Poll: Evolution vs Creationism NO FLAMEWARS PLEASE

[Cliff_m85]

Heres a bit of a thought provoker for evolutionists like me.

Through gene mapping it has been proven that all humans alive today had a single common female ancestor. The team who discovered this have nicknamed her Eve.

Science possibly proving creationism right?

I named my right testicle 'God', thus proving that God exists?


Naming something after a character in the Bible =/= that character existing. Especially when scientists know that someone gave birth to Eve.

 

[ygetoff]

Evolutionist

Although I'm quite sure that there are some minor flaws in theory of evolution, it has more scientific evidence than creationism. If there was a better theory than either of them, then I would side with it, but it's too hard not to take a side.

 

[lenin_117]

First off, I'd like to point out that asking people to avoid flames in a God topic is like asking a starved rabid bear in national park to refrain from eating people.

Now that that's out of the way, I believe in both. It's baffling, isn't it?

Does that mean you beleive in creationism through evolution? Oh and you can do that to a bear. With iron cages and if need be, bullets.

 

[Yankmy Armoff]

So why don't we have several useless organs? WE DO! the appendix, the remains of a tail (the coccyx) several areas of brain the no longer have any measurable function. we have useless organs that are slowly shrinking and disappearing over the generations.

 

[Sindre1]

I Europe, noone belives in creationism.
You Americans are gullible ^^ Trying to pass off religion as science

Just go away. You are both very very wrong (trying to tell me that religion does not exist in Europe!) you are also trolling. So bugger off.

/facepalm
I said creationism, not religion. We have religion.

I am not trolling (whatever that means). Gullible is a compliment. Like cute.

 

[Captain_Caveman]

there's no right answer unless we can invent a time machine.

evolution has the most evidence & can be observed happening now. but even if everything happened through evolution, there's no way of telling when/how/how fast & why. the largest hole in human evolution is the lack of a missing link.

aliens could have beamed up some animals, genetically modified them and beamed them back down for all we know. or there could be some omnipotent, unobservable force for all we know. or it could have all happened naturally.

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

I believe in Evolutionism. I've seen fossils, you can actually track the evolution of species

 

[kaziard]

So why don't we have several useless organs? It be beneficial to survival or it would be just as likely to develop as a false kidney.

As a matter of fact, we do. We have plenty of parts in our body we can do without, or are vestigial to use the correct term. For example, the muscles in our ears are so weak that they're completly useless. Lots of animals can move their ears, we can't, those muscles are too weak. More examples are listed here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vestigiality]. There are also plenty of examples from other animals, even extinct one's. The ancestors of whales for example, have those tinsy tiny shrunken hind legs.

some food for thought, the very first organ on that list (the appendix) is actually used in conjunction with production of some of the bodies defences.

 

[lenin_117]

I Europe, noone belives in creationism.
You Americans are gullible ^^ Trying to pass off religion as science

Just go away. You are both very very wrong (trying to tell me that religion does not exist in Europe!) you are also trolling. So bugger off.

Actually he's right. Creationism is nothing but religion.

Oh, yeah, I agree with that. (Kudos if you get the reference)

 

[Yankmy Armoff]

Heres a bit of a thought provoker for evolutionists like me.

Through gene mapping it has been proven that all humans alive today had a single common female ancestor. The team who discovered this have nicknamed her Eve.

Science possibly proving creationism right?

I named my right testicle 'God', thus proving that God exists?


Naming something after a character in the Bible =/= that character existing. Especially when scientists know that someone gave birth to Eve.

I wasnt saying that them naming her eve was proof of anything. just pointing out the bible says we have a common female ancestor and science (currently) agrees. THAT was the interesting thing, the reference to eve is no doubt some scientists attempt at humour, i left it in for the same reason

 

[Skeleon]

Evolutionist.

I guess my main issue with Creationism is, that saying "God did it, he's omnipotent" can be used on pretty much everything (for example "he can make stuff look older than it is" in response to Carbon Dating). If accepted without discussion, this would stop people researching and scrutinizing established "fact".

In science, a theory is established and considered "fact" until proven wrong, progress is pretty much predestined, new proof and knowledge also.

