Poll: Dragon Age 2 vs. The Witcher 2

[Waaghpowa]

Dragon Age 2 gets a lot of flak. Had it been a different franchise by a different company I suspect it would have been praised as an excellent game, but because it was Bioware not to mention a follow up to the extremely well received Dragon Age Origins it was held to a higher standard... which is perfectly fair actually. I just think the game itself isn't by any stretch bad, certainly not to the extent it gets demonized to, and that deserves mention.

That said it's also a blatant cash grab. Hashed together fairly quickly, re-using the same art assets as often as possible, limited dialogue and sense of consequence or choice where I feel there should be more. It just feels like someone up high demanded more and this was what they were able to throw together. It's still good, but it lacks... well...

It lacks soul. Witcher 2 has that aplenty. Every location is created with a painstaking eye for detail. The story is labyrinth and thorough, with extensive back-reading within the journal along with the main game storyline itself all paying homage to the series it's based upon. The music is sweeping and beautiful, fitting the scenery, setting and story perfectly. And the post-launch support and business ethics are among the best. Even the games packaging is brilliant, whereas by contrast DA2 was a flimsy DVD case and a few black & white pieces of paper.

Really The Witcher 2 is a game that you can tell the developers genuinely cared about and actively wanted to make the absolute best product possible not simply out of high standards, but because it's something they cared about. Whether they succeeded at that is a matter of personal preference, but I think it at least deserves acknowledgement and praise.

Witcher 2 for me. No contest.

I have to agree. I don't think DA2 was bad, I like it. The problem was that it was missing so much that made the first one so good. I think it partly has to do with EA, and partly Bioware. As I've stated numerous times on other threads, Bioware has a bad habit of OVER Simplifying things.

I'm going to quote myself, the context was originally in regards to the possibility that The Witcher 2 was coming to consoles, but it sums up my thoughts about Bioware and console RPG's in general rather nicely.

Spoiler: Long Winded Response

I think we can all agree that the console version will surely hold your hand more as consoles generally aim for a larger audience. My issue with the console version is not that there will be a console version of this game, but that they might pull a Bioware. To clarify what I mean when I say "Pull a Bioware": I fear for the fact that they might take some of the criticisms of the game from console players too far and change ridiculous things that inevitably oversimplify the game which then translates over to the PC version. Example: The whole deal with inventory in Mass Effect 2. I get that it's a third person shooter, but it's still a sci fi RPG. Having an inventory filled with different guns, armours and weapon/armour mods added an RPG element to the game. Removing it makes the game feel like Gears of War without the gratuitous gore. Not to mention smaller environments and that whole deal with the elevators. What difference does it make to replace watching your characters ride an elevator with a loading screen? You're still sitting there staring at something and NOT playing the game. It at least gave you perspective on how large the areas were.

Though I'm not claiming that the console RPG crowd is dumb by any means, but it seems that developers like Bioware are doing these things to their most recent RPG's because they assume that the majority of their fan base is simple. So they design the game to be as simple as possible to require as little thought as possible. RPG's should have you making serious decisions, weighing the pro's and con's when considering talents, skills and equipment.

Dragon Age 2 is the most recent example, though I enjoyed it for what it was, I couldn't help but feel like there was something missing, wanting more. By comparison Dragon Age 2 is probably the most boring Bioware game I've played to date, it being the first one of their titles I couldn't play a second time through.

The gist of my thought is: I'm not against having a console version of the Witcher 2 available. I just really hope that making a console version of The Witcher 2 wont compromise the quality of future Witcher titles, because this is the first RPG I've played in quite some time that was truly satisfying.

By the way, I love the Mass Effect series, despite my criticism.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I think we should just all agree that both games are superior to Fable III and have a group dry hump.

No?

Fine. On entirely personal preferences, The Witcher 2. I found it more engaging and immersive than Dragon Age 2.

 

[Mr. Omega]

For all new here, here is a (mostly for comedic effect) summary of the games, according to the Escapist, if posts here are anything to go by:

Dragon Age 2:
It has single-handedly murdered RPGs forever, and killed their children as well, sucking the life out of all that is pure in Bioware, and destroys all their credibility as a game company, the embodiment of all that is wrong in gaming. Also, it causes cancer and kicks puppies.

The Witcher 2:
The Messiah. Gaming perfected. The single greatest thing that man has ever produced. It was to RPGs what Half Life was to FPS games. No flaws are in this game, and anyone talking about any of them are clearly stupid and are a baby who needs their hand held. Also, it cured AIDS and brought World Peace.

