Poll: Father in rural Germany finds his young son likes to wear dresses; does the same to show solidarity.

[prophecy2514]

No idea. Both my parents are tolerant and accepting of all people, and I've always had the opinion that all people should be treated as equals...
I know when I tell people I don't like drag/cross-dressers/extreeeeemely effeminate men and 'stallone' looking women...They assume I'm homophobic. I'm not. I like gays. I have quite a few gay friends, both guys and gals'. Like I said, people can love and be whoever they want.

But I cringed when I saw the Rocky-Horror Show and hated watching it; for example...I don't know why it be, but it be.

Could simply be that gender roles are just simply deeply ingrained in you. And when we feel like people are violating such things, it tends to make us really uncomfortable.

Or it could be the fact that you plain just dont like seeing men or women or trans gender men or women in fishnets and revealing apparel because its unattractive (to you), not gender roles.


OT: gotta say good on him, wish there were more people out there like him.

 

[Greni]

If, later in life, this kid repeatedly gets the shit kicked out of him for wearing dresses, we'll know who to blame.

I would blame the bigots with a world view so narrow that they have to resort to physical violence any time something conflicts with their pathetically outdated and uneducated opinions.

You, dear sir or madam, have just won the rights to my entire internets for that reply.

Edit: Suppose I have to say something about the OT if you hadn't figured already.
Of all the things that are going on in the world, triumphs and failures of man, Mars exploration and deforestation; lesser minds dwell on pop culture, celebrities, and a boy wearing a dress.

 

[bandman232]

Hm. Well, If I was the kid's father, i would wait until he's a little older to explain some things to him. I couldn't encourage him wearing dresses, but I would discourage it either. I'd simply just wait till he's older then have a talk with him and see how he feels. He would understand things a bit better. 5 is a bit young to enforce that behavior if he doesn't know what it means.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

lesser minds dwell on a boy wearing a dress.

It would be a mistake to let our intelligence make us cold. Achievements on a massive scale are great indeed. But to reach a point where we perceive the tiny victories, every last courageous act by each individual who composes our race, as unimportant or for "lesser minds" is the day we totally lose sight of what to strive for a better humanity in every regard. It might not be big. It might not even be that meaningful. But its something. The triumph of a kidney donor who saves a life is equally as important (probably mores so) to someone as the Mars rover is to us. The courage of this father to utterly spit in the face of those who would mock his son for doing what he wants by standing with him is commendable. And worthy of celebration. We cant let the large victories render the tiny ones unimportant. Intelligence doesn't ensure kindness. And the tiniest acts of kindness are what makes up the greater whole. I think its only right to dwell, for a single moment, on the lengths a father would go to make his son feel normal and wanted by society even if it goes against everything he was raised to think is proper.

 

[Greni]

lesser minds dwell on a boy wearing a dress.

It would be a mistake to let our intelligence make us cold. Achievements on a massive scale are great indeed. But to reach a point where we perceive the tiny victories, every last courageous act by each individual who composes our race, as unimportant or for "lesser minds" is the day we totally lose sight of what to strive for a better humanity in every regard. It might not be big. It might not even be that meaningful. But its something. The triumph of a kidney donor who saves a life is equally as important (probably mores so) to someone as the Mars rover is to us. The courage of this father to utterly spit in the face of those who would mock his son for doing what he wants by standing with him is commendable. And worthy of celebration. We cant let the large victories render the tiny ones unimportant. Intelligence doesn't ensure kindness. And the tiniest acts of kindness are what makes up the greater whole. I think its only right to dwell, for a single moment, on the lengths a father would go to make his son feel normal and wanted by society even if it goes against everything he was raised to think is proper.

I feel you misunderstand me friend. The father is indeed a hero of sorts and I am not making his actions seem small in any way, I honor him and his doings with all my heart.
My comment was aimed at those (thankfully) few who where rather outraged at this, like we are living in the fifties where real men wore a suit and a hat, twirled their mustaches while the women giggled and agreed with their husbands.

It also seems rather queer to me that this kind of thing is worth such heat and debate in this day and age, probably because where I come from a boy liking dresses is no big deal. If he'd turn out gay than he's gay, if he turns out a full blown cross-dresser then he'd probably like Eddie Izzard in the future.

Point is I find this overblown and not worth such a fuzz.

Also pope in pimpin' dress:

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

I feel you misunderstand me friend. The father is indeed a hero of sorts and I am not making his actions seem small in any way, I honor him and his doings with all my heart.
My comment was aimed at those (thankfully) few who where rather outraged at this, like we are living in the fifties where real men wore a suit and a hat, twirled their mustaches while the women giggled and agreed with their husbands.

