Poll: E-cigs

[Mardy]

I don't really care what people smoke, as long as it isn't near me.

 

[Mr. Cyanide]

I smoke, and this would actually be pretty awesome if it became widely available, as much as I enjoy it the negative effects do worry me at times

 

[Kajt]

What's there not to like about it?

 

[Inverse Skies]

I'm sorry, who are 'we' exactly? I want people to smoke as much or as little as they damn well please because they live in a free country that doesn't try to stop them making decisions it doesn't agree with.

In addition, your scenario is blatantly absurd; expensive electronic fake smokes aren't going to be passed around schoolyards, you could just as easily dream up similar scenarios about kids chewing nicotine chewing gum.

The whole idea behind health promotion is to try and stop people choosing unhealthy lifestyle habits so they are less likely to enter the hospital system and hence the system benefits from fewer patients and a healthier society in general. Society actually benefits from as few people smoking as possible, so by saying we I would include the greater community in that statement.

Oh really? Cigarette companies used to hand out toys to kids which were similar to the designs and styles they had with their packages. Hence when the kid started to smoke later on in life, they automatically went back to the style of packaging which they had associated the pleasureable feelings of childhood with. That's a prime example of a scenario in which they try and get people to start smoking. Also, if regular cigarettes are passed around schoolyards then there's nothing to say someone couldn't get hold of one of these e-cigs and allow kids to try it because 'it's healthier than a normal cigarette'. It's very much a legitimate concern.

 

[Sir Ollie]

As a smoker i give it a go, just sounds to crazy to be true

 

[Strafe Mcgee]

This all sounds very very similar to nicotine inhalers that you can get. Sure you don't have the simulation of smoke going into your lungs but the end result is essentially the same. Why do we need another simulation to help people quit when a provenly successful one already exists?

 

[Willwillwritehiswill]

You mean like this?
http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/gamucci-micro-electronic-cigarette/index.html
If i was a smoker, i'd give it go.

 

[Crimsanon]

Smoking's not about the taste, it's about the drugs. Any replacement cigs that don't include some form of drug is not going to hold the attention of a smoker for long.

 

[Evil Tim]

Society actually benefits from as few people smoking as possible, so by saying we I would include the greater community in that statement.

Wrong, actually. In many Western countries anything up to 75% of the cost of a pack of cigarettes is tax. Everyone stops smoking, that means everyone who doesn't smoke ends up having their income taxes raised, much like if everyone used public transport the losses on fuel tax would hit everyone with a tax hike. Why do you think governments don't just ban it? Smokers pay taxes out of the goodness of their hearts and then often drop dead before they can retire and start drawing a pension. It's win-win.

Oh really? Cigarette companies used to hand out toys to kids which were similar to the designs and styles they had with their packages.

Emphasis: used to, back when it was thought of as perfectly fine for them to do so. Kids are far more likely to try a real cigarette in school than they would be to come across someone toting a packet of ridiculous electro-fags. Or rather passing around their ridiculous electro-fag, since it's a single unit; would you want to use what amounts to a well-sucked pen? Again, nobody does this with nicotine patches or gum, do they? It's far from a 'legitimate concern,' it's just a paranoid slippery slope fallacy.

 

[Inverse Skies]

Wrong, actually. In many Western countries anything up to 75% of the cost of a pack of cigarettes is tax. Everyone stops smoking, that means everyone who doesn't smoke ends up having their income taxes raised, much like if everyone used public transport the losses on fuel tax would hit everyone with a tax hike. Why do you think governments don't just ban it? Smokers pay taxes out of the goodness of their hearts and then often drop dead before they can retire and start drawing a pension. It's win-win.

Emphasis: used to, back when it was thought of as perfectly fine for them to do so. Kids are far more likely to try a real cigarette in school than they would be to come across someone toting a packet of ridiculous electro-fags. Again, nobody does this with nicotine patches or gum, do they?

So suddenly money is much more important than peoples health? In Australia we average around 18thousand smoking related deaths per year, a shockingly large number for a item which isn't necessary. Also, as someone who wishes to be an oncologist I would prefer to treat as few cases of squamos cell carcinoma caused by cigarettes as possible. Saying it is a win-win situation places no emphasis on the persons life as an actual person, and demeans them into nothing more than a piece of meat which coughs up money, it places no emphasis on how much their family suffers when they pass on from an activity they should be discouraged from in the first place.