In all seriousness:
Haven't played Witcher 2, didn't like the first, but DA2, while flawed (so very very flawed...) was still a good game. I think people had too much expectations for it, and when it didn't meet them they went to the old cry of "RUINED FOREVER!". I can get why people don't like it, but the pure seething HATRED it's been getting just confuses me, and the constant bringing up of that hatred ANNOYS me to no end. I GET IT! YOU DIDN'T LIKE IT! SHUT UP ABOUT IT!

It's not that the expectation for DA2 was too high, it was that DA2 was significantly worse than DA:O. Unnecessarily removing and over simplifying aspects that didn't need simplifying and making the game essentially linear with very little wiggle room. Not to mention the constant repetition or environments. It was also the first Bioware game I couldn't play through a second time, because there was nothing else to do.

As far as DA2 being the "embodiment" of everything wrong with gaming, it's not true. It's more representative of what's wrong with Bioware as of late. I think they've been listening to the wrong people when it came to Q:A, because DA2 did significantly worse in sales than the first game; word of mouth > advertisements which EA focuses way too much on.

You should actually try The Witcher 2 rather than sit there and rage on people who preferred it

It's not so much a raging on people who preferred Witcher 2 as I am the fact that after all this time, people are STILL bitching about DA2, and are now using it as an excuse to prop Witcher 2 up even higher. Furthermore, the Witcher fans have been insulting people who preferred DA2, pretty much going "YOUR OPINION IS WRONG! WITCHER 2 IS BETTER AND YOU'RE A BAD PERSON FOR LIKING DRAGON AGE 2!"

I get that they don't like it. I get it. I get they prefered Witcher 2. But the constant "HAH DA2 IS SHIT WITCHER IS SO MUCH BETTER AND THE FANS ARE ALL IDIOTS WHO LIKE DUMBED DOWN GAMES" just makes your claim about preference seem very hypocritical.

The whole "summary of comments" things was just me making fun of just how much people have been raging on DA2 so much while so zealously defending the Witcher 2 against ANY negative comments that have been made against it.

As for the expectations, I might be wrong. I didn't play Origins, so I don't know what they were expecting. But whatever they were expecting must have been hefty for them to have such pure, seething boiling hatred for a (while heavily, heavily flawed) mostly good game. I can get why some don't like it. It has issues. But to be portrayed in such a negative light when there are so many clearly worse games just makes me think some people just got REALLY let down by this, and aren't letting it go. At all. And likely never will.

 

[nbamaniac]

For all new here, here is a (mostly for comedic effect) summary of the games, according to the Escapist, if posts here are anything to go by:

Dragon Age 2:
It has single-handedly murdered RPGs forever, and killed their children as well, sucking the life out of all that is pure in Bioware, and destroys all their credibility as a game company, the embodiment of all that is wrong in gaming. Also, it causes cancer and kicks puppies.

The Witcher 2:
The Messiah. Gaming perfected. The single greatest thing that man has ever produced. It was to RPGs what Half Life was to FPS games. No flaws are in this game, and anyone talking about any of them are clearly stupid and are a baby who needs their hand held. Also, it cured AIDS and brought World Peace.

In all seriousness:
Haven't played Witcher 2, didn't like the first, but DA2, while flawed (so very very flawed...) was still a good game. I think people had too much expectations for it, and when it didn't meet them they went to the old cry of "RUINED FOREVER!". I can get why people don't like it, but the pure seething HATRED it's been getting just confuses me, and the constant bringing up of that hatred ANNOYS me to no end. I GET IT! YOU DIDN'T LIKE IT! SHUT UP ABOUT IT!

It's not that the expectation for DA2 was too high, it was that DA2 was significantly worse than DA:O. Unnecessarily removing and over simplifying aspects that didn't need simplifying and making the game essentially linear with very little wiggle room. Not to mention the constant repetition or environments. It was also the first Bioware game I couldn't play through a second time, because there was nothing else to do.

As far as DA2 being the "embodiment" of everything wrong with gaming, it's not true. It's more representative of what's wrong with Bioware as of late. I think they've been listening to the wrong people when it came to Q:A, because DA2 did significantly worse in sales than the first game; word of mouth > advertisements which EA focuses way too much on.

