Poll: EVE all flash no substance?

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Theo Samaritan

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Valid corroded!
Bulletinmybrain said:
Also to theo: Where is that report of why Eve is awesome? Educate the sheepies.
I refuse to give one, mainly because I don't see it prudent to ram my idea's down other peoples throats. Besides I can understand everybody's viewpoint here. Consider me an anti-fanboy. For every fifty fanatics there's someone who doesn't mind either way. I'm that guy =)
 

Lemony

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So that brings up the question of SHOULD game developers like Blizzard and ... um.. the people who made EVE (I don't know...) just show the game itself rather than these Epic Battles of Sheer Awesomeness or display the game as it is. Now Wrath of the Lich King, for those who live under a very big rock, is an expansion. True it is similar to this new EVE expansion but most people know that, "Hey I see this new stuff, I know that WoW will take some time to do that new content, I have seen the older content and it still is nice." So from what I have seen from EVE is, "EPIC BATTLES OF FORCES BEYOND RIDICULOUS (which happens to be redonculous)." Even though they are trying to advertise in a market that Blizzard basically owns, should they just show the best parts and hope that, the idea of those goodies holds them long enough to squeeze as much money out of players or show what the game is like? WoTLK Cinematic do not usually display game play but just an explanation of what the hell is going on. So why can't EVE do that?
I'm not trying to advertise that WoW is better (*thinks that it is, since I have played both*) but I am just showing that, "Hey take a look behind what they are showing."
 

Chas Blackwell

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Well, as someone whose played the game for 3+ years straight now you can probably guess where I come down on this. Eve is a very different game from WoW or pretty much every other MMO out there. Most of those are based on the old MUD model; find some monsters, kill them, get better stuff, etc. That's fine and hey, I liked those games too.

Eve is not a MUD though -- it's more like the old BBS door game TradeWars. And if you join up in Eve with the intention of playing it like WoW or looking for that sort of experience....you aren't going to be happy, and that's perfectly fine. Eve is a very group-oriented game; yes, you can be a solo pirate. You could be a solo miner or just run missions by yourself all day. But most of the game's complexity is not really going to come out at that level, and I'll be the first to admit that Eve's PvE content is pretty lacking at the moment.

However, once you're in a corporation -- a good one anyway -- everything changes. I've been with the same corporation for just over three years now, with the same basic core group of people most of that time. We have come a long way from our humble beginnings and have a lot of stories to tell about epic battles and cooperative struggles. All of that has brought us closer together and given us a unique story no one else can have -- in WoW, if you go on a raid and kill some big monster, someone else has already done that (or will shortly). In Eve, when my corporation fought in the Mito Conflict, we had a unique narrative that even other corporations in the same fight didn't have. That's a big reason I stick with Eve after this long.

As far as "no depth" and that combat is just biggest wins -- well, maybe 1 on 1 or 400 on 400 that's true. But there's a lot of wiggle room in the middle where player skill -- not just character skill -- makes a huge difference. My corporation has beaten fleets twice our size because we're blessed with some of the best fleet commanders in the game (especially for a small corp our size -- around 50 people). I've personally been part of a four ship fleet -- an EW ship, an assault frig, and a pair of interceptors -- that ripped apart cruisers, recon ships, and more right under the nose of reinforcements in many cases, just by using better tactics. This isn't just on a tactical level -- strategically and logistically this all comes into play as well. If you don't think this is true, check out the video from the last couple alliance tournaments (or the one that's coming up), where a lot of the teams have similar setups and yet sometimes there's just a runaway winner. Or where teams come with "unbeatable" setups and get the crap kicked out of them by ships a newbie could fly within a couple months.

Yes, the vast majority of players will never fly a titan, or hell a carrier for that matter. But as someone else said above, in a few days from starting your character you could be participating in a big fleet battle and making a valuable contribution if you want -- you just have to seek it out. Eve's learning curve is steep though, and it can be hard to find a good corporation (and many will be reluctant to take someone just out of the academy), so I certainly have sympathy. You're basically thrown in the deep end and told "have fun!" It's hard to have fun if you're trying to keep from drowning. Once you learn to swim though, it's a blast.

