Poll: Game of Thrones : Read the Books, Should I watch the Show?

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm listening to this on my cell phone audible.com for my long round trip work commute and elliptical workouts. The reader takes on Tyrion's voice making him sound a bit silly rather than droll. The words are largely the same as you hear in the show but the different inflection makes his points sound a little different and more complex. He has stated in the book, foolish sounding has he does, that what he love is justice.

Hey, cool. Another audiobook listener. Sometimes I feel like the only one.

The issues with the ASOIAF audiobooks all stem from Roy Dotrice. He's a friend of Martin's so he's not going away any time soon, but he's uh...not one of the better readers I've come across. His voices seem to range from "Crazy spinster granny" to "Crazy spinster granny pirate". Tyrion in particular sounds like a demented leprechaun. After a while you get used to him, but they initially used a different reader for book 4, and the transition from that guy's pretty staid, normal read through and Dotrice's doddering lunacy was pretty jarring.

If you like audiobooks you should give Abercrombie's circle of the world series a listen. Steven Pacey does an absolutely fantastic job bringing those books to life.

And as for Tyrion...what Tyrion loves is Tyrion. He may not be QUITE as "neutral evil" as his siblings tend to be, but he's not far off.

EDIT - Watched the clip. Generally agree with the sentiments. The Theon/Ramsay bits were more or less faithful to the books, they were just showing off-screen activities (showing them poorly, mind you...apparently a lot of viewers just found it tedious, instead of terrifying). I *loathed* the Jeyne/Talissa swap, the show lost a lot of the nuance from the book...both in terms of Robb's character (his father's son) and the depth of Tywin's manipulations.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

Interesting in the book: In the show, our modern sensibilities tell us John Snow has really screwed up. In the book, he is pursuing real honor and meaning for his life. It is not quite the f' up to take the black as it is in the show.

See, I took a completely different impression from the book... The honour and glory seems to be a false dream peddled to the more common folk on the wall by those who had lordships in order to maintain morale. It seems, however, that behind closed doors they all realise how abysmal the conditions are and how futile their tasks seem...

This is what leads Jon to try and make a change, and why he reassesses the situation later on in the story. (Sorry it's vague... spoiler free!)

 

[gorfias]

Hey, cool. Another audiobook listener. Sometimes I feel like the only one.

The issues with the ASOIAF audiobooks all stem from Roy Dotrice. He's a friend of Martin's so he's not going away any time soon, but he's uh...not one of the better readers I've come across. His voices seem to range from "Crazy spinster granny" to "Crazy spinster granny pirate". Tyrion in particular sounds like a demented leprechaun. After a while you get used to him, but they initially used a different reader for book 4, and the transition from that guy's pretty staid, normal read through and Dotrice's doddering lunacy was pretty jarring.

If you like audiobooks you should give Abercrombie's circle of the world series a listen. Steven Pacey does an absolutely fantastic job bringing those books to life.

And as for Tyrion...what Tyrion loves is Tyrion. He may not be QUITE as "neutral evil" as his siblings tend to be, but he's not far off.

Must be some developments coming for Tyrion! Right now, he seems edged toward good compared to, say, Cersie. Jamie is taking a turn for the better on the show too. Your description of Roy's voicing is hysterical! Thanks for your thoughts on him. I'm putting your suggestion of Circle of the World on my wish list, thanks! A friend just gifted me the horror story 14. I liked that one a lot.

Interesting in the book: In the show, our modern sensibilities tell us John Snow has really screwed up. In the book, he is pursuing real honor and meaning for his life. It is not quite the f' up to take the black as it is in the show.

See, I took a completely different impression from the book... The honour and glory seems to be a false dream peddled to the more common folk on the wall by those who had lordships in order to maintain morale. It seems, however, that behind closed doors they all realise how abysmal the conditions are and how futile their tasks seem...

This is what leads Jon to try and make a change, and why he reassesses the situation later on in the story. (Sorry it's vague... spoiler free!)

At least at first, there appears to be honor in it. Not so much glory. But, as I wrote earlier, it offers solid ground to those caught in mid-leap. Jon is a title-less bastard. This is something at least.

And joining the US military, for instance, has its down side. People volunteer and some try to desert. It is a mixed bag: that their is honor and purpose there, but there is also the old lie: that fighting, killing and dying for a cause is glorious. No, it sucks.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Must be some developments coming for Tyrion! Right now, he seems edged toward good compared to, say, Cersie. Jamie is taking a turn for the better on the show too. Your description of Roy's voicing is hysterical! Thanks for your thoughts on him. I'm putting your suggestion of Circle of the World on my wish list, thanks! A friend just gifted me the horror story 14. I liked that one a lot.

