Poll: Episodic Gaming Losing Steam

[ZippyDSMlee]

Before I start.....overhaul the preview system its totally fcked up ,at least add the option to stop it from previewing I hate the screen moving when you type...

Now! on to non sucking zippy posting,who would have thought zippy knew "some" grammar!
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SystemAddict: Episodic Gaming Losing Steam
http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=17921
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ran across this article and the muses decided I could write today so here it is!


After SIN came out on steam and how lackluster it was I do not think its the format thats the issue, Sam and max is doing well, it falls to the devs to bring a product out that people like and will buy, this is still relevant in a market that runs head long into the cash in quick to market games that are unpolished and sold off ASAP so more games can replace it so publishers and lastly devs gain a profit to do it all over again.

Perhaps this is how gaming always has been and only now after being burned so many times I see it as almost the same as hollywood filled with hacks who inbreed ideas to recreate newer works of fiction into utter crap to feed insesintly to the tweens(12-2X) who will watch anything 3X or more, heaven forbid they put enough effort into a project that its watchable by most of the 30+ crowd, then again this could fall into a sheeple via mindless business debate, but I digress, gaming has deadlines and project goals I understand that but lack of detail and polish in something like bioshock is hurtful to me in the short run and the industry in the long run, more of that later.

So what about episodic content, well we have 2 maybe 3 maybe 4 digital distribution services for games gametap,sprocket,steam and D2D for the PC and 2 or 3 for the console counter what sony will offer some time soon, thats probably the reason why its so slow and cumbersome its ratio of the market is much smaller than the retail market.

Talking about digi distro I want to go over my issues with it price is one issue I will never leave alone well that and ownership there of but more of that later,.

Price to me should be 30-60% less than retail and case after case its 10-30% more than retail I can understand the reasons why but one reason I have not bothered to fool with it is price V cost, for 60$ I can buy a game that I will be renting for the rest of my or the servers life, which ever comes first and this leaves me cold and jaded sure I can crack the game its easy to do even if the march on user rights damns it as a illicit act in the future, but tmy question is why do I want to pay 30+ for a game to "rent" it for the rest of its contracted days?

Whats worse yet DRM is starting to limit installs and worse yet spy on consumers, while I have my own personal tinfoil hat issues with Steam at least I know it only dose statical data gathering on the game and how you play it,if they would make it more off line friendly I would buy into it without a 2nd thought but as long as I have to download and have a hacked copy to put with my legit game I wont easily buy any game unless its under 20$, D2D seems to be ramping up its DRM witch is a shame I have a couple of their games the(supreme commander and something else) the DRM is unnoticeable and I can run a copy off alcohol 120% and other disc emulation tools, if D2D losses its consumer friendliness and retains its higher price there is no reason to go to look at what they got because price V cost makes it unworthy,however I will be seeing if they have a unedited copy of the witcher if they don't I will just buy a edited US retail copy and "download" the Europe multi language game, I find it so funny that this game got edited for the states and nudity and gore was left in for the EU release,one last thing abotu the witch it seems to have normal disc protection and disc emulation tool blacklisting nothing more than that, everyone should check the game out and buy in if you got the cash and can stand over head medieval action rpgs.


In final Digi distro publishers need to have more options for the users if they wish to overcharge on games, I want to download it install it and play, activation dose not take place because its a pointless gimmick to stall the enviable, what I want is a passive system that uses the net the check the install/key if multi copies (more than 3) are running for more than a week by all means block/ban it,with DRM tech I am sure that a passive system like ids key check could be bound to a install that blacklists firewall programs and gets past them of coarse this would probably be as effective as root kits, so where dose that leave publishers it leaves them with in a position to either work with consumers or frustrate them to the point of buying used at 30-90% off retail price, I switched to used gaming years ago boycotted EB and then GS by default when EB dropped the sale of used PC games to "protect" the consumer, they might as well drop used 360 games the DRM on them is much more simple a softmod and a copied game and you are good to go day 1 at least on the PC it will take a couple of weeks....


Anyone else love disc emu tools? I also love putting multi disc games on a DVD with their patches and cheats all legitment gray area stuff soon to be tossed out as the media "families" march on the user to save a buck, and to them thats what they are saving to trample on the rights of the people.


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Bioshock

What can I say the setting is A++ the game however is lacking from not being able to pick up items to lousy AI to water can not be frozen to dozens of other lil things that just add up to this game being weaker than it could have been,am I blind mad or crazy when a game like Dark messiah is 20 times more fun and interesting than Bioshock, both games are watered down offspring of games before them however DM retains some class and potential while BS gives up to the PR machine, "ZOMG no RPG herez"....*sigh* and these are just the game issues the PC port (talks like a port,walks like a port its a port m'kay?) for the game is a weak port keys are locked or unused the menu is "unique" the options are limited and the mouse is broken I am oen fot eh lucky ones I guess I got the game new off ebay for 33$ and its still not as neat as DM collectors ed I got for 14$.........