You should actually try The Witcher 2 rather than sit there and rage on people who preferred it

It's not so much a raging on people who preferred Witcher 2 as I am the fact that after all this time, people are STILL bitching about DA2, and are now using it as an excuse to prop Witcher 2 up even higher. Furthermore, the Witcher fans have been insulting people who preferred DA2, pretty much going "YOUR OPINION IS WRONG! WITCHER 2 IS BETTER AND YOU'RE A BAD PERSON FOR LIKING DRAGON AGE 2!"

I get that they don't like it. I get it. I get they prefered Witcher 2. But the constant "HAH DA2 IS SHIT WITCHER IS SO MUCH BETTER AND THE FANS ARE ALL IDIOTS WHO LIKE DUMBED DOWN GAMES" just makes your claim about preference seem very hypocritical.

.

Ignore those people then.. Those are die hard fanboys and will pull any game down. Yaarr fanboys. As much as Bioware has 'Biodrones', TW2 has a share of them too. Just chill and let it flow. And yeah i definitely recommend TW2. xD

EDIT: On a side note, i'm pretty pleased this volatile thread haven't incurred flame wrath yet.

 

[VanTesla]

So far I say the Witcher 2 is better in every way possible compared to DA2... I havent finished the Witcher 2 yet though. Make sure to have good PC to run the Witcher 2 well or don't buy it.

 

[Waaghpowa]

-

It's not so much a raging on people who preferred Witcher 2 as I am the fact that after all this time, people are STILL bitching about DA2, and are now using it as an excuse to prop Witcher 2 up even higher. Furthermore, the Witcher fans have been insulting people who preferred DA2, pretty much going "YOUR OPINION IS WRONG! WITCHER 2 IS BETTER AND YOU'RE A BAD PERSON FOR LIKING DRAGON AGE 2!"

I get that they don't like it. I get it. I get they prefered Witcher 2. But the constant "HAH DA2 IS SHIT WITCHER IS SO MUCH BETTER AND THE FANS ARE ALL IDIOTS WHO LIKE DUMBED DOWN GAMES" just makes your claim about preference seem very hypocritical.

The whole "summary of comments" things was just me making fun of just how much people have been raging on DA2 so much while so zealously defending the Witcher 2 against ANY negative comments that have been made against it.

As for the expectations, I might be wrong. I didn't play Origins, so I don't know what they were expecting. But whatever they were expecting must have been hefty for them to have such pure, seething boiling hatred for a (while heavily, heavily flawed) mostly good game. I can get why some don't like it. It has issues. But to be portrayed in such a negative light when there are so many clearly worse games just makes me think some people just got REALLY let down by this, and aren't letting it go. At all. And likely never will.

Well first, the problem is that you haven't played the first one and your views are based entirely on the sequel, which the consensus is that it was not as good as the first. You may understand a little better if you go back for the first game. But I will say this, the one major improvement made from the first game was they sped up combat, which was definitely needed to a degree.

The irrational people calling DA fans "Stupid" for liking it over the Witcher 2 are the minority, they do no represent those of us, including myself. It's easy to point out the loud annoying minority when the rest of us are staying relatively quiet and civil.

 

[HerbertTheHamster]

...The Witcher 2 is a good game. Not amazing, but solid.

Dragon 2 age was a pile of fan fiction with HERE COMES ANOTHER WAVE.

I'm not surprised at people disliking TW2, but liking DA2? ...really?

 

[MetallicaRulez0]

The Witcher 2 is too old school for me. There's a reason we don't see many old school features in games, such as no fast travel or inventory weight management. They don't add anything to the game, but they equate to a lot of frustration and annoyance.

Dragon Age 2 isn't a great game either, but it is a lot better than most people give it credit for. The Witcher 2 is the opposite. It's being heralded as the second coming of Christ, but in reality it's only a moderately good RPG with a lot of stuck-in-the-past mechanics.

 

[Kotep]

I don't see why they're compared so often, other than being highly marketed 'dark' medieval RPGs, there's much more prescient comparisons to be made. After all, shouldn't it be Dragon Age versus Drakensang and Risen versus The Witcher?

 

[Kahunaburger]

As for the expectations, I might be wrong. I didn't play Origins, so I don't know what they were expecting. But whatever they were expecting must have been hefty for them to have such pure, seething boiling hatred for a (while heavily, heavily flawed) mostly good game. I can get why some don't like it. It has issues. But to be portrayed in such a negative light when there are so many clearly worse games just makes me think some people just got REALLY let down by this, and aren't letting it go. At all. And likely never will.

You should play Origins then

It's an excellent game, and yeah, I agree with you that a good chunk of the DA2 hate comes from the bar being set very high.

