Poll: fallout 4's analysis/ problem with a voiced protagonist

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Flames66

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Areloch said:
Having characters you're talking to be fully emotive and articulate as they talk to you, and then the camera goes back to your blank-faced, staring-into-the-void character who then doesn't actually say anything you select felt far, far weirder than "Well that's not the voice I imagined for this character".

Personal preference, no doubt, but "My character is barely more than a wooden board with a face on it in the middle of this epic conversation" feels way worse than "That's not the voice I thought" to me.
This is why I prefer the camera to be locked inside my character during conversations. I want text options showing exactly what I am going to say so I can interpret the phrasing and pick the best option. With fully written out dialogue options I can figure out the meaning myself and then imagine it spoken in my voice, or the voice I imagine my character to have. If I have designed my character, giving them a prerecorded voice is unacceptable. It would have been less jarring if they had designed everything about the character. You can have a pre-written character or I can design my own, you cannot have it both ways.

To the people saying "give it a chance", I already did with the Mass Effect games and I didn't like it. I might give it a little go with the stock character after I play through as myself.

It looks like I will have to wait until someone makes a mod that not only removes the voice files, but also goes through every single line of dialogue and writes out fully what they are.
 

Akjosch

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I seriously dislike voiced dialogue for expansive, highly moddable games in general, and Bethesda's implementation of it in particular (for example: you have to include a voice file - even if it's of silence - for the subtitle to display for longer than a frame or two ...). So I voted "other" - specifically, I'm of the opinion that all the money sunk into voice acting would be better spent into improving speech synthesis and usage thereof.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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I don't mind it being voiced as long as I can turn the voice off if I want, I never find it matches my character and I find that really jarring, even in games where the character creators are much more rudimentary.

I don't like the idea of the abbreviated dialogue wheel either, full text all the way.

Can't say either of those would be absolute deal breakers for me, but yeah, if it came out like that it would probably relegate it to steam sale territory rather than full price. Although given the state of the last 2 on release I think it'll probably take until the 1st steam sale to iron out all the bugs and make it playable for more than 5 minutes without a CTD anyway :p
 

PhantomEcho

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Marxie said:
harrisongrimms said:
Ooh look at me, I know some basic concepts of Anarchism....better use it to completely derail a topic completely unrelated to it.
There's a lot more to property concepts than just Anarchism, Capitalism and Communism. And it's as fine topic as any.

harrisongrimms said:
And everyone forgets that the Protagonist is Fallout 3 DID have a voice....when they were a baby.
Wow. So effect. Much change. No comment.

harrisongrimms said:
And if your complaining about the character in Fallout 4 having a voice......just wait for a modder to take it out, or turn down your voice and turn upo subtitles. There are options.
It's not the presence of a voice that pisses people off. It's the fact that fully voiced dialogues mean less dialogue options and variety, plus the dreaded dialogue wheel that reduces chunks of meaning and shades of character to a couple of words sitting on one of roleplay generalizations.

Javetts Eall Raksha said:
Like this fellow up there says. It's not too hard to understand.
Oh wow... the guy up there who got suspended for calling you a total lunatic was not at all wrong. In all your posturing and bluster about the nature of ownership, you seem to have missed the part where YOU are the man with the gun trying to take something he has no power to take. From the frankly absurd belief that somehow STEALING the game makes it less Bethesda's because you didn't pay for it, to speaking for LONG TIME fans of the series such as myself who simply disagree with you on every point regarding what Bethesda has done with the property, you're the living embodiment of the 'entitled fan' shouting and raging into the void out of some desperate notion that if you just scream a little LOUDER this time... the universe will be forced to bend to your whim and everything will be as it should have been.

We have a word for that. Delusional. But it's okay, because like you said... you're not alone. Fallout is a wonderful series, one which was done a great injustice by the people in charge at Interplay. The betrayal its fans experienced, from the abomination that was "Fallout: PoS" to the ultimate cancellation of Van Buren and shuttering of Black Isle, created a festering wound of the heart and mind. I speak metaphorically, of course... Interplay has, to my knowledge, not caused any LITERAL manifestations of heart disease or failure or brain damage. You're a victim of a great wronging, as I was... but you've let it eat away at your mental well-being. It's not too late to come back from the ledge you've perched yourself upon. You don't have to lose yourself to the abyss.

Personally, on the points where you were ACTUALLY discussing Fallout 4, I find your concerns to be perfectly reasonable. I disagree with them, because I find them to be the typical short-sighted cynicism of many old-school fans regarding just about ANY given change to the game, but there's no denying that there's a very real potential that Bethesda shit the bed with their decision to voice the protagonist and that player agency over the character may very well suffer.

On the other hand, I was never OPPOSED to the attempts by games like Brotherhood of Steel or Tactics to tell a linear and coherent story. I enjoy a good story as much as I do a free-roaming romp through the wastelands. As long as there's enough room for me to wander around and do my thing before coming back to the central plot... or perhaps save my roving for AFTER the story is done... that's fine by me. I don't absolutely NEED 80-billion different ways to tell James McFiddlydump to die in a fire to be satisfied. All I care about is that the dialogue I -do- get has some meaningful impact, which is something New Vegas did very, very right.
 