If you want to get involved in fights early on, your best bet may be to join one of the FW corps and try it out. It's not the same as being in a player corporation really, but if you start flying with FW fleets you'll start to get a feeling of what might be possible. Find a friend to join up with and get to know people in the game -- ask around for a corporation doing something you might like, whether it's manufacturing or PvP or exploration or RP or all of it put together. Eve is not a game that is particularly well suited to solo or casual play -- that's the biggest barrier for it, I think.

PS - if you think the CCP trailers are all pre-rendered bullshots, to steal from Penny Arcade, check out some of the fan-made movies.
 

ekimski

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Sep 20, 2008
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well i just started playing and am enjoying it sooooo much

WOW was the last mmo i played and found that to be shallow and slow and i HATE grinding for xp its totally lame, and instances ? so so lame the rare ocasion my buddies and other clanmates let me come along or helped me in one we spent more time stuffing about than fighting

eve on the other hand seems to not have any grind at all you can make plenty of cash realy quickly and once you actually talk to other people in the game its awesome and fun
 

DeusFps

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Sep 3, 2008
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Joshing said:
ekimski said:
well i just started playing and am enjoying it sooooo much

WOW was the last mmo i played and found that to be shallow and slow and i HATE grinding for xp its totally lame, and instances ? so so lame the rare ocasion my buddies and other clanmates let me come along or helped me in one we spent more time stuffing about than fighting

eve on the other hand seems to not have any grind at all you can make plenty of cash realy quickly and once you actually talk to other people in the game its awesome and fun
WOW is slow and you hate grinding, yet you're having fun in Eve? Are some wires short ciruiting somewhere? Eve is the biggest grind of them all bud. If you spent more time stuffing about in WOW than playing, perhaps WOW isn't as shallow as you make it out to be? Stuffing about is all Eve is about. Actually accomplishing something takes forever.

Just saying WOW is slow must mean you never actually played. WOW is the fastest MMO there is as far as feeling like you're accomplishing something. Is anything slower than traveling in Eve or just moving about? Its a snails pace.
Whats this grind bullshit? The grind in this game is completely optional. A good pirate in eve can be one of the best out there even when flying a ship with low skills. Beating somebody that is flying a big flashy ship with something a lot less tamer is called an accomplishment. Not your defeat of some one in WoW because you had better armor. Fastest mmo out there just makes WoW seem shallow and pointless.
 

Metonym

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Jan 21, 2008
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I would´ve considered staying with eve if it had the same take on combat that
the indie^indie "when it´s done" INFINITY seem to have in scope.

And personally I would´ve removed the feeling of a skyboxed chat channel and generic systems that you can´t interact with. EVE is VERY advanced though when it comes to player to player interaction and has a extensive market model.

The "latest" eve-promos is just cgi and footage from action that it takes several months to get into. You never see action from the pointy clicky POV of actual gameplay.'
'

PVE on the other hand was a real turnoff as was the Corrupt behavior of certain GMs wich was the REAL reason I logged out for good.
 

ekimski

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Sep 20, 2008
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Joshing said:
DeusFps said:
Whats this grind bullshit? The grind in this game is completely optional. A good pirate in eve can be one of the best out there even when flying a ship with low skills. Beating somebody that is flying a big flashy ship with something a lot less tamer is called an accomplishment. Not your defeat of some one in WoW because you had better armor. Fastest mmo out there just makes WoW seem shallow and pointless.
But you're assuming the actual battle system in Eve is actually thrilling or exciting for the vast majority of people? You'd be wrong=) I wouldn't discount the accomplishment of blowing up a bigger ship, but is it YOUR accomplshment or just the fact that you happened to run into a mismatch and he decided to actually fight instead of leave?

