Poll: Favourite Total War game.`

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Subscriptism

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I'm just wondering what everyone's favourite total war game is for its time and if you could post why, well, that'd be just peachy too.

Mine is Shogun II primarily because it has a great mix of time periods but other than that I really can't identify why. I do suspect however that Medieval II would be a contender if they hadn't done such a bad job of it.
 

BlazeRaider

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While I'm playing TATW right now, my heart goes out to the game that took my TW virginity (and it was very gentle): RTW. Looking forward to R2TW, CARTHAGE SHALL RISE AGAIN!
 

BlazeRaider

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wombat_of_war said:
BlazeRaider said:
While I'm playing TATW right now, my heart goes out to the game that took my TW virginity: RTW. Looking forwars to R2TW, CARTHAGE SHALL RISE AGAIN!
just in time for me to raze it to the ground in the name of rome !

ive got a soft spot for rome , but i love fall of the samurai and empire
I always liked the way Carthage operated in terms of military, mercenary armies from all corners of the mediterranean, Balearic slingers, Numidian cavalry, light infantry from Iberia and heavy infantry from Gaul, Libyan levies, it all just seems so awesome how they make an army from the best the world has to offer.
 

gigastrike

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Rome will always be the best, and it will always be for the same reason: faction diversity (looking at you, Shogun II).
BlazeRaider said:
While I'm playing TATW right now, my heart goes out to the game that took my TW virginity (and it was very gentle): RTW. Looking forward to R2TW, CARTHAGE SHALL RISE AGAIN!
Carthage forever!
 

Fat Hippo

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Subscriptism said:
I'm just wondering what everyone's favourite total war game is for its time and if you could post why, well, that'd be just peachy too.

Mine is Shogun II primarily because it has a great mix of time periods but other than that I really can't identify why. I do suspect however that Medieval II would be a contender if they hadn't done such a bad job of it.
How did they do a bad job of Medieval II? I goddamn love that game, and I spent by far the most hours on it. The expansion campaigns weren't all that strong, but the grand campaign is superb.
 

adam352

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Napoleon for the Era (especially the naval battles) but I can't find the drive to learn a campaign system not based on Rome.

Shogun for the Avatar Conquest.

Rome for the hours and hours I've spent campaigning across the globe!
 

BloatedGuppy

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Fat_Hippo said:
How did they do a bad job of Medieval II? I goddamn love that game, and I spent by far the most hours on it. The expansion campaigns weren't all that strong, but the grand campaign is superb.
Medieval 2 launched with a lot of terrible, terrible AI issues. Straight out of the box it was flat out broken.

Years later, supported by mods and patches, I feel it's by far the best of the Total War games. It has much more variety than Rome, and has a depth and sprawl that dwarf the later, more streamlined products.
 

spartandude

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Ive got to say Medieval 2, its definately got its flaws(my god does it have its flaws) such as the pope yelling at me if i do anything. but imo its got some of the best balancing
 

Iwata

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I'd say Rome. Medieval II was the last TW game I had any fun with. Empire left a bad taste in my mouth, and the series hasn't been the same since... yet I still buy the games. Go figure.
 

Subscriptism

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Fat_Hippo said:
Subscriptism said:
I'm just wondering what everyone's favourite total war game is for its time and if you could post why, well, that'd be just peachy too.

Mine is Shogun II primarily because it has a great mix of time periods but other than that I really can't identify why. I do suspect however that Medieval II would be a contender if they hadn't done such a bad job of it.
How did they do a bad job of Medieval II? I goddamn love that game, and I spent by far the most hours on it. The expansion campaigns weren't all that strong, but the grand campaign is superb.
Small list of problems I have with it:
Two distinct types of town are a ball ache (personal quibble rather than a technical one)
It is impossible to storm walls, almost any unit can defend the walls against even the strongest invader (by ladder at least)
The diplomacy is broken to the degree that AI don't accept any offer more complicated than trade unless it massively favours them
It takes forever for units to kill each other. Say in shogun 2 setting two units on each other probably finishes in about 30-40 seconds, in medieval it took two minutes at least which gave the battles a torturously slow pace.
You can't steam roll your enemies
Archers can't aim for shit
Cavalry were almost useless
Artillery couldn't aim for shit
The fucking pope wouldn't stop crying.

That's just off the top of my head and I haven't played it in 6 months.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Subscriptism said:
Small list of problems I have with it: It is impossible to storm walls, almost any unit can defend the walls against even the strongest invader (by ladder at least)
Very untrue. While ladders are terrible for storming walls due to how they trickle guys onto the battlements, strong/armored units will fare incredibly well against spears or militia of any flavor. Try holding your walls with spears against dismounted knights. See how that works out for you. Realistically though, "A man on a wall is worth 10 below it". It's supposed to be hard, and you're supposed to want/need a breach.

Subscriptism said:
The diplomacy is broken to the degree that AI don't accept any offer more complicated than trade unless it massively favours them
I find mods address this reasonably well, but you can play a "Chivalry" game and have a very good diplomatic experience without them. You need to keep your reputation high, which means forming as many alliances as possible early on and keeping them, not expanding aggressively, and not behaving like a capital douche nugget (don't run around murdering prisoners, etc). A high reputation makes diplomacy a cinch. The trick with Total War is it's very easy to end up with a TERRIBLE reputation, especially on higher difficulties where the enemy is more disposed to declare war at the drop of a hat, and every war you're in makes your reputation worse whether you started it or not.