Also, when looking at our (or other animals') bodies, there are a lot of things that don't reek of paticularily intelligent design.
Why do we have tail bones?
Why can't we see ultraviolet and infrared?
Why do our cells tend to get out of control and kill us as cancer?
Again, one might simply answer "because god wanted it this way" but this will get us nowhere.

Creationism is stagnation and that is why I am opposed to it.

 

[The Infamous Scamola]

Yes. Yes you do have to go on a rant. Don't be lazy. If you want to say something without backing it up that's fine. In the sandpit. But here you have to explain yourself and not leave it to others to prove you right.

Ok, I don't believe a big magical bearded man created Adam(man) from dust and Eve(woman) from one of Adam's ribs.

One side has hardcore facts and proof and the other has the fairy tale I just told you.

 

[Cowabungaa]

I Europe, noone belives in creationism.
You Americans are gullible ^^ Trying to pass off religion as science

Just go away. You are both very very wrong (trying to tell me that religion does not exist in Europe!) you are also trolling. So bugger off.

/facepalm
I said creationism, not religion. We have religion.

I am not trolling (whatever that means). Gullible is a compliment. Like cute.

Won't call gullible a compliment really. But he's right, it's nonsense we in Europe don't have creationists. Early this year, creationists in Holland started a small offensive, publishing flyers filled with scientific bullshit and spreading them all over the country. If I recall correctly, the UK and Ireland also have their fair share of 'creo-tards' as they're sometimes lovingly named.

So why don't we have several useless organs? It be beneficial to survival or it would be just as likely to develop as a false kidney.

As a matter of fact, we do. We have plenty of parts in our body we can do without, or are vestigial to use the correct term. For example, the muscles in our ears are so weak that they're completly useless. Lots of animals can move their ears, we can't, those muscles are too weak. More examples are listed here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vestigiality]. There are also plenty of examples from other animals, even extinct one's. The ancestors of whales for example, have those tinsy tiny shrunken hind legs.

some food for thought, the very first organ on that list (the appendix) is actually used in conjunction with production of some of the bodies defences.

Yup, that's exactly what it says as well ;-)

In line with the possibility of vestigial organs developing new functions, some research suggests that the appendix may guard against the loss of symbiotic bacteria that aid in digestion.[3][4]

 

[macapus]

Here's the thing. I believe that evolution created people and the like, but what created the event that created the chunk of rock that eventually became Earth. The universe is expanding, but into WHAT? The fact is that the proof of the creationists in the flaws and unexplained occurences in evolutionism. It is much easier to accept the idea that an all-powerful supernatural divine being is looking out for us that to accept the fact that there are probably many things that we are not capable of understanding and many things that we will never know and many people cannot accept the fact that they will not know everything and that we as a race are incapable of exploring or understanding certain concepts. Evolutionism is sound until you go before the earth, and many people would rather take the answer that there is a god who greated everything, as opposed the "we will never ever know." Not knowing something makes people feel inferior and unsafe. There is no evidence for Creationism, there are just the flaws of evolutionism that it proposes to fix.

 

[lenin_117]

So why don't we have several useless organs? It be beneficial to survival or it would be just as likely to develop as a false kidney.

As a matter of fact, we do. We have plenty of parts in our body we can do without, or are vestigial to use the correct term. For example, the muscles in our ears are so weak that they're completly useless. Lots of animals can move their ears, we can't, those muscles are too weak. More examples are listed here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_vestigiality]. There are also plenty of examples from other animals, even extinct one's. The ancestors of whales for example, have those tinsy tiny shrunken hind legs.

But we can see where those came from. Once we needed to move our ears, now we don't. Whales may have needed legs at some point (but I question the idea that they have shrunke hind legs). The difference is you were suggesting useless body parts just developing over time then fitting together to do something.

 

[curlycrouton]

An interesting and somewhat alarming story on the subject of Creationism:

I'm currently in the upper Sixth Form at your average secondary school, and an alarming incident happened about a month ago, even though a lot of the people around me thought nothing of it.