By the way, I've deafeated too many people to count in WOW that had superior gear to mine or because I could react quicker and counter/interupt their abilities. How much quick thinking and reaction time is occuring in your average Eve fight? Not much. Most Eve fights are decided before the encounter rather than during, right?

ahh i see the problem now we are arguing between 2 very different games
i cant stand level based rpgs
and you prefer tactics over strategy

in all fairness im sure WOW is a much better game at lvl 60+ as my mates keep trying to show me but spending 6 months harvesting critters for their body parts to get there is dull and shallow,
id much rather be mining in the back ground while listening to music and doing other things


and as for eve being snails pace compared to WOW is a totaly redundant thing to say because id say they are about on par while moving about an area ( warp compared to riding/flying)
but then taking a griffin between areas takes for ever compared with jumping oh unless you are a newb in WOW then its all feet for the first 4 months of play !! awesome times
 

DeusFps

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Sep 3, 2008
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Joshing said:
How much quick thinking and reaction time is occuring in your average Eve fight? Not much. Most Eve fights are decided before the encounter rather than during, right?
Have you even played eve?
 

Amoreyna

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Jan 12, 2009
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protogenxl said:
As somone who only plays eve I have to ask. In world of warcraft are you participating in massive raids during the trial period if you come into the game and know no other players?
No usually not - although most new players have no real desire to go on raids. In order to be able to do a raid you have to at least be the same level as the guards of the area in order not to die repeatedly. Most raids have the goal of killing a faction leader so you also have to be able to fight against a high lvl boss.

Now that doesn't mean you don't get into player killing early on. The first two questing zones are friendly to your faction and then you are sent into contested areas. In these areas you can attack anyone of the opposing faction regardlss of level. You don't have to know any other players in order to take part and you can enlist the aid of others by simply using the chat channels and asking for help.

From what you're saying it sounds like participating in a large raid during the first two weeks is a possibility in Eve. Unfortunately that wasn't my experience and looking at other comments, it wasn't anyone elses experience either.

To all those who say that you have to play longer then the 14 day trial to get into Eve:

A trial version of a game exists for the sole reason of selling the game. It fails if people play it and don't want to continue past the two weeks. It fails even more miserably if it can't even contain enough content to give players an idea of what is possible if the continue to play for a while. Saying that you have to plod along in a game for a couple of months before you get to any of the really good parts is like saying you have to eat all the ingredients for a cake seperately before you can have them all baked together. Getting things peice by peice over a long period of time can fustrate people if they're not sure what the reward is.
 

Jenny Creed

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May 7, 2008
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Treat Eve like life. What you get out of it is what you put into it. It's open-ended (directionless) enough to be really boring and pointless in itself, just like life. The fun parts don't happen, the meaning isn't there, unless you make the effort to create it for yourself.

The glamorous scenes of the trailers can happen to you. But you'll have to direct players and work the camera for that to happen. You can run a banking scam and disappear with eighty thousand million stardollars just like the legendary players of yore, although you'll have to work ten times as hard as them to gain the same amount of trust. You can be the biggest and baddest big cheese of the galaxy and direct tens of thousands of minions in battle, but you'll have to work harder than every other jerk trying to do the same.

What I'm saying is that Eve has nearly infinite potential, but requires you to work to make it happen, and it's damn hard. Personally I prefer to direct my efforts into real life instead. Although the game is incredibly pretty. . .
 

Rust Gun

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Jan 19, 2009
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I found it unbearably slow and empty. It felt like I was all alone in this vast empty plane with pirates and ore. I also agree with ZP that the leveling system is...odd, original but tiring. The economy is intimidating for new players, you need someone on the inside to help you start playing this game.

Help to -start- playing a game? What?
 

Volstag9

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Apr 28, 2008
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I played it past for a few months, mined alot. never got into a coorporation. Liked its idea and all about its open-ness but rarley met any players that didnt mine all the time maybe ill try it again. (Came back twice) but unless i find something else to do i wont come back but you never know.

When i played it seemed like EVE was all flash
 

Jenny Creed

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May 7, 2008
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About 14 dollars per month, with the usual discounts for several months at once. Or I think 2-300 million in-game moneys.
 

Zac_Dai

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Oct 21, 2008
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One day I'm going to do a massive write up of my experiences in EVE just to show what can be done.

I really wouldn't call it a game either, its more like the Ayn Rand World Simulator 3000. What other MMO would allow you to actually rule the galaxy?

I can understand why people say its boring because its not a Themepark like WoW and other MMOs, its a true sandbox in the sense you make you're own fun.

This caters to only a minority of people hence why it has a small but steady subscriber base.