Subscriptism said:
It takes forever for units to kill each other. Say in shogun 2 setting two units on each other probably finishes in about 30-40 seconds, in medieval it took two minutes at least which gave the battles a torturously slow pace.
I actually like this, it's reflective of the actual slog/grind of a medieval battle. Shogun 2 feels like Starcraft. It's paced WAY too fast.

Subscriptism said:
You can't steam roll your enemies
You most certainly can.

Subscriptism said:
Archers can't aim for shit
This is true of early archers, less so later ones. Peasant archers are arguably the singularly most useless unit in the game.

Subscriptism said:
Cavalry were almost useless
Completely false. Used correctly, cavalry were wildly overpowered to the point of being game breaking. Medieval doesn't use a hard rock/paper/scissors formula like Shogun 2 does (which is one of many reasons I found that game shallow and bland), so you can't just roll up with cavalry and knock enemies over like bowling pins. You need to make sure they're lined up properly in a wedge or line (not straggling), and you need to make sure they have sufficient distance to get momentum. And then a cavalry charge is inhumanly devastating. Pretty much only entrenched pikes can stop them, and even then only with ugly losses. By using "hammer and anvil" techniques and flanking/hitting engaged infantry from behind with staggered cavalry charges you can rout entire armies in a matter of seconds.

Subscriptism said:
Artillery couldn't aim for shit
It's devastating, so if it was more accurate it would be ridiculous. Ballistas are quite accurate vs troops, mind you. It's catapults that aren't, but they're meant for walls, not anti-personnel.

Subscriptism said:
The fucking pope wouldn't stop crying.
Restricted to Catholic factions, but true. It's an interesting check/balance that adds a layer of strategy to the game, but it can be very annoying. If you're in North-Western Europe and your enemies are all Catholics you might as well call the game Total Pope.
 

Fat Hippo

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BloatedGuppy said:
Subscriptism said:
Artillery couldn't aim for shit
It's devastating, so if it was more accurate it would be ridiculous. Ballistas are quite accurate vs troops, mind you. It's catapults that aren't, but they're meant for walls, not anti-personnel.

Subscriptism said:
The fucking pope wouldn't stop crying.
Restricted to Catholic factions, but true. It's an interesting check/balance that adds a layer of strategy to the game, but it can be very annoying. If you're in North-Western Europe and your enemies are all Catholics you might as well call the game Total Pope.
Artillery was hilariously random. My brother once faced an absurdly large Mongol horde (who hasn't?) and was spectacularly screwed. But he DID have a cannon, which promptly shot the opposing general on its first go. This demoralized his foes enough for him to eke out a victory, and for once the crusading Europeans didn't have everything taken from them by dirty horse-loving Mongols.

And in my opinion, the pope kept that game from becoming too easy. Behaving like a dick in Europe could have serious consequences, and if you weren't prepared to deal with the fallout of your actions, you deserved the pope-bashing that inevitably followed.
 

Xavier323

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Rome. Medieval 2 was good, but I remember the siege deployment and pathfinding being broken. Rome also had the best faction/unit variety and imo the best music. I like the religion dynamic that Medieval 2 added, but otherwise I can't say I enjoy the grand campaign in M2 as much as I did in Rome.
 

BloatedGuppy

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Fat_Hippo said:
Artillery was hilariously random. My brother once faced an absurdly large Mongol horde (who hasn't?) and was spectacularly screwed. But he DID have a cannon, which promptly shot the opposing general on its first go. This demoralized his foes enough for him to eke out a victory, and for once the crusading Europeans didn't have everything taken from them by dirty horse-loving Mongols.

And in my opinion, the pope kept that game from becoming too easy. Behaving like a dick in Europe could have serious consequences, and if you weren't prepared to deal with the fallout of your actions, you deserved the pope-bashing that inevitably followed.
That happened to me once, too, almost identical circumstances. A catapult overshot the target wildly, one shot the general, and the army routed. I wonder if that's coded in there as a kind of hyper-rare easter egg.

You can get away with some pretty Pope-shirking hijinks if you dominate the college of cardinals. Wait for an old Pope, go on a Pope-enraging rampage, Pope dies, new Pope is your puppet, all is forgiven. Really though, it's better to play it clean. No excommunications, controlled wars. You can still hit your territorial needs playing it safe, and you don't end up with a ruined reputation/wars on every front.
 

F'Angus

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Medieval TW 1. It may not be the most technical, but it has it's charm. I like the movement in it, between regions rather than a set distance like later TW.

Though I do love Rome too. :)
 

WouldYouKindly

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It used to be Rome before I found the right mods to fix Medieval 2. Stainless Steel mod, minus the odd crash or two, makes things a lot more interesting.

Subscriptism said:
You can't steam roll your enemies
Archers can't aim for shit
Cavalry were almost useless
Artillery couldn't aim for shit
The fucking pope wouldn't stop crying.
The mods I'm talking about utterly change that. Unless you're charging a prepared line of pikes, not just spears, then your cav will do reasonably well. If you charge a unit of unprepared pretty much any infantry, that entire unit will likely be dead in about 4 seconds.

My archers seem fairly effective against light troops and decent vs. cav.

Artillery is for use against walls and not much else, excluding the ballista, the hilariously inaccurate rockets, and the ribaults. That's just a pinch of balance.

Find acceptable targets and the pope won't be pissing you off so much. The AI tends to get itself excommunicated fairly reliably.