opinion.michael87cn said:
To me, the combat in DA2 demo is button mashing. Which sucks. However, the combat is much more responsive because of that (albeit slightly unrealistic-like the rogues jumping all over). My only other complaint is that in playing the 360 version on my TV, I CAN'T READ ANY OF THE TEXT. Don't get me wrong, conversations are much more interesting this way, but its bloody annoying. I can't read any of my skills, stats, or inventory items either. Did anyone else have this issue with the demo, or is it just me?
They got Dynasty Warriors in my Dragon Age and I don't like it. Goodbye tactical gameplay awesome finishing animations and hello hordes of enemies that can be beat by tapping A and using the odd potion.
Oh and sexing up Flemeth screw you designers I feel so insulted that the game is aimed at me under the assumption I want constant T&A in games, I live in a fantastical world where there are magical creatures called women I don't need pixilated tits thank you.
Oh and sexing up Flemeth screw you designers I feel so insulted that the game is aimed at me under the assumption I want constant T&A in games, I live in a fantastical world where there are magical creatures called women I don't need pixilated tits thank you.
The combat is waaaaaay better, now my character doesn't awkwardly turn and shuffle towards the targeted enemy.
So that makes the mad dash through the combat towards my precious Bioware dialogue a lot less annoying.
And apparently archery is no longer garbage
So more welcoming is my vote.
So that makes the mad dash through the combat towards my precious Bioware dialogue a lot less annoying.
And apparently archery is no longer garbage
So more welcoming is my vote.
Well the combat in DA really needed to be redone. Most of it was just auto atks, and waiting for the battle to finish. While you could micro manage your team, a lot of times it isn't needed once you set up the tactics and you spend most of the game walking into the groups and just waiting till someones dead to click on another. I've done solo nightmare runs where I just click on an enemy and watch youtube till the fights over because there's nothing for me to do except occ glance at hp. DA2 felt more engaging, and fast pace, even if it was a hack and slash feel. And let you manage your team like you would before, if you still like that style of play.RedEyesBlackGamer said:
The new, fast combat speed was a poor change in my opinion. also, the dialogue wheel annoys me, as it feels a bit restrictive. I am probably still going to get it, as I play Dragon Age for the characters, story and dialogue. Also, I miss my tactical view... Didn't seem to be there, unless im just stupid.
On a side note, I used the leap attack (not the skill, but the initial basic attack when closing in) with the warrior to easily destroy large numbers of grunts... I think it could be more balanced.
On a side note, I used the leap attack (not the skill, but the initial basic attack when closing in) with the warrior to easily destroy large numbers of grunts... I think it could be more balanced.
I have heard a lot about this being too hack and slash and not a true "RPG" but to be honest it just feels like Bioware is trying to make the game a bit more simple yet still fun. The leveling up system is a lot easier to understand (I still loved DOA but it took me my 3rd play-through to fully understand the combat). The combat on the other-hand feels somewhat like DA but actually seems to be integrated with some Jade Empire combat. I don't think Bioware sold us out because I know for a fact the reason most of my friends didn't play the 1st game is because the combat is so unwelcoming to the new players (easy difficulty was still hard on my first play-through). So what I'm trying to say is that Bioware actually made some changes and didn't pull out the same crap every year like Call of duty or Halo (which I do like.)