What book are you on? I don't want to spoil anything.

The books you'd be looking for are The First Law trilogy, and then in order...Best Served Cold, The Heroes, and Red Country.

I listened to 14 as well. I thought it was reasonably well done...you don't see a lot of that Lovecraftian style horror. You might enjoy Ready Player One if you like one-offs.

 

[gorfias]

Must be some developments coming for Tyrion! Right now, he seems edged toward good compared to, say, Cersie. Jamie is taking a turn for the better on the show too. Your description of Roy's voicing is hysterical! Thanks for your thoughts on him. I'm putting your suggestion of Circle of the World on my wish list, thanks! A friend just gifted me the horror story 14. I liked that one a lot.

What book are you on? I don't want to spoil anything.

The books you'd be looking for are The First Law trilogy, and then in order...Best Served Cold, The Heroes, and Red Country.

I listened to 14 as well. I thought it was reasonably well done...you don't see a lot of that Lovecraftian style horror. You might enjoy Ready Player One if you like one-offs.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

My biggest dig at 14: it's book. He can do what he wants. They let on that all Heck would break loose if the needles left 0. Well, they did and to the outside world, heck, other tenants, nothing happened! Still a lot of fun though.

Checking Ready Player One. One offs are great.EDIT: Added that and The First Law trilogy to my wishlist. I just got 11 books from humblebundle.com for a total of $4.65. I got me some listening to do!

I'm at the first 1/10th of the 2nd book, watched 3 seasons (4 starts soon) and read the wiki on the characters so, I know more than I should.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm at the first 1/10th of the 2nd book, watched 3 seasons (4 starts soon) and read the wiki on the characters so, I know more than I should.

Oh wow, so...you're relatively unspoiled, then (unless you went ham on the Wikis). I'll say no more until you're caught up. I almost blundered into ADWD territory in our Tyrion discussion.

 

[Eldritch Warlord]

You should watch the show. Yes there's many changes from the books and yes they are largely for the worse but it's still an excellent series.

I also heard that Robb the Wolf falls for a different sort of girl, which strikes me as odd... Is Martin rewriting his own pieces through the show, or are the creators simply working their charm and exchanging the young wolf's honor for love?

I think that particular change was more to allow the show to build up their romance more, if they were faithful to the novels Jeyne Westerling would have first shown up halfway through the episode she and Robb marry. Honestly I wish they split A Clash of Kings into two seasons, they cut much more than half the novel for Season 2.

I don't think Tyrion is much different than his portrayal in the books though. His popularity among fans I would attribute more to Peter Dinklage's excellent performance than any reworking of the character.

 

[Belaam]

Of course you should. Just don't expect them to be the same.

Expecting the movie/tv show to be just like the book is the first step to Lovecraftian-type madness.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I think that particular change was more to allow the show to build up their romance more, if they were faithful to the novels Jeyne Westerling would have first shown up halfway through the episode she and Robb marry. Honestly I wish they split A Clash of Kings into two seasons, they cut much more than half the novel for Season 2.

It's possible they felt the circumstances surrounding his borderline shotgun marriage to Jeyne would've been far more ominous on screen than in the book, and I think they wanted the RW to be as shocking as possible. Who knows though. I hated the change personally.

I don't think Tyrion is much different than his portrayal in the books though. His popularity among fans I would attribute more to Peter Dinklage's excellent performance than any reworking of the character.

He's MUCH different. More confident, more attractive, and much, much nicer. Most of his nastier affectations have been white washed away. And given how they've been writing Shae, I am very, very worried that...

Spoiler: Book 3 spoilers

...they are going to remove her eventual betrayal of him and his subsequent brutal murder of her, as they will want to continue on with the "Tyrion the Hero" narrative they've established.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

Interesting in the book: In the show, our modern sensibilities tell us John Snow has really screwed up. In the book, he is pursuing real honor and meaning for his life. It is not quite the f' up to take the black as it is in the show.

See, I took a completely different impression from the book... The honour and glory seems to be a false dream peddled to the more common folk on the wall by those who had lordships in order to maintain morale. It seems, however, that behind closed doors they all realise how abysmal the conditions are and how futile their tasks seem...

This is what leads Jon to try and make a change, and why he reassesses the situation later on in the story. (Sorry it's vague... spoiler free!)

At least at first, there appears to be honor in it. Not so much glory. But, as I wrote earlier, it offers solid ground to those caught in mid-leap. Jon is a title-less bastard. This is something at least.

And joining the US military, for instance, has its down side. People volunteer and some try to desert. It is a mixed bag: that their is honor and purpose there, but there is also the old lