Poll: Fantasy Stereotypes I try to avoid

[plugav]

Mythical beasts are okay. They're mythical. Bow-shooting elves, axe-wielding dwarves and especially orcs are Tolkien's thing and they're the worst.

Also, feudalism. Or rather the "not-mediaeval-Europe" setting.

And of course the obnoxious teen protagonist who grows up to be The Chosen One. Luckily, not many of those in short stories.

 

[TheIronRuler]

If you want to avoid cliches, spend some time thinking about what story you want to tell. If you could sum up a story in a single theme (paranoia/adventure/corruption/anti-industrialism etc.), then you have a well focused story. If you can't, then your story lacks focus. Some epic stories have multiple themes (Lord of the Rings has all of those), but you should start small and work up to that sort of thing. When coming up with a theme, pick one that interests you in particular, which hasn't already been commonly touched upon, and is of personal relevance.

Once you have a single theme you want to write about, create the story and the setting around it. Don't just default to feudal-Europe, edo-period Japan or a steam-punk Victorian setting. Come up with a setting which best accommodates the theme of the story. If it is a story about self reliance, a harsh jungle or desert setting would be a good idea. If it is a story about deceit, an urban or court setting is sensible. Once you have a location, do something to it to make it unfamiliar of original. This isn't just for aesthetic purposes, it is for best making an intriguing world that reflects the message of the story.

When coming up with characters, grant them at least one characteristic which makes them unique. IT can be literally anything. Just so long as you don't treat a character as an object who provides exposition, or who the hero just has to kill at some point. Perhaps it is an evil enemy general, who has a soft spot for making models of stuff. Perhaps it is a doctor with suicidal tendencies. Practically anything can make them more human. It doesn't have to be kooky, but it can be. These things help avoid creating obvious strawmen or flat 2-d characters. Which aren't necessarily a bad thing, but can be boring if they're sort are already too familiar with the reader. We have already seen plenty of greedy industrialists/barons or sanctimonious, corrupt clerics. If you want to do something interesting, turn it around and make the court jester greedy or the herbologist as sanctimonious.

EDIT: Dry; nothing on it

I'm currently trying to set most of it in one universe to try and flesh out the actual surroundings because I know for a fact that I can't convey the entire feel of the land unless I do that in more than one short story.

Hmm.. This thread seems like it could give me inspiration.. I think I'll hang around here..

Oh, the East-evilness and dragons and greedy dwarves with axes and longbow elves.
Not that they're bad stereotypes, but some fantasies just do them really really bad.
After my ex, she tainted me into liking more sword & sandahl and more gritty realism fantasy than high fantasy.
Not that I complain ^_^

I dislike high fantasy becasue it's high.
maybe its becasue of my hatred for high things, but I don't like it so much.
A different world in a different setting, for example London with magic replacing steam engines in the 18th century would be much better than Dungeons&Wizards.
I would still write about hot and young Witches. Nothing can top that.

High Fantasy can be good. I like Tolkien, I think it's an excellent piece of work. A very interesting world with a lot of rich backstory for those who bother reading it. The old lore of Warcraft was also a very excellent one, with a lot of dark tones to it. I'm.. not entirely sure of D&D's story though as there are plenty of them but I suppose that D&D 3.0+ is where everything started going wrong.

Though if there is one D&D-verse that I do know about it's Dragonlance - And I love that one.
Oh, Raistlin Majere <3

What you describe make me instantly think about Final Fantasy VI.

That was utterly random. Are you saying that what I described is the universe of a Final Fantasy game?
I think I'm going mad.
I have the power of telepathy!
You can have many, MANY different stories.
I wrote a prose once called "Toying with me" about someone feeling very neglected that his love is toying with his emotions, being with him all the time but then abandoning him, and then coming back for him. Of course the actual protagonist is a yo-yo, but that's the twist.

 

[TheIronRuler]

Hmm.. This thread seems like it could give me inspiration.. I think I'll hang around here..

Oh, the East-evilness and dragons and greedy dwarves with axes and longbow elves.
Not that they're bad stereotypes, but some fantasies just do them really really bad.
After my ex, she tainted me into liking more sword & sandahl and more gritty realism fantasy than high fantasy.
Not that I complain ^_^

I dislike high fantasy becasue it's high.
maybe its becasue of my hatred for high things, but I don't like it so much.
A different world in a different setting, for example London with magic replacing steam engines in the 18th century would be much better than Dungeons&Wizards.
I would still write about hot and young Witches. Nothing can top that.

High Fantasy can be good. I like Tolkien, I think it's an excellent piece of work. A very interesting world with a lot of rich backstory for those who bother reading it. The old lore of Warcraft was also a very excellent one, with a lot of dark tones to it. I'm.. not entirely sure of D&D's story though as there are plenty of them but I suppose that D&D 3.0+ is where everything started going wrong.

Though if there is one D&D-verse that I do know about it's Dragonlance - And I love that one.
Oh, Raistlin Majere <3

What you describe make me instantly think about Final Fantasy VI.

That was utterly random. Are you saying that what I described is the universe of a Final Fantasy game?
I think I'm going mad.
I have the power of telephathy!
You can have many, MANY different stories.
I wrote a prose once called "Toying with me" about someone feeling very neglected that his love is toying with his emotions, being with him all the time but then abandoning him, and then coming back for him. Of course the actual protagonist is a yo-yo, but that's the twist.

No, I said it reminded me about it~
You've never played FF6?

Nope, I never touched a Final Fantasy title.

 

[TheIronRuler]

Nope, I never touched a Final Fantasy title.

Not to sound offensive or go off topic too much but why?
Not your type of game or?

This is going off topic.
But to quench your thirst for knowledge, I'd say that I don't even know the genre of "Final Fantasy" games. But I do know that the title is "Final Fantasy" because it was supposed to be the last game to ever be developed by the developer due to financial difficulties.

 

[The Gnome King]

I usually fail miserably at avoiding fantasy stereotypes when I write short stories (i.e. (in my opinion) the best form for writing fiction ). It has become excrutiating to try and avoid these stereotypes because I don't want to write recycled stories (though technically you'll never read a truely original story. NEVER.).
I'll usually have a character make a journey through uncharted territories, trying to find himself/herself closure. In the meanwhile I set all of these stories in the same universe for the sake of avoiding history books about various realms, and simply make you gather information from different dialouges in different stories. Tolkien wrote books about the history of various cities and races that inhabit his fantasy realm, I dare not dwell in that matter.
About my poll - I have found these the most unoriginal and stereotypical ""settings"" of a fantasy universe.
Share you opinions and thoughts with me -
What did you choose?
Why did you choose it?
If you did choose 'all of the above' why did you do that?
Do you have any other stereotypes you have in mind?
Do you think this thread is original or recycled?
And lastly, Do you spread Jam, Butter or Chocolate on your bread or toast? (six options are available therefore I couldn't fit that in my poll).

Ever heard of the game Talislanta? It's available free now:

http://talislanta.com/?page_id=5

Basically it was a fantasy roleplaying game ala Dungeons and Dragons that used to be advertised with the slogan, "No Elves..." - it had a VERY different "vibe" going on. No elves, no orcs, odd cultures seemingly pulled from the author's imagination at his whimsy...

 

[TheIronRuler]

I usually fail miserably at avoiding fantasy stereotypes when I write short stories (i.e. (in my opinion) the best form for writing fiction ). It has become excrutiating to try and avoid these stereotypes because I don't want to write recycled stories (though technically you'll never read a truely original story. NEVER.).
I'll usually have a character make a journey through uncharted territories, trying to find himself/herself closure. In the meanwhile I set all of these stories in the same universe for the sake of avoiding history books about various realms, and simply make you gather information from different dialouges in different stories. Tolkien wrote books about the history of various cities and races that inhabit his fantasy realm, I dare not dwell in that matter.
About my poll - I have found these the most unoriginal and stereotypical ""settings"" of a fantasy universe.
Share you opinions and thoughts with me -
What did you choose?
Why did you choose it?
If you did choose 'all of the above' why did you do that?
Do you have any other stereotypes you have in mind?
Do you think this thread is original or recycled?
And lastly, Do you spread Jam, Butter or Chocolate on your bread or toast? (six options are available therefore I couldn't fit that in my poll).

Ever heard of the game Talislanta? It's available free now:

http://talislanta.com/?page_id=5

Basically it was a fantasy roleplaying game ala Dungeons and Dragons that used to be advertised with the slogan, "No Elves..." - it had a VERY different "vibe" going on. No elves, no orcs, odd cultures seemingly pulled from the author's imagination at his whimsy...