It also seems rather queer to me that this kind of thing is worth such heat and debate in this day and age, probably because where I come from a boy liking dresses is no big deal. If he'd turn out gay than he's gay, if he turns out a full blown cross-dresser then he'd probably like Eddie Izzard in the future.

Point is I find this overblown and not worth such a fuzz.

Also pope in pimpin' dress:

Ah i did misunderstand you. Sorry for the impassioned speech! I agree with the idea about the negative attention and debate. Also the dress is totally bitchin. That isnt an opinion. Thats objective.

 

[TehCookie]

Girls wear pants, guys should be able to wear dresses. Then again I don't get the whole gender thing, since that just seems to be based off of social constructs of what girls/guys should be. People should just be themselves.

 

[Lionsfan]

This is wonderful for the record, nice smile to add to the day. Thank You.

As for the question my Wife and I are about total gender equality when it comes to our kids. Honestly, while we'd would accepted our child no matter what the preference we would like them to be bi like his/her parents. We both agree that there are some cross gender guys that are just beautiful and can pull it off perfectly.

pic snip

There are better pictures, but they are DEFINITELY not appropriate for the forums.

As long as my child isn't harming others or himself I don't give a damn what he does as long as it makes him happy. I do acknowledge that such... well for lack of a better word "lifestyles" can cause ridicule and misery to him. I will say I'll be there for him as much as I could.

---------

Pre added statements to avoid future arguments.

There isn't anything physically wrong with men wearing dresses. Both boys and girls used to wearing dresses for over 2 centuries. Also lets not forget than women were not allowed to wear pants until very recently.

I'm sorry but I kind of tuned everything out....that's a dude?

 

[NightmareWarden]

I'd clap for this guy if he could hear it. I honestly doubt I would have the backbone to handle the situation as he did, so more power to him. That man, is good people.

I'd come to a compromise, and make him wear wizard robes.

That'd be cool in it's own right.

 

[ElPatron]

I'd get my son a kilt, red beret and a .303 Lee Enfield.

No compromise.

The child still needs to understand difference in clothing for the genders.

Why? In the future we will all be wearing all the same overalls and have our jobs chosen at birth. In the Moon.

Might be the more selfish option, but I would not allow it (at least while hes a small child)

So you mean that when he can actually blend in a crowd and look like a girl you're not going to let him do it because of shame, but when he gets hairy legs and face he's free to stand out like a sore thumb?

Wat.

For example, this is going to be amazing unless the kid grows up this way and decides he wants to get a job. No employer will hire him simply because that's not how things work. It's horribly depressing, but it's kind of true.

>sue employer for discrimination
>get moneis
>repeat for infinite moneis

I'm pretty sure that as silly some countries get, there are places in the world where the employer feels pressured to hire a guy that wears dresses over people who are more qualified for fear of legal action.

 

[Hawk eye1466]

I bet the kids just doing that so he doesn't have to be potty trained.

 

[JeffBergGold]

Why do I hate femininity in men? I feel like they are killing nature the way it designed us to be.

You should probably reflect a little more and get some wider perspective on the issue, because that is a strange reason to dislike something. Modern diets, spending your time in front of a computer and technology are all, in many aspects, destroying the way nature designed us to be.

The only way nature has "designed" (which is a bad word to use, because there was no design) us to be is to survive and pass down our genetic material. That's the only reason we are here. There is no point forming opinions about whole groups of people because you feel that they go against nature. One could argue most things we do goes against nature.

I know it's not a good reason. I just know that male femininity illicits a strong response in me. When I see or am around an effeminate male It feels as if I am being personally attacked.

The only logical conclusion I can draw is that masculinity and being a male are both things that I highly value and a part of my identity and that males who aren't masculine make me feel that maleness and thus my identity is under attack. That is the best I can come up with. I'm still trying to figure out why I feel this way.

 

[AzraelArmond]

I'm not saying this is what is happening here because I do not know the culture of rural Germany and I'm sure it varies from point to point.

But to all the people saying this is awesome while believing that culture is hostile to such a thing and fully admitting the child is too young to understand what he is doing:

Using any child to further your political agenda is never forgiveable no matter how noble that political agenda may seem to you.

You never have the right to make your child suffer because you want the world to change.

If your child lacks understanding it is your duty to guide them down the path of least resistance until they understand.

