Poll: Equal Rights for Smokers

[magicmonkeybars]

Should we deny people who practice sports healthcare ?
People who practice sports are far more likely in incure injury then people who don't.
that's a big strain on the healthcare sector.

Breaking your neck while skiing could leave you crippled for life, just imagine the cost that comes with such an injury, should we ban skiing because it needlessly adds strain on the healthcare system ?

 

[iBroham]

...except the idiots who "slipped" and violated themselves with a silly object)

lol, agreed.

 

[iBroham]

Have you noticed that without the sweet smell of smoke all those previously masked smells fill your club/pub?

Ah, gone are the days of going clubbing and coming home with clothes reeking of fags and coughing up black phlegm.

 

[iBroham]

I'm gonna get this one out of the way fast:

I hate smoking, for several reasons, the main one of which is that I'm allergic to the stuff. We found this out when we went to live at my grandmother's house for about a half-year (and she smoked, constantly.) It's not serious enough to lock up my lungs, but it makes me literally sick. I cough a lot, I have snot dribbling from my nose, and it gets harder to breathe.

There's also the issue of smell. I can't even walk through a trail someone's left behind without gagging.

But in spite of all that, you can't deny people service because they have bad habits. Next up you'll want to deny sexaholics coverage, or drinkers coverage, or so on. Denying people care is a slippery slope.

agreed.

smoking should be up to the individual
healthcare should be provided for all where possible and cost effective
preventative measures should be optional
cult of foamy rules.

 

[thisisyournamenow]

No-one put a gun to your head and said ?you have to smoke or I fucking kill your family" it?s like drinking no-one forced you and it?s not the governments-or other people?s jobs to stop you from doing it.
Yes there human but smoking, drinking and doing drugs can all be stop and are self harm. So they shouldn't get better rights more rights etc from those that do not. Not to mention that second hand smoke if very bad for those that don't smoke it. It?s bad for your health etc.

you can't compare smoking to a real health problem that couldn't have been provented

Kind of like the Escapist lol

 

[BlueMage]

You three, please see my point about having a right to not be interfered with by the actions of another. You have had NOTHING UNDESERVED restricted - you are still free to smoke in your own home.

And what about the rights of a proprietor being interfered with in the name of your choices and views? Don't try and get on the moral high horse here, you're restricting people's freedoms (not only to smoke, but also how people can choose to use their property) based on your personal opinion.

Utterly irrelevant compared to not being interfered with - physically - by the actions of another. If your actions affect the health of another, then your RIGHT to engage in that action doesn't mean shit.

Clearly, you'd be surprised how the exercise of "freedom" tends to infringe on another.

Erm not really, seeing as you're on private property without being compelled in any way. Let me spell it out for you - you are not being forced into a smoky environment, therefore if you go into a pub and inhale smoke, you do so knowing full well that a pub is private property and you have license to enter at the discretion of the publican. It's like walking into a brothel and complaining that prostitutes work there - if you don't like it, don't go. To use your example, how about global warming? If you driving a car or using electricity gained from fossil fuels is contributing to climate change and thus affecting my standard of living, should I be able to force you to stop? From what people seem to insist, climate change is going to kill us all with floods, famines and countless other Biblical plagues...

It seems that you'd be surprised in that there is no 'right' to clean air mentioned in any legal system that I know of - you have no 'right' to force smokers to stop around you, let alone on private property.

I've got every right - they're the ones whose action is infringing physically upon me.

You still don't get it kiddo. Your home is the one and only place where you hold full sway - a place of business, open to the public, constitutes a public place. (Incidentally, this is why I have no objection to the smoking rooms in the VIP rooms of the casino I visit - that's not public, not just any old Joe can wander in.) If I go to your home, and you're a smoker, and I go in (invited) well then - tough shit for me, eh?

So, we get back to physically infringing on another. See, it doesn't MATTER that I, as a non-smoker, walk past a smoker in the street - I'm NOT the one engaging in an action that physically interferes with another. As such, there's no onus upon ME to change what I'm doing - the onus is upon they whose actions are infringing on another.

 

[LockHeart]

I've got every right - they're the ones whose action is infringing physically upon me.

You still don't get it kiddo. Your home is the one and only place where you hold full sway - a place of business, open to the public, constitutes a public place. (Incidentally, this is why I have no objection to the smoking rooms in the VIP rooms of the casino I visit - that's not public, not just any old Joe can wander in.) If I go to your home, and you're a smoker, and I go in (invited) well then - tough shit for me, eh?