See this 'Rise of Nations: Rise of Legends". THAT is FABTASY with actually interesting and UNIQUE cultures and history!
http://pc.ign.com/objects/746/746556.html

 

[The Gnome King]

I usually fail miserably at avoiding fantasy stereotypes when I write short stories (i.e. (in my opinion) the best form for writing fiction ). It has become excrutiating to try and avoid these stereotypes because I don't want to write recycled stories (though technically you'll never read a truely original story. NEVER.).
I'll usually have a character make a journey through uncharted territories, trying to find himself/herself closure. In the meanwhile I set all of these stories in the same universe for the sake of avoiding history books about various realms, and simply make you gather information from different dialouges in different stories. Tolkien wrote books about the history of various cities and races that inhabit his fantasy realm, I dare not dwell in that matter.
About my poll - I have found these the most unoriginal and stereotypical ""settings"" of a fantasy universe.
Share you opinions and thoughts with me -
What did you choose?
Why did you choose it?
If you did choose 'all of the above' why did you do that?
Do you have any other stereotypes you have in mind?
Do you think this thread is original or recycled?
And lastly, Do you spread Jam, Butter or Chocolate on your bread or toast? (six options are available therefore I couldn't fit that in my poll).

Ever heard of the game Talislanta? It's available free now:

http://talislanta.com/?page_id=5

Basically it was a fantasy roleplaying game ala Dungeons and Dragons that used to be advertised with the slogan, "No Elves..." - it had a VERY different "vibe" going on. No elves, no orcs, odd cultures seemingly pulled from the author's imagination at his whimsy...

See this 'Rise of Nations: Rise of Legends". THAT is FABTASY with actually interesting and UNIQUE cultures and history!
http://pc.ign.com/objects/746/746556.html

That does seem cool.

Problem with being too... different... in your fantasy is that people *expect* their elves and orcs. Bethesda was criticized for making TES 3 too "weird" (but Oblivion was too 'normal' whatever that meant...)

Even with Dungeons & Dragons Online they took a very unique setting - Eberron - with creatures ranging from Warforged (sentient golem-like creatures) to Kalashtar (psionic-spiritual scions of the realm of madness/dreams) ... and then they made the game revolve around elves, humans, etc., - standard fantasy fodder.

And people STILL cried that they wished they had used The Forgotten Realms instead; about as "standard" a fantasy world as you could possibly create. I like it; I use it... but let's not call Ed Greenwood's creation "original" by any STRETCH of the imagination.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

Nothing beats dragons. Seriously, I can't count how many times heroes kill evil dragons in any story, from literature to movies.

And no I'm not sympathizing with Eragon because the book bored me to death and the movie just rehashed The Lord of the Rings.

 

[Merkavar]

What did you choose?
Why did you choose it?
And lastly, Do you spread Jam, Butter or Chocolate on your bread or toast? (six options are available therefore I couldn't fit that in my poll).

I choose orc elves and humans because of toliken, witcher, norse mythology, warhammer, warhammer 40k, elderscrolls etc etc etc. so many games and books have the same basic outline of elves being old and wise and long living, dwarfs being short and good with metal and stone and humans being the younger race and being more of a jack of all trades.

i dont think there is anything wrong with it being overused cause its a good sterotype.

jam is for scones, i barely touch butter an nutella is number 1

 

[Wutaiflea]

I usually fail miserably at avoiding fantasy stereotypes when I write short stories (i.e. (in my opinion) the best form for writing fiction ). It has become excrutiating to try and avoid these stereotypes because I don't want to write recycled stories (though technically you'll never read a truely original story. NEVER.).
I'll usually have a character make a journey through uncharted territories, trying to find himself/herself closure. In the meanwhile I set all of these stories in the same universe for the sake of avoiding history books about various realms, and simply make you gather information from different dialouges in different stories. Tolkien wrote books about the history of various cities and races that inhabit his fantasy realm, I dare not dwell in that matter.
About my poll - I have found these the most unoriginal and stereotypical ""settings"" of a fantasy universe.
Share you opinions and thoughts with me -
What did you choose?
Why did you choose it?
If you did choose 'all of the above' why did you do that?
Do you have any other stereotypes you have in mind?
Do you think this thread is original or recycled?
And lastly, Do you spread Jam, Butter or Chocolate on your bread or toast? (six options are available therefore I couldn't fit that in my poll).