It was another assembly, the end of the week, everyone was tired. We were all expecting another trivial talk, but instead we noticed one of the school's Product Design teachers walk onstage. Now, we all knew him, as he's a pretty decent guy, but what he proceeded to say did alarm me.

He said, more or less, that Creationism is the only true story about the creation of Earth. He then said that his reasoning was that "All this scientific stuff is so complicated, surely if God wants us to understand how our world was made, he would have told us? And he has, it's all in the Bible". He also said "I can't understand all this science things, but the Creation story makes so much sense".

He was basically saying he believed in Creationism because he didn't understand Evolution. Call me irrational, but the theory of Evolution isn't particularily hard to understand, at least in its most basic form.

So there he was, preaching Creationism in a state-run school, and not a single member of the school staff (there were three present) questioned or stopped him. It was disturbing, to say the least.

 

[Thegoodfriar]

Well since everyone else in the world already commented on the "No Flamewars" Issue, I won't beat a dead horse.

But to thwack another dead equine I do support Evolution. Additionally God and Evolution are not mutually exclusive, if God does exist it doesn't necessarily mean that Intelligent Design is the one true creation belief. Simultaneously if we did evolve from primates it does not mean that God does or does not exist... so arguing about if God exists due to the existence of Evolution is like arguing if oranges come from an apple tree.

 

[fletch_talon]

I believe evolution is more than just a theory its common sense. We know mutation occurs in species' populations. Natural selection is just logic, if you're more capable of surviving than someone else, then you're more likely to survive... DUH!

But does this translate into your race gaining new features?

If a giraffe with a longer neck reaches the most nutritious leaves it will prosper and pass on its genes, eventually because it has this advantage and it is competing with other giraffes it is highly likely to eliminate the other giraffe from the gene pool. Therefore we end up with a species comprised of long necked giraffes.

So in regards to evolution, the only debate I see is whether the Earth has existed long enough for evolution to take place. Creationists constantly try to point out flaws in science's reasoning, but since everytime I see them attempt to do so its an epic phail on their side, I have trouble taking them seriously.

For example, some creationists or (intelligent design theorists) will claim that a complex adaptation of an animal can't have developed by evolution because it woud need to do so piece by piece, and that one piece on its own provides no benefit.
The flaw? A mutation doesn't need to be beneficial in order to survive, it helps certainly, and having a negative effect on the creature's survival rate will hinder its chances, but the fact is, the organism with that trait has as much chance of passing its genes on as the organisms without said trait.

So why don't we have several useless organs? It must be beneficial to survival or it would be just as likely to develop as a false kidney.

Its my understanding that our organs are quite snug inside of us. My biology teacher would frequently remind us that they aren't just floating around inside our skin, they're next to each other, fitting quite well. Hence any superfluous organs would be taking valuable space from the ones we need.

In saying that I believe the appendix is supposed to be a remnant from our days as herbivores and has since shrunk and become unnecessary. It wouldn't surprise me if there are, or have been people who had no appendix and are passing on that gene, if it weren't for appendectomy operations I would consider a future without appendixes a possibility, but since we have more or less eliminated natural selection from society, I doubt we'll see evolution of humans for a long time.

 

[Sindre1]

I Europe, noone belives in creationism.
You Americans are gullible ^^ Trying to pass off religion as science

Just go away. You are both very very wrong (trying to tell me that religion does not exist in Europe!) you are also trolling. So bugger off.

/facepalm
I said creationism, not religion. We have religion.

I am not trolling (whatever that means). Gullible is a compliment. Like cute.

Won't call gullible a compliment really. But he's right, it's nonsense we in Europe don't have creationists. Early this year, creationists in Holland started a small offensive, publishing flyers filled with scientific bullshit and spreading them all over the country. If I recall correctly, the UK and Ireland also have their fair share of 'creo-tards' as they're sometimes lovingly named.

I stand corrected. Have not reached Norway yet. I think :/

 

[hopeneverdies]

If any divine deity is proven to exist, yeah okay. But no one can deny that evolution is real. If animals didn't evolve, they couldn't adapt to changes in the world and would simply die off.
Oh and God, I think your watch runs a bit slow, really, that the world has only been around 2034 years? Kinda unbelievable.