Simply put your child should be more important than the world to you. To use your own child as a tool to further your own ends is dehumanizing your own child. I don't really care what the cause is.

 

[easternflame]

I had never considered this, nor am I a father, however, armchair opinion time!
I would endorse the dress wearing and copy this man by wearing one myself.
Armchair opinion over.

 

[JeffBergGold]

You hit the nail squarely when you said it makes me uncomfortable. Seeing that little kid in a dress makes me feel disgusted. Seeing the man in the dress makes me feel disgusted. I know it shouldn't! but it does. It makes me feel as if males are being squelched and marginalized. I know it sounds crazy but other than my circle of friends I almost encounter nothing but weak males! It scares me it makes me feel as if me and more normal male friends are abnormal since so many guys are feminine and weak.

You yourself clearly know you don't have a good reason for thinking that way. It's something ingrained and illogical. By the sound of it you would actually agree with that statement. So there's not really anything to discuss, but if you realize you're acting in an irrational way surely you'd want to change that?

"Scared" is an unusual word to use, and another reason you should think about reconsidering your viewpoint. It's the change that scares you, its too far from what you expect from the world around you, but your expectations aren't logical.

"Weak" is another word I would like to bring up, I assume you mean physically weak, if that's the case fair enough, although I don't know if that would be entirely true, and being physically strong is also not an important characteristic for men to have in developed nations in the 21st century. If you mean mentally/emotionally weak that's a whole other kettle of fish. Please clarify this.

Why would being physical strength ever be unimportant. A physically weak and poorly developed body is shameful and revolting. I mean weak in all forms, physically weak, emotionally weak, socially weak, psychologically weak, intellectually weak. Weakness is something that a male should always strive to overcome and remove.

Lacking strength in any arena is to be a failure as a man.

The scary thing is that there are large numbers of men who are proud of being physically weak, revel in psychological weakness, are proud of being socially weak, intellectual parrots etc. They are proud of being weak! This is terrible for so many reasons.

I walk down the street and see men with pathetic weak ugly bodies that can't defend themselves or their families if they were to be attacked. That disgusts me.

I see men proud to have a girlfriend who is less attractive than them and warrant an undeserving women care and intimacy. His desperation lowers the value of all men. I have had men deride me for having multiple relationships and not emotionally investing in a woman just because she happens to be a woman. These men don't understand that they are giving away their control. That disgusts me.

I see men who proudly espouse and subscribe to others ideals, without coming to conclusions on their own. They are walking parrots of their particular social circle. Intellectually weak they believe intellect is the accumulation of facts and one dimensional. That disgusts me.

Men are supposed to be socially capable, charming, charismatic, confident, dominating, individualist. So many men I encounter are weak, submissive, docile, insecure, herd followers, etc. This disgusts me!

I could go on forever, it boils down to this surge of effeminacy and all men who embrace/display it disgusting. Mainly because it makes being a man boil down to a certain genitalia rather than being something a person has to work at.

 

[eternal-chaplain]

I think OP did raise a very interesting question. Because while many posts concern what society sees in this child and even the parent, the question still stands: 'What is a parent's job, to begin with?' And in all honesty, I cannot fully say. I am not a parent myself, and it seems as though the nature of such a position is beyond the event horizon for me. Even looking back, I can't 'reverse engineer' my own parents' actions to say what they wanted with me, though something was surely there. But now I begin to ramble.

 

[Judgement101]

Awwww, that's really nice. A strong, supportive parent teaching his child individuality. Thats really sweet.

 

[AzraelArmond]

You hit the nail squarely when you said it makes me uncomfortable. Seeing that little kid in a dress makes me feel disgusted. Seeing the man in the dress makes me feel disgusted. I know it shouldn't! but it does. It makes me feel as if males are being squelched and marginalized. I know it sounds crazy but other than my circle of friends I almost encounter nothing but weak males! It scares me it makes me feel as if me and more normal male friends are abnormal since so many guys are feminine and weak.

You yourself clearly know you don't have a good reason for thinking that way. It's something ingrained and illogical. By the sound of it you would actually agree with that statement. So there's not really anything to discuss, but if you realize you're acting in an irrational way surely you'd want to change that?

"Scared" is an unusual word to use, and another reason you should think about reconsidering your viewpoint. It's the change that scares you, its too far from what you expect from the world around you, but your expectations aren't logical.

"Weak" is another word I would like to bring up, I assume you mean physically weak, if that's the case fair enough, although I don't know if that would be entirely true, and being physically strong is also not an important characteristic for men to have in developed nations in the 21st century. If you mean mentally/emotionally weak that's a whole other kettle of fish. Please clarify this.

Why would being physical strength ever be unimportant. A physically weak and poorly developed boy is shameful and revolting. I mean weak in all forms, physically weak, emotionally weak, socially weak, psychologically weak, intellectually weak. Weakness is something that a male should always strive to overcome and remove.

Lacking strength in an arena is to be a failure as a man.

The scary thing is that there are large numbers of men who are proud of being physically weak, revel in psychological weakness, are proud of being socially weak, intellectual parrots etc. They are proud of being weak! This is terrible for so many reasons.

I walk down the street and see men with pathetic weak ugly bodies that can't defend themselves or their families if they were to be attacked. That disgusts me.

I see men proud to have a girlfriend who is less attractive than them and warrant an undeserving women care and intimacy. His desperation lowers the value of all men. I have had men deride me for having multiple relationships and not emotionally investing in a woman just because she happens to be a woman. These men don't understand that they are giving away their control. That disgusts me.

I see men who proudly espouse and subscribe to others ideals, without coming to conclusions on their own. They are walking parrots of their particular social circle. Intellectually weak they believe intellect is the accumulation of facts and one dimensional. That disgusts me.

Men are supposed to be socially capable, charming, charismatic, confident, dominating, individualist. So many men I encounter are weak, submissive, docile, insecure, herd followers, etc. This disgusts me!

I could go on forever, it boils down to this surge of effeminacy and all men who embrace/display it disgusting. Mainly because it makes being a man boil down to a certain genitalia rather than being something a person has to work at.

Jeff I think what you are getting at is that in this time of changes many people lose their way and this saddens and upsets you. This can turn into disgust when you see people revelling in their weakness and accepting what they have become. If I read you right the reason seems to be primarily because you have worked hard to be who you are and you don't like seeing people applauded for rolling over because it devalues your accomplishments.

A man wearing a dress seems like a symbol of that for you.

I have struggled with this as well but I now feel that both all men and all women should be all those great qualities you mentioned.

But as men we must learn from women and do all the great things that they know how to do just as they are learning all the great things we know how to do. I accept and respect anyone who strives to be better (you) but it is for the individual to decide what is better for them and how much they can handle. Sometimes you hit a wall and say I just have to accept who I am right now even if it isn't who you want to end up as. There's no end to self-improvement but it has to happen in stages.

I know many small physically weak men who have excelled at what they chose for their life. I have known many physically strong men who have no direction, morality, or desire to improve.

For some wearing a dress is who they want to be and it was a great act of self-determination and will to declare themselves to the world. For others they fit nowhere and were too lazy to make themselves so they signed up with the reject norms who would accept them and then cried foul when you called them on it.

Perhaps if you reflect some more you may come to respect the former but not the latter?

 

[Jadak]

I definitely would not be putting on a dress myself, and while I doubt I'd try to explain anything to the kid, I'd just quietly remove his access to dresses (along with wondering how got them in the first place)

 

[NoNameMcgee]

snip

I love how you talk about men that are emotionally weak when this entire post is based on you putting emotion (disgust, revolt) before logic. Nice one.

Also you just displayed your sexism, because my question was a ruse to get you to say femininity is a weak trait. If femininity means intellectually and emotionally weak then you think women are intellectually and emotionally weak too. Again, nice one.

Strength means nothing anymore. I've been alive 22 years and never once had to defend myself. Because I live in a civilized nation that values words before fists, and I'm not a caveman. I'm not PROUD of being physically weak, I just don't care, partly because of its unimportance, partly because I like my slim figure and think it suits me as well as my style. Maybe in the future ill want to bulk up, but it will be for health reasons, or because I want to change my look, not because I wnt 2 b strnger an fihgt betta. It's funny how you can't seem to understand that people might have these personal preferences. As I said before, I also have no problem with getting women to like me, because I actually am charismatic and confident, so that further proves how physical strength is a preference these days. Does that hurt? That all that time you spend in the gym doesn't really matter? auw.

I would like to add that if you think all men should be socially capable, you probably shouldn't be on a forum full of hopeless shut-ins and nerds. They don't actually represent the majority of men, and they annoy and depress me sometimes, so I hate to think how they'll make you feel.

and finally, men do boil down to a certain genitalia. What makes me a man, is the fact that I was born with a Y chromosome. What makes me a good person, and what makes me who I am, are completely different qualities not related to my gender at all.

I'm done with you, because it seems hopeless getting you to change your tune.