Poll: EVE-Online, first actual serious trouble signs or business as usual ?

[Tibike77]

For those of you unaware of what's going on, CCP (the developers of EVE-Online) have recently rolled out a brand new forum (allegedly developed "in-house" with over 72000 man-hours invested) that did not carry over any of its predecessor's content for some obscure reason, then locked the old forum to force everybody to switch over, only to have it explode in their faces.
The kicker is that apparently, the new forums were heavily based on YAF (http://yetanotherforum.net), a free open source piece of software, with most of the default files still there for everybody to see (so much for a painstakingly in-house developed forum), but with a host of security problems caused by the CCP team's efforts to strip out functionality and integrate it with their existing social networking.

Shortly after they went live, a player exploited some gaping security holes ( http://www.machine9.net/blog/?p=592 ) to publicly humiliate the dev team, which lead to his ban and a temporary takedown of the new forums.
http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=4518&tid=1

The new forums allowed anybody with the proper knowledge to post as anybody else (including to impersonate CCP staff), access forum moderator functions, inject HTML into signatures, even going so far as being possible to INSTALL A KEYLOGGER on some of the machines visiting the compromised forums (if they were not properly secured).
Not long after the forums came back up patched, the same player posted again from his already banned account proving that the fixes weren't quite that good.

The forums were taken down multiple times afterwards, with the only official methods of communication being static messages on the site, and feedback left on Facebook ( http://www.facebook.com/eveonline ).
Needless to say, the comments left there were not entirely positive (actually, quite the understatement).
Despite assurances to the contrary whenever the new forums came back online for a while, the old forums were finally reopened and the new ones closed down without a clear timeline for their reopening.

The official announcement thread (in the old forums) : http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1493904
The community backlash has been quite nasty, even going so far as claiming that this fiasco was not actually something new or unexpected, but the result of the direction the company was pursuing.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1494277
...and many others like it.

Doomsayers even predict there that the entire financial foundation of CCP may soon start crumbling.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1493997

So, if you're interested in EVE for any reason, have been a player or still are a player, or just want to give it your two cents... vote and comment !

 

[Frotality]

wha-

i played EVE for a while, and considering the number of people who get multiple accounts i have to chalk up this 'new' direction to greed. sounds as though the community still has its integrity, unlike some fanboys who would go right along with blatant attempts to cash-in on social networking; hopefully CCP will realize their mistake and actually stick with their fanbase.

it really saddens me to hear this; EVE had one of the most dedicated and fun communities in recent memory, i cant imagine CCP being so greedy as to risk alienating them all for a 'wider' audience. if i had the time, i would still play it... but maybe not after hearing about this. ill always have the official soundtrack at least...

 

[Tibike77]

Also, let's not forget the utterly humiliating defeat of CCP Games against Bethesda in round one of this year's March Mayhem (I believe it was a resounding 90%/10% split).

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Also, let's not forget the utterly humiliating defeat of CCP Games against Bethesda in round one of this year's March Mayhem (I believe it was a resounding 90%/10% split).

Well, they had no fucking chance, to be honest. MM's first round is pretty much rigged.

I don't see this as a very terrible thing, really. They'll open the old forums, if they know what's good for them, though. Not like the game itself shutdown or anything.

 

[Tibike77]

Well, they had no fucking chance, to be honest. MM's first round is pretty much rigged.

Except for Mojang//Minecraft, eh ?
When people LIKE their devs and are happy with what they do... but people were no longer happy about CCP.
Last year, they made it relatively far, this year, the userbase basically abandoned them.
It was almost certain they would lose, but the margin of the loss was what was telling.

I don't see this as a very terrible thing, really. They'll open the old forums, if they know what's good for them, though. Not like the game itself shutdown or anything.

They did reopen the old forums, with the new ones on hold.
But again, the issue is with how they do things and the worrying direction almost everything seems to be heading, with the forums being just one of the symptoms.

 

[Pandalisk]

See i was planning to buy EvE online but since reading the forum links i've reconsidered.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Well, they had no fucking chance, to be honest. MM's first round is pretty much rigged.

Except for Mojang//Minecraft, eh ?

They were really the only upset. In every match they went in.

Otherwise, the brackets flowed like butter.

Valve was placed against Double Fine, to guarantee a win there. Psychonauts has a loyal fanbase, but it was Valve.

Hell, last year's Round 1 was Valve vs TREASURE. Not many people here even know of Treasure.

 

[Arachon]

Look, every single time something goes awry in EVE, or anything remotely related to EVE, half the fanbase will gladly declare that "EVE is dying", it's been happening since I started playing 3 years ago, and as far as I know, it's probably happened ever since launch. Yet the game is still there. This seems to be business as usual.

 

[Tibike77]

Look, every single time something goes awry in EVE, or anything remotely related to EVE, half the fanbase will gladly declare that "EVE is dying", it's been happening since I started playing 3 years ago, and as far as I know, it's probably happened ever since launch. Yet the game is still there. This seems to be business as usual.

And until recently, the subscription graphs flew in the face of people claiming EVE was dying.
Now, they tell a different picture.

Spoiler

Source : official Quarterly Economic Newsletter (Q4 2010), page 8.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/QEN/QEN_Q4-2010.pdf

It might take a couple of years or even longer, but...
...we're talking about a company that was touting words like "excellence" and "delivery" when talking about their own content
...a company proud of their almost perfectly linear growth in subscriber counts for the last half of a decade
...and last but not least, a company claiming to want to be the ones to finally implement a full sci-fi simulator in the distant future, while remaining in business with EVE for decades to come.