The difference between an e-cig and nicotine patches or gum is an e-cig actually tastes like and emulates the experience of smoking a real cigarette, hence if children/teenagers are exposed to something which is seen as 'healthy' compared to actual cigarettes then they're more likely to pick up the taste and hence are more likely to smoke. And yes, back in highschool I have seen people eat nicotine gum. And as I recall from seeing said people later on in uni, they were smoking then. This e-cig would be something which only drives that process, and we want to stop people smoking rather than start.

 

[sky14kemea]

ill tell my mum if they come out in the UK, she keeps trying to quit, so maybe these will help for the time being =D

 

[Inverse Skies]

Actually it's a very valid point. People whom choose to smoke do so knowing the dangers it causes. And in return, for destroying themselves, they're paying insane amounts of tax money. And packs of smokes only keep getting more and more expensive. So, while you may not want to treat me when I'm 60 and have lung cancer, chances are, simply from the tax I payed over the years smoking, I will have payed several people's life treatment. Especially at a pack of smoke costing 7.50 and most of that going to taxes.
Not only that, but you can't get treated for lung cancer if you don't have insurance last time I checked. So, not only will I have been paying all my life for that hospital bed by purchasing smokes, I'll have been paying all my life for that hospital bed, through my insurance alone.
Smokers give back a lot. And it's viewable in our wallets.

Ahhh, the inherent differences in the American and Australian health care systems. You don't need insurance to be treated in Aus, but it helps if you do have it as there is no waiting line and you get into a private hospital rather than the public system.

So you're happy to spend an average of $3000 a year (Aus) for an activity which provides no benefits to your health and has a rather large stigma attached to it? I'll have to research the DALYS (disability adjusted life years) caused by smoking, that might be interesting. Hold on a sec.

 

[Evil Tim]

So suddenly money is much more important than peoples health?

My health is my business, not yours. If I decided one day I wanted to saw off my own leg or leap out of my bedroom window, the healthcare system is fine treating that, so it can deal with my smoking if I'm willing to pay for it, which I am.

The difference between an e-cig and nicotine patches or gum is an e-cig actually tastes like and emulates the experience of smoking a real cigarette, hence if children/teenagers are exposed to something which is seen as 'healthy' compared to actual cigarettes then they're more likely to pick up the taste and hence are more likely to smoke.

Rubbish. Would you suck on the end of a biro belonging to some other kid if they told you it was a pretend cigarette? Would you let other kids do that to yours? Hell no. Passing a pack of cigarettes around your friends works because you aren't all sharing the same one; you have to go a little stronger than tobacco before people get mellow enough to take a drag and pass it on without looking at what a soggy mess the end is.

And yes, back in highschool I have seen people eat nicotine gum. And as I recall from seeing said people later on in uni, they were smoking then.

I just had three doctors, a psychiatrist and Skeletor knock on my door and remind me anecdotal evidence is completely useless.

This e-cig would be something which only drives that process, and we want to stop people smoking rather than start.

No, 'we' don't. People are, as they should be, free to make their choice as they see fit; smoke or don't smoke, without an overbearing government glaring over their shoulder ready to slap them down for making a choice the do-gooders of the world don't approve of. If someone chooses to smoke today they do so fully aware of the risks and consequences. Constantly nagging them that it's naughty is just self-righteousness for it's own sake.

Moreover, your argument is a paranoid slippery slope fallacy; the device has clear negative points when compared to an actual cigarette that mean it's not likely to be something a kid would want to try, and is far more expensive than a real cigarette anyway.

 

[super_smash_jesus]

I've seen a guy smoking this and he loved it, but it's shit in my opinion. The thing I like the most about smoking is the feeling you get when your lungs fill with black, sticky tar. You can't have smoking without smoke.

Haha, thats exactly how I feel too. It doesn't satisfy unless it tingles your lungs.

 

[Crash486]

It gives smokers the pleasure of smoking but not the nicotine fix which has addicted them to smoking. Actually this sort of thing worries me quite a lot, as it's basically saying to children that is it alright to smoke this form of cigarette as it is not damaging at all. How does it replicate the taste of tobacco anyway?

Do you have a link to an article or something? As there's a few unanswered questions from this.

Well, it's illegal in Australia, so I guess it doesn't really affect us.

Smoking is illegal in Australia? Wow, no smoking, no violent video games, no salvia. You guys really ARE oppressed. 2 Steps away from becoming china.

 

[Nmil-ek]

Pontless its the nicotine rush that keeps comeing back, why dont they just support rollups or something its the exscessive amounts of tar in commercial smokes that causes most of the damage anyway.

 

[Anarchemitis]

I'll wait a couple years until the long/medium term side effects start appearing, because no one in the commercial industry studies those in humans.