You know, I think the worst stereotype in fantasy (and coincidentally the one that always used to haunt my own writing attempts) is the concept of prophecy- the hero being the only one who can save the world, destined from birth to be greater than everyone else.
Interestingly, I find when people try aggressively hard to avoid the cliche, its actually as bad, if not worse.

My other favourite stereotype is the party. You know, the collecting of random companions across the world until you've covered all your made-up ethnicities and personality types XD

Personally, I like jam on my toast. Everyone in my family (except me) makes jam. I also like mascarpone cheese on toast, which my husband thinks is both disgusting and weird.

 

[EvilPicnic]

Well, fantasy is really odd, because for a genre so potentially *free* it does seem to fall into cliche-ville over and over again.

And tbh I blame Tolkein; because he basically kickstarted modern fantasy with such panache and skill that he still gets unconsciously copied and plagiarised to hell. Chunky dwarfs (spelt dwarves..), noble elves, orcs in toto...

For me any use of 'Orc' is a fail. It's like writing a sci-fi saga and including Klingons.

Now I don't think that use of these archetypes is necessarily always a BAD thing, but they're often used in a lazy by-the-book way (here's looking at you David Eddings) with no concept of the subtext.

I think the only way to handle such tropes is to go further back to older sources. For example to use archetypical 'magic rings' successfully there needs to be some acknowledgement by the author of sub-text going back through LOTR, Das Rheingold, the Nibelunglied and all the way back to Old Norse sagas.

Ultimately, I think one of the only ways to break the mold and create truly original fantasy is to either draw from unusual mythological traditions, or to subvert the tropes. But to do that successfully is hard. JRR was so brilliant at this obviously because he was an academic who dug all that old shit. And, not to overly diss any aspiring writers posting here, but often fantasy authors, especially amateur ones don't have time to be original or look below the surface of what they reference.

 

[TheIronRuler]

You know, I think the worst stereotype in fantasy (and coincidentally the one that always used to haunt my own writing attempts) is the concept of prophecy- the hero being the only one who can save the world, destined from birth to be greater than everyone else.
Interestingly, I find when people try aggressively hard to avoid the cliche, its actually as bad, if not worse.

My other favourite stereotype is the party. You know, the collecting of random companions across the world until you've covered all your made-up ethnicities and personality types XD

Personally, I like jam on my toast. Everyone in my family (except me) makes jam. I also like mascarpone cheese on toast, which my husband thinks is both disgusting and weird.

The party is nice, but better is to have a character go with your prtagonist till he is not needed anymore. I'm not talking about him sacrificing himself so that you could defeat the evil dragon magician dick lich emporer duke king secret society behemoth.
At some point he reaches closure with your help, and he turns to his own path, but in the process he'd enriched your experience of the story .

 

[NewClassic_v1legacy]

What did you choose?
Why did you choose it?
If you did choose 'all of the above' why did you do that?
Do you have any other stereotypes you have in mind?
Do you think this thread is original or recycled?
And lastly, Do you spread Jam, Butter or Chocolate on your bread or toast?

My choice was "Orcs, Elves, and greedy Humans," even though I don't fully agree with all of the established points. Partly because the fantasy stereotype has always dwelled in the hero section. Between Eragon, Dungeons and Dragons, Lord of the Rings, and a great many manuscripts from aspiring writers almost always dwells in the same well of conceptual material. It was that, or dragons, honestly. The most common things I see, almost in order, are: "Elves, legendary hero group, legendary sword/ring/handgun/whatever, dragons, scary mountain pass, wizards."

As far as other stereotypes, it's hard to point things out because it's loose concepts that are recycled. Elves are almost always characterized by being tall, pale, beautiful beyond humanity, often blond, and have significantly higher access to magical power than humans (if humans have it at all). Orcs and/or goblins: Either huge or squat, layered muscle, stupid, almost always army-for-hire yet only works for the same villain. Usually a mythic or magical sword in the mix somewhere, either acquired and is the "one true weakness" for villain-du-jour, or the quest is to recover the sword to vanquish the blight. Things like that.

Probably recycled, given how long the Escapist's been around. Though I haven't seen it yet.

Butter, or grape jelly. Depends on my mood.