ThatVeryRandomGuy

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I think voiced dialogue for Fallout is a bad idea, you've got to have multiple responses to each NPC line, extra dialogue for skill checks that are either enough or too low, extra dialogue for doing missions and things in different orders, different dialogue for when you have the right/wrong amoung of reputation/karma and the entire game needs another set of PC dialogue for when the PC rolls a character with low intelligence. Seems a lot of work, I've not played a lot of Mass Effect but it didn't have to include extra dialogue for all your stats/skills, just for Renegade/Paragon.

And if you add spoken dialogue modders can't add in their own quests or even responses ('Two Bears hi-fiving')

Also I like to know what I'm saying before I say it, not just a vague couple of words summary.
 

major_chaos

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Feb 3, 2011
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I'm absolutely 100% happy with voiced protag. Having a silent PC in a voiced game is incredibly jarring and one of several big reasons I never finished DA:O, and the already weak story in Fallout leaves me playing as an emotionless cardboard cutout.

As someone who plays P&P RPGs I find the whole "muh emershun!" argument kinda moot as well. Never once in Fallout did I consistently have response choices that let me RP a very specific character, at best I can set a general tone. Its just not feasible for games to allow true rollplaying, if that's what you want find some people to play Exalted or Pathfinder with, videogames are far better off giving you a base character and letting you decide their personality on a scale. (See: Mass Effect, DX:HR)
 

Tuxedoman

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I threw other down as my opinion, and let me just say why.

Never in my life have I ever played a Bethesda game to meet interesting characters, or to experience a grand story. I can not care less if the character is voiced or not, and wouldn't lose sleep over it staying or going.

I see the topic of story content in mods being an issue, so here's my two cents on that. Why does the mod have to have a voice for the player character then? I'm willing to bet money on people who read huge amounts of PC text dialogue are a severely in the minority, since you mostly want to hear what the NPC's have to say.

On the topic of mods, who says there wont be a mod that sets the 'Y' button to just cycle through conversation options? The voice does not 'limit' modders in any way, shape or form. What it does do is set a bar that modders can't match unless they manage to get the PC's voice actor in for some work.

Also, this also adds the option for modders to make voice packs for the PC. Think about it, playing through fallout as a bipedial duck that actually talks like a duck. That's the future!

But in all seriousness, I couldn't care less either way about this. I haven't downloaded a single story mod in Skyrim, I doubt I will in Fallout, and I couldn't care less about the character interactions in a Bethesda title. And although I know I have no right to say "u kant enjoy smthing i thnk is dum", if you're playing a Bethesda title for its gripping plotlines and invested characters, maaaaybe its time to expand your rpg collection a little.
 

Ricardo Lima

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May 4, 2012
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If the game has resources to voice acted I see no reason not to let play without it just text, but a some games kinda of already allow with diferent volumes of voice for music, Voices and effects and subtitles.
 

immortalfrieza

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I'd say this has the potential to be a very, very, good thing. It doesn't look like they are doing this half assed either, so it probably will live up to that potential in some ways.

For instance, with a system that was extensive enough to allow the player to control the pitch somewhat like the one Saints Row used the player could create a voice that sounds almost exactly like theirs or to that of someone else that they could actually hear instead of having to imagine, which would help with the roleplaying, not to mention the hilarity potential (ALVIN!!!).

A voice provides tone to the conversation, angry, sarcastic, sad, whatever and the NPCs can properly react to that. With a silent protagonist unless the line was blatantly obvious sometimes you could select a line then find the NPC react in a way that is completely contrary to what the player imagines that line to sound like i.e. "are you okay?" intended to be kind with a response from the NPC like "Enough with the sarcasm! Dick!" It's so much easier to be immersed in a world when you don't have to imagine how your character sounds like and can actually hear what they feel, especially for a person like me that has autism and thus has difficulty understanding how other people are feeling by words and facial expression alone. Speaking of which, the third person view in conversations will also help the character visibly emote in their face and body language.

The dialog interface (which contrary to the claims most people are making actually resembles that of Telltale games much more than it does Mass Effect, the Mass Effect dialog wheel is actually less limited as a matter of fact) both is much less distracting and it's brief summary allows the player to get the gist of what is going to be said and as elsewhere mentioned the general intention due to button position, which makes things less predictable and as the OP mentioned is less insulting to the player's intelligence. It also doesn't seem to be limiting what the typical Fallout games have for dialog options in any given conversation either, as there was very rarely more than 4 options to say to most NPCs in any given conversation besides asking them questions or asking them if you could buy from them anyway and if the conversations so far are any indication there's only 4 options in any given EXCHANGE, not in any given conversation as the player apparently selects each line the Player Character says in that conversation. There's still a few things we don't know about the conversation system too, but we do know that they aren't skimping on the Player Character's dialog with some 13,000 lines each gender.

As for modders, this could actually be a potential boon assuming the game engine allows for it. Modders now have a built in system for the voice acting of the player character in place, meaning that if there was a modder dedicated enough they could record and replace ALL the dialog that is natively there with their own voice acting without having to build in a system for that themselves. I have no doubt the first big thing modders will try to do is mute the voice and replace the dialog interface with classic fallout anyway if Bethesda didn't decide to already, thus having voice acting is potentially the best of both worlds for those who want a voiced protagonist and those that don't.