Bioshock revoke tool(to uninstall the install key on the key server so you can get your 1 of 5 installs back)
http://www.gamershell.com/download_21448.shtml

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Quick rant
Anyone think headshots on hard mode should still be as lethal as they are on normal?
theres nothing like a satisfying insta kill since they dropped gibing as a feature in FPSs I love me headshots to death , I hate playing a game on normal because its just to easy..... mmm has anyone else noticed the balance issues with weapons in most FPS on hard mode, you cant tell it much on normal but on hard it seems all the glaring issues are just that more ...shiny....

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

I might be posting "wrong" feel free to curtail me humor or what not, I try and post within rules and what not, I realy need to get office installed so I can start making sense again >>

 

[Arbre]

All depends what you sell, to which price, and how you sell it.

Episodic content could actually be class. For example, imagine that it could let amateur level designers be paid, even remotely, for doing maps which were appraised during their beta stage. Of course, this kills a bit of the steam behind the comunity support, but that's just an idea.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

All depends what you sell, to which price, and how you sell it.

Episodic content could actually be class. For example, imagine that it could let amateur level designers be paid, even remotely, for doing maps which were appraised during their beta stage. Of course, this kills a bit of the steam behind the comunity support, but that's just an idea.

Mmmm didn't cover episodic content enough....mmmm zippy rantage FTW >> LOL

price is simple it should never go over 25 for 5-12 hours of content, frankly they'd be better selling a area for 8$ a pop,thats not to bad for 2-5 hours of content, but building levels is still the most time consuming almost any game needs a year for every 5 hours of game, I wonder if its that map building is not treated right because from my perspective level design has been failing over the years with a focus on more bland gun and run designs.

why not bring the community in and let them share content on the cheap where everyone wins(low fees 10-30%, low price max 15$), looking at total conversions and other exstream projects why not it makes sense, however the price is the key if they go over 10-15 for large projects then they wind up back at square one where nothing much is sold.

Episodic content like all gaming needs to be "richer" in content and cheaper in price, the half life model is not so bad but it is lacking in some ways.

 

[J.theYellow]

Not many companies were really into the idea in the first place; it was just something cool to give lip service to. Ritual used the idea to resurrect their SiN universe and put out one episode, but found out after the fact that to really save time, they'd pretty much have to commit to doing 9 games in the SiN universe, and expect everyone to have to buy them, and have multiple teams with overlapping schedules. So they sold out to their ball-bouncy neighbors Mumbo Jumbo instead.

The Sam & Max games are just shit. Everything that was ever wrong with the original games and old-school adventure games, it's all there. Perfect for the sort of gamer who loves watching demented funny animals jabber about how they can't figure out what to do and are just as bewildered as the players by the absurdity of the world.

Valve, well, Valve is still Valve. They won't release anything unless it's been done and redone several times. Iteration takes time, so they're going to keep failing No. 3 on Yahtzee's list. And while Warren Spector's Junction Point came roaring out of the gate with episodic gaming all over their press releases, they quietly closed their deal with Valve more than a year ago and sold out to Disney.

So, yeah. Any game company who actually makes good games is still going to take a long time to do it, because it takes a long time to make good games. Anything labeled as episodic is likely not to be considered such by players ... which is probably a good thing, because any part of the series that's good enough to be played once is probably going to take at least a year to seep into the collective unconscious of the gaming public.

That's what passes for brand management these days.

The whole notion that amateurs or smaller shops could be trusted to continue a story is laughable. Unless you're talking about Bioware farming out NWN modules to Floodgate, which is run by the likes of Paul Neurath and could well employ some far minor designers, well, NWN could have continued on as a franchise if Atari had let Bioware continue making deals with it. Anyone else would have had to create as much if not more of a framework for directing production by all the "amateurs" as it would to hire good developers and move them in-house.

That's the real problem with amateur game developers. They talk a good game, but rarely get anything done.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Not many companies were really into the idea in the first place; it was just something cool to give lip service to. Ritual used the idea to resurrect their SiN universe and put out one episode, but found out after the fact that to really save time, they'd pretty much have to commit to doing 9 games in the SiN universe, and expect everyone to have to buy them, and have multiple teams with overlapping schedules. So they sold out to their ball-bouncy neighbors Mumbo Jumbo instead.

The Sam & Max games are just shit. Everything that was ever wrong with the original games and old-school adventure games, it's all there. Perfect for the sort of gamer who loves watching demented funny animals jabber about how they can't figure out what to do and are just as bewildered as the players by the absurdity of the world.

Valve, well, Valve is still Valve. They won't release anything unless it's been done and redone several times. Iteration takes time, so they're going to keep failing No. 3 on Yahtzee's list. And while Warren Spector's Junction Point came roaring out of the gate with episodic gaming all over their press releases, they quietly closed their deal with Valve more than a year ago and sold out to Disney.