 

[nbamaniac]

I don't see why they're compared so often, other than being highly marketed 'dark' medieval RPGs, there's much more prescient comparisons to be made. After all, shouldn't it be Dragon Age versus Drakensang and Risen versus The Witcher?

It was more of Mainstream vs Mainstream. sad..

EDIT: another explanation could be Sequel vs Sequel looking at the nature of the two.

 

[Conza]

Well I think the poll (thankfully) says it all.

But just to be sure, DA2 was a dumbing down of a franchise, and people thought it was a rushed out game (I haven't played it, two of my friends have and didn't like it as much as the original).

The Witcher 2 however, everyone seems to love, and is just an overall excellent game, if you're computer can run it, one of my friends couldn't even get it to go, the other has a 285GTX (1GB VRAM), 6gigs of Ram and a 920 i7 and (no overclocking), couldn't get it to run at max max graphics without glitching a bit, he can turn it up to all the way on most settings, but bloom effects and a few other things cause the fps to halve!

 

[Autofaux]

I hated Dragon Age 2. It felt like an attempt to apply the same streamlined process that made Mass Effect 2 a more popular franchise and more usable on consoles, but making the whole batch shit overall.

And that 'shit' is in the context of it being inferior to the first game, which it is, due to disparity of content between the first and second titles, streamlining of features like fast travel and combat across all platforms, a difficulty curve that spikes in the third act all the way to the final boss, loss of bird's eye view on PC version, no freedom of choice, limited scope, intercharacter development that's *still* annoying to slog through...

And a story that plays out like a dystopian X-Men future.

It feels, and plays like a botched attempt at making a Mass Effect 2-esque splash on the RPG stage.

The Witcher 2, however, improves on its predecessor; in graphics, story development, intercharacter relationships, combat... the difficulty curve spikes early, but not quite as badly as in Dragon Age 2.

 

[Waaghpowa]

Although personally, what I've seen of DA2 did not impress me at all. It just looked so bland and boring...but then again most Bioware games save for Jade Empire give off that vibe and tend to be partially true when it comes to my experiences.

Holy shit, someone actually remembers Jade Empire?!

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I think we can all agree that the console version will surely hold your hand more as consoles generally aim for a larger audience.

I don't agree with that assumption. It's possible, certainly, but that doesn't mean it's a given. CD Projekt RED and it's sister-companies have already shown they're quite willing to march to the beat of their own drum when they feel the need.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Most people who are hating on the combat in TW2 don't use Quen enough. Haha. At first I had problems with it, but after I started to use signs I got through fights without many problems.

Haha that was my take too. I set it to hard, charged into that first group of swordsmen, and was dead 5 seconds later. Then I figured out how to use the signs tactically and was on top of it after the next couple of fights. But yeah, I would guess that a lot of the combat problems people have in the game stem from the fact that the game doesn't go out of its way to tell you the sheer size and usefulness of your arsenal, and doesn't give you any indication that a big part of combat is staying mobile and not getting swarmed. That, combined with the fact that games have conditioned us to think that big guys with big swords are melee bruisers even if they wear light armor

 

[Slycne]

I think I want a both option. I've just recently dived into The Witcher 2, but from what I've played so far I've enjoyed throughly. I also had a lot of fun with Dragon Age 2. Both games have their flaws, but I'd still rate them similarly. I'd need to play some more of The Witcher 2 to finalize that though.

In the end, I think we are probably better off not having a pissing match between the two fan factions, nobody wins when that happens.

 

[-Seraph-]

Although personally, what I've seen of DA2 did not impress me at all. It just looked so bland and boring...but then again most Bioware games save for Jade Empire give off that vibe and tend to be partially true when it comes to my experiences.

Holy shit, someone actually remembers Jade Empire?!

Indeed I do, it was probably my favorite Bioware game which isn't saying much. It had a vibrant and interesting setting with fun characters, decent gameplay, and probably one of their better stories. Save for the dumb top-down shooter sequences, it was a great game and I'd wholeheartedly welcome a second one.

 

[Waaghpowa]

I think we can all agree that the console version will surely hold your hand more as consoles generally aim for a larger audience.

I don't agree with that assumption. It's possible, certainly, but that doesn't mean it's a given. CD Projekt RED and it's sister-companies have already shown they're quite willing to march to the beat of their own drum when they feel the need.

Though I don't believe that CDPR would do too much as they're clearly doing their own thing, it could, or does, apply to other dev's, which is what I was trying to imply in the original post.