The main problem with Bethesda games has always been the lack of effectively delivered story, and voicing the protagonist can help with that. The reason for this is Bethesda does in fact write very good stories and characters most of the time, but due to their philosophy that the player must be allowed to do whatever they want they by necessity must write these stories so that if the player decides to take part in the story the Player Character must not be able to do much nor the rest of the world reacting much to what the Player Character is doing. Giving the Player Character a voice gives that character agency in the world, they can affect it and show it affecting them much better that way. With a Player Character with a decently described backstory and an demonstrable if flexible personality Bethesda now HAS to try and make the world, it's quests, and it's main character better written as they cannot nor need to rely mostly on the imagination of the player to compensate for the fact that the player character must allow for the player to do most anything they want anymore.
 

Tsun Tzu

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I'm perfectly fine with voiced. Adds more life to the game and gives my character a much more realized form...what with being able to communicate with others who can also speak and all.

With that said:
Clive Howlitzer said:
The terrible writing of Bethesda dooms it either way, so it is kind of a moot point no matter which system they use.


Well.

Yeah, there's that I guess.

Putting New Vegas up against Fallout 3 is kind of unfair to the latter. Bethesda's story-telling chops are...passable, but certainly not great.

Their ability to cultivate an atmospheric experience is quite good though.
 

WonkyWarmaiden

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Jun 15, 2010
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I say give it a chance before jumping up to yell about it. We've barely heard or seen any of the available dialogue options yet, just what we got at E3.

I get the feeling that Bethesda is going for a more personal and character driven story this time, what with your character losing their family somehow and skipping forward 200 years into the future. If that is the case then I can definitely see why they would think that a voiced protagonist would be a better choice to better convey what the character is feeling.

To me it's much more immersive hearing a competent voice actor reacting to the loss of their entire world than reading it in my own inner voice.
 

DerangedHobo

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Who thought having some drooling mush-mouthed ingrate, spew out his lines with a blank facial expression while you pick from 4 dumb, vague as fuck options? Really? Can people not fucking read anymore? Who thought that instead of saying "You have to stop this, MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WILL DIE" wasn't as good as the "STOP" dialogue option?
 

nomotog_v1legacy

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I don't know if being voiced will work in fallout 4 or not. They have a lot of money so they might be able to pull off the number of lines needed. (Adding a voice to the player would easily double the number of lines they need to record and i could see it going as high as 4x times.) I don't want the voiced protag to become standard though. It's really expensive an some times the voice just isn't worth the cost. I want to see some advancement to make dialog easier to implement in games rather then making it more costly.
 

Fdzzaigl

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Your first point is a really bad one imo. You don't have a choice in what to reply whether protagonist voice over is applied or not, except for the choices that the devs put in. This is so even in Fallout 1 & 2, which I'm currently replaying.

Your second point is quite valid: it will make things a lot harder on modders.

That said, this is true for any voice acting. Modders for Skyrim still made great story mods without voice actors for NPC's. It's true that it might cause a disconnect, but at the same time you do have an advantage of connecting more with the characters in the main storyline.

For me a game has never been about inserting myself into the protagonist, unless it's an MMO of some sort. It's more about guiding a character that's different from myself into various interesting directions.
 

Major_Tom

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Fuck the main character, no one should have a voice!
What's the point of having voice acting at all when 200 NPCs share 4 voice actors? New Shadowrun was 10 times more immersive than all Bethesda games combined. I never really cared for original Fallout's talking heads either. "Whatcha be needing?" - SHUT THE FUCK UP, SULIK!
 

shadoe14

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Feb 27, 2012
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While I don't really mind the voiced protagonist, I still have MAJOR gripes about the dialogue system.

While I prefer a silent protagonist in these type of games (I am one of those people who like to think of the player character as myself and not having someone else's voice adds to that experience.) I don't mind it all that much. I don't think Bethesda would suddenly decide to have a voiced protagonist unless they had a good reason to, and considering how long their VAs have been working on this project, I think that it should turn out alright. Even for those of us who get rather involved in the role playing aspect of it.


Now what I REALLY don't like is the Mass Effect style dialogue options. As someone who likes to role play in Bethesda games, I want to know what exactly my character is going to say. When I watched the gameplay and saw the dialog options, the vagueness of the options made me wonder what exactly it was meaning and what kind of tone it was going to be spoken in. Not to mention, how a couple of the options seemed to make absolutely no sense based off their short description. Another thing is that I'm a little concerned that mapping the options to the face buttons might limit the number of dialog options.

If they had/have the option to read exactly what you are going to say before you actually say it. Then I wouldn't mind the new dialogue system at all.
 

GladiatorUA

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Jun 1, 2013
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The voice will be modded out.

As long as it's not like in mass effect with shortened responses, it should be fine.

As long the world is not shallow and dull like in Skyrim, it should be fine.

If we get a mix between Skyrim's dull world and Mass Effect chat, this will be a shitty game praised to high heavens.