 

[TheIronRuler]

Well, fantasy is really odd, because for a genre so potentially *free* it does seem to fall into cliche-ville over and over again.

And tbh I blame Tolkein; because he basically kickstarted modern fantasy with such panache and skill that he still gets unconsciously copied and plagiarised to hell. Chunky dwarfs (spelt dwarves..), noble elves, orcs in toto...

For me any use of 'Orc' is a fail. It's like writing a sci-fi saga and including Klingons.

Now I don't think that use of these archetypes is necessarily always a BAD thing, but they're often used in a lazy by-the-book way (here's looking at you David Eddings) with no concept of the subtext.

I think the only way to handle such tropes is to go further back to older sources. For example to use archetypical 'magic rings' successfully there needs to be some acknowledgement by the author of sub-text going back through LOTR, Das Rheingold, the Nibelunglied and all the way back to Old Norse sagas.

Ultimately, I think one of the only ways to break the mold and create truly original fantasy is to either draw from unusual mythological traditions, or to subvert the tropes. But to do that successfully is hard. JRR was so brilliant at this obviously because he was an academic who dug all that old shit. And, not to overly diss any aspiring writers posting here, but often fantasy authors, especially amateur ones don't have time to be original or look below the surface.

You've insulted me.. now I must avenge the honor of my family name !
Nope, I still don't care.
Good point, he used the norse myth to even name the realm he wrote about "middle earth" was from norse mythology, becasue it was between heaven (with thor) and hell, therefore it was the MIDDLE earth . But where can you find good mythology these days?
Even the golem is played out, and that's Jews making up a story so that they won't get lynched.
So you fuck up the system, and try to make the best of it. Like I said, have a city of deform little people calling themselves dwarves, THAT is original.

 

[Venereus]

Tropes and recurring themes exist for a reason. People are more familiar with the myths being used, so it's easier to communicate the story. Like the OP said, you never write a new story, so the trick is in creating a unique story-telling style instead, like using different gameplay mechanics for the same game. I won't be the same game because it's played differently, but it has the same base storyline, and that's the point.

Now, according to Richard Rorty, you can create new stories (but mainly new ways to conceive the "real" world) by creating new metaphors (giving existing words another meaning), and therefore changing the very language being used to tell the story, and with it the world in wich the story is being told (if you really want to understand it you'd have to read him).

And it's interesting to note that, as seen in his other works, Tolkien made up entire languages, and yet told the same old myths. However, I'd say "The Silmarillion" is very closed to achieving what Rorty talks about, as it tried to describe a world that couldn't be grasped with the language at hand, and just out of need created the metaphors to do it. I'd say this is why that book is pretty dense and hard to understand.

Another close example would've been if Mel Gibson had gotten away with a no-subtitles "The Passion of the Christ", by using a dead language (new meaning to old words) to tell a known story.

 

[ThisIsSnake]

Discworld is good at working with these stereotypes.

The main Wizard in the series is useless at magic (he has 1 spell that scares all other spells out of his head) and a coward to boot.
The greatest hero on the Discworld is a toothless, semi-senile psychopath who misses the good old days of cliche heroes and villains.
The difference between Gods and Demons is the same as that between terrorists and freedom fighters.
Magic has very little use, Wizards never really notice non-wizards and attacking other wizards with magic is useless due to the amount of magical protection they have; instead they kill each other with conventional weapons.

The reasons writers use the cliched fantasy archetypes is because it saves a lot of time establishing what a creature is to the reader and there's always a chance when establishing a new race that this happens:

The Pilexes were a slight creature, around 5ft tall with hair down to their knees. Normally they hide amongst the foliage and rarely interact with humans, but lately there have been troubling accounts of skirmishes between the two. Human patrols claim to have encountered roaming bands of Pilexi warriors, armoured in leathers and fine, tough spider silks and wielding an array of elegent swords and bows. There are even claims of Pilexi commanding the forest itself in these attacks.

The reader just goes, oh, so they're elves then.

 

[Silverrock]

There's another big cliche that's missing: The THING!

You know, the ring/sword/gem/potion/flower/armor/spell/staff/forge/...THING. It's the ONLY item that will let our hero/party/whiny teen destroy the ultimate evil wizard/dragon/spell/king/ancient god and let his family/town/country/world live happily ever after...

Until the sequel.