So, we get back to physically infringing on another. See, it doesn't MATTER that I, as a non-smoker, walk past a smoker in the street - I'm NOT the one engaging in an action that physically interferes with another. As such, there's no onus upon ME to change what I'm doing - the onus is upon they whose actions are infringing on another.

*sigh*

You don't get it - whether it is public space or not doesn't matter - you are entering private property. You do not have to enter this private property if you do not like what goes on in there, but if you do, then shut the hell up or get out - no one is forcing you to sit there and you do not have an absolute right to enter a pub and demand that you be served: you enter on an implied license that can be revoked at any time by the publican for any reason they like. They, in fact, hold full sway on their property as the owner.

Your non-existant right to clean air is always going to be infringed because there's always going to be someone pumping shit out in one place or another. Do you think that cars should be banned from public spaces as well seeing that you're being forced to inhale toxic chemicals? Or that cleaning products and aerosols should not be used in spaces open to the public in case your lungs react to the many chemicals and solvents present in those substances?

I'll agree with you that it doesn't matter whether you walk past a smoker in the street, you have no legal right to clean air. They can smoke as much as they want in public space, there's no law saying that they can't, nor are they committing an assault (under English law anyway) by doing so.

The main point I'm trying to make is - go elsewhere if you don't like it. Vote with your feet, just don't try and force your views on everyone else.

 

[ddq5]

I mean, smokers are people too. Just people I don't want smoking around me.
I don't like the smell, I have sensitive lungs, and it's just a major turnoff for me. It's not a matter of religion, morality, ethics, or even "think of the children," it's about the people around you. I honestly don't care what intravenous drugs you inject yourself with, just as long as what you're doing affects you and only you.

 

[BlueMage]

I've got every right - they're the ones whose action is infringing physically upon me.

You still don't get it kiddo. Your home is the one and only place where you hold full sway - a place of business, open to the public, constitutes a public place. (Incidentally, this is why I have no objection to the smoking rooms in the VIP rooms of the casino I visit - that's not public, not just any old Joe can wander in.) If I go to your home, and you're a smoker, and I go in (invited) well then - tough shit for me, eh?

So, we get back to physically infringing on another. See, it doesn't MATTER that I, as a non-smoker, walk past a smoker in the street - I'm NOT the one engaging in an action that physically interferes with another. As such, there's no onus upon ME to change what I'm doing - the onus is upon they whose actions are infringing on another.

*sigh*

You don't get it - whether it is public space or not doesn't matter - you are entering private property. You do not have to enter this private property if you do not like what goes on in there, but if you do, then shut the hell up or get out - no one is forcing you to sit there and you do not have an absolute right to enter a pub and demand that you be served: you enter on an implied license that can be revoked at any time by the publican for any reason they like. They, in fact, hold full sway on their property as the owner.

Your non-existant right to clean air is always going to be infringed because there's always going to be someone pumping shit out in one place or another. Do you think that cars should be banned from public spaces as well seeing that you're being forced to inhale toxic chemicals? Or that cleaning products and aerosols should not be used in spaces open to the public in case your lungs react to the many chemicals and solvents present in those substances?

I'll agree with you that it doesn't matter whether you walk past a smoker in the street, you have no legal right to clean air. They can smoke as much as they want in public space, there's no law saying that they can't, nor are they committing an assault (under English law anyway) by doing so.

The main point I'm trying to make is - go elsewhere if you don't like it. Vote with your feet, just don't try and force your views on everyone else.

Still you argue from a legal standpoint. That is ... disappointing. You seem to be asserting that if I, Joe Public, am standing around minding my own, and someone comes along and lights up, I have no recourse but to leave. That, simply, is dead wrong.

You also seem fixated on "my non-existent right to clean air" - I'm curious as to where I ever mentioned a right to clean air. Please, do point it out to me. I think you'll find that the only right I've espoused is the right to not be infringed upon physically by the actions of another. Hitting me with your car falls under that, as does punching me in the face, incidentally.

And for the record, I'm quite happy to see IC-driven cars and trucks off the roads - replace 'em all with plug-in electrics, establish a feed-in tariff as per what Germany has, plaster all roofs in solar panels and viola - massive win for all. One step at a time however - let's just get the 4WDs out of urban areas first.