 

[Mister Six]

Look, every single time something goes awry in EVE, or anything remotely related to EVE, half the fanbase will gladly declare that "EVE is dying", it's been happening since I started playing 3 years ago, and as far as I know, it's probably happened ever since launch. Yet the game is still there. This seems to be business as usual.

And until recently, the subscription graphs flew in the face of people claiming EVE was dying.
Now, they tell a different picture.

Spoiler

Source : official Quarterly Economic Newsletter (Q4 2010), page 8.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/QEN/QEN_Q4-2010.pdf

It might take a couple of years or even longer, but...
...we're talking about a company that was touting words like "excellence" and "delivery" when talking about their own content
...a company proud of their almost perfectly linear growth in subscriber counts for the last half of a decade
...and last but not least, a company claiming to want to be the ones to finally implement a full sci-fi simulator in the distant future, while remaining in business with EVE for decades to come.

That dip is to be expected after a faux pau like that, but I don't think it spells doom or anything like that. Similar dips happen in all games after any changes as the playerbase has a knee jerk reaction, in all honesty the best way CCP could handle this would to just issue an apology, own up to their mistake and keep on trucking.

 

[Tibike77]

That dip is to be expected after a faux pau like that, but I don't think it spells doom or anything like that. Similar dips happen in all games after any changes as the playerbase has a knee jerk reaction, in all honesty the best way CCP could handle this would to just issue an apology, own up to their mistake and keep on trucking.

The game runs on a "two MAJOR expansions each year" cycle.
The "changes cause dips" is not even beginning to explain anything at all.
How come those past changes barely touched the graphs, but recently, the story changed ?

Also, the data you see there DOES NOT contain anything from this year, it's only up to the end of 2010.
The "faux pas" we're talking about here happened a couple of days ago, so more than a full quarter year beyond any data you see on the graph.

 

[shiig]

While all this happened, how many people were still logged in to the servers? Probably enough.

 

[Tibike77]

While all this happened, how many people were still logged in to the servers? Probably enough.

STILL enough. But just for now. That's kind of the point.
http://www.machine9.net/blog/?p=592
This is "teenage web experimentation" level security, not 600-man strong company level security.

 

[shiig]

While all this happened, how many people were still logged in to the servers? Probably enough.

STILL enough. But just for now. That's kind of the point.
http://www.machine9.net/blog/?p=592
This is "teenage web experimentation" level security, not 600-man strong company level security.

My big point is that in a week or two, when said 600 men fix everything down, everything with a subscription will rush right back into the game. The game is kind of addicting... I still have random urges to go play it, and I've been off it since October. There won't be some kind of mass exodus because of some forum issues, because there's really no game that compares to EVE well enough to be a proper substitute. Plus, it takes forever to get anywhere in that game, which means people won't want to give it, and all that they've made (even virtually), up.

Basically, EVE passed critical mass a long time ago, and it would take some more major f&$k ups than this for it to die.

 

[Tibike77]

Basically, EVE passed critical mass a long time ago, and it would take some more major f&$k ups than this for it to die.

You mean, the kind of screwups that have been happening more often as of late ?
Yeah, I agree, it WILL take a lot more screwups for EVE to go down.
But the point, again, is that this seems to be a trend rather than an accident.

 

[Irridium]

That dip is to be expected after a faux pau like that, but I don't think it spells doom or anything like that. Similar dips happen in all games after any changes as the playerbase has a knee jerk reaction, in all honesty the best way CCP could handle this would to just issue an apology, own up to their mistake and keep on trucking.

A company owning up to its mistakes?

HA!

 

[weker]

I don't full comprehend what all this means sadly as i found it confusing.
From what I understood they had a tech problem and some sort of tech choice which stops some players using it.
I doubt this would kill a game which has become a second life for many(surpassing wows devoted fan base with ease)

 

[shiig]

Basically, EVE passed critical mass a long time ago, and it would take some more major f&$k ups than this for it to die.

You mean, the kind of screwups that have been happening more often as of late ?
Yeah, I agree, it WILL take a lot more screwups for EVE to go down.
But the point, again, is that this seems to be a trend rather than an accident.

On the level of screw-ups that would be required, this is comparatively a single gear needing to be replaced. The kind of mistakes that would need to happen for EVE to die would be something along the lines of patches deleting accounts or creating code paths that fried computers or wiped hard drives.

 

[Tibike77]

On the level of screw-ups that would be required, this is comparatively a single gear needing to be replaced. The kind of mistakes that would need to happen for EVE to die would be something along the lines of patches deleting accounts or creating code paths that fried computers or wiped hard drives.

boot.ini
OS reinstall needed after game patch ? Yes please !

Subscriber number increase is slowing down, it will eventually reach a peak, then it will trend downhill... and the fact older players are increasingly disgruntled is not going to help things.
This is a departure from everything that happened in EVE so far, and would put it on par with almost every other MMO out there.
If EVE becomes "just another MMO" it might as well be dead.

 

[weker]

On the level of screw-ups that would be required, this is comparatively a single gear needing to be replaced. The kind of mistakes that would need to happen for EVE to die would be something along the lines of patches deleting accounts or creating code paths that fried computers or wiped hard drives.

boot.ini
OS reinstall needed after game patch ? Yes please !

Subscriber number increase is slowing down, it will eventually reach a peak, then it will trend downhill... and the fact older players are increasingly disgruntled is not going to help things.
This is a departure from everything that happened in EVE so far, and would put it on par with almost every other MMO out there.
If EVE becomes "just another MMO" it might as well be dead.

Dust 512 or whatever its called will bring new life to the game methinks