So, yeah. Any game company who actually makes good games is still going to take a long time to do it, because it takes a long time to make good games. Anything labeled as episodic is likely not to be considered such by players ... which is probably a good thing, because any part of the series that's good enough to be played once is probably going to take at least a year to seep into the collective unconscious of the gaming public.

That's what passes for brand management these days.

The whole notion that amateurs or smaller shops could be trusted to continue a story is laughable. Unless you're talking about Bioware farming out NWN modules to Floodgate, which is run by the likes of Paul Neurath and could well employ some far minor designers, well, NWN could have continued on as a franchise if Atari had let Bioware continue making deals with it. Anyone else would have had to create as much if not more of a framework for directing production by all the "amateurs" as it would to hire good developers and move them in-house.

That's the real problem with amateur game developers. They talk a good game, but rarely get anything done.

I don't think anyone said let amutures work on the main games no they would help with this and that, with streaming services they well could do it.

But it goes back to time, any game worth while takes time unless the dev team is just that good,and they dont have that many godly dev teams anymore...


I'd do more moddign myself but I get find someone to help me figure out WTF I am doing
Q4 is a pain to code ut04 not so bad,I just fool with weapons,damages and stuff of the like.
I can think alot up but can't implement most of it for I fail 0-o
LOL

 

[J.theYellow]

"This and that." Is that code for, "get credit for letting professionals do all the work and hold your hand"? Because you're better off just trying to get your own mod done. Or better yet, just go play games.

 

[Lance Icarus]

Episodic gaming is far from losing steam. I think this whole idea of releasing a "series" of games is a little flawed though, especially for well established franchises like Half-Life. When you make promises to create a series of games, why not just make the one big game? We're more patient than you think. We deal with delays all the time. When it comes to a game like Half-Life, I'd rather get the full on big budget $60 dollar lovefest game than the "episodic" stuff where it's been off and on. It almost seems like a way of putting off a Half-Life 3.

Sam and Maxx goes in the right direction, but falls a little flat in it's really awkward pacing. That and the puzzles almost require the full game appeal by doing the adventure game item solves puzzle thing and, when a game's only a few hours long, you have maybe ten items to try out. What I like about it though is that they feel like self contained episodes instead of half-life's mini epics. The only problem with it is the story arch over all the episodes that's really thinly veiled as far as detective games go.

I think episodic gaming should be seen more as a starting point for a series to test the waters of the consumer pool. Almost treat it as a series of elaborate and complete demos than trying to impersonate full $50 dollar games. Make it kinda like the old shareware days where you got the game and you can support the designer by sending him $10 bucks to get more levels and stuff. Allow the game to change from episode to episode and see what works best and, if it's going relatively well, then think about making a full game.

Episodic gaming shouldn't be used for big budget titles that everyone knows will sell for $50 plus dollars, it should be for newer franchises that need to work out those last few bugs and concept flaws before going to show.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

Episodic gaming is far from losing steam. I think this whole idea of releasing a "series" of games is a little flawed though, especially for well established franchises like Half-Life. When you make promises to create a series of games, why not just make the one big game? We're more patient than you think. We deal with delays all the time. When it comes to a game like Half-Life, I'd rather get the full on big budget $60 dollar lovefest game than the "episodic" stuff where it's been off and on. It almost seems like a way of putting off a Half-Life 3.

Sam and Maxx goes in the right direction, but falls a little flat in it's really awkward pacing. That and the puzzles almost require the full game appeal by doing the adventure game item solves puzzle thing and, when a game's only a few hours long, you have maybe ten items to try out. What I like about it though is that they feel like self contained episodes instead of half-life's mini epics. The only problem with it is the story arch over all the episodes that's really thinly veiled as far as detective games go.

I think episodic gaming should be seen more as a starting point for a series to test the waters of the consumer pool. Almost treat it as a series of elaborate and complete demos than trying to impersonate full $50 dollar games. Make it kinda like the old shareware days where you got the game and you can support the designer by sending him $10 bucks to get more levels and stuff. Allow the game to change from episode to episode and see what works best and, if it's going relatively well, then think about making a full game.

Episodic gaming shouldn't be used for big budget titles that everyone knows will sell for $50 plus dollars, it should be for newer franchises that need to work out those last few bugs and concept flaws before going to show.

Good points, Flagship titles do not need episodic releases spin offs extras and stuff could be, but large main games not so much unless the devs can afford building a whole game and releasing it in parts as they are finished.

 

[Woozy]

My impression is that "Episodic Gaming" is code for "Expansion Packs, only we didn't finish the first title". If it isn't dying yet, I hope it does soon.

 

[AK-00]

To be honest, I don't think episodic gaming has even broken its own inertia yet, let alone run out of steam. The Sam & Max point-&-click adventure was episodic, and it's been a big success. Aside from that, no-one else seems to have released a truly episodic game. I think, once the smaller publishers realise it offers a way to bypass the big publishers, shorten production times and operate on a smaller budget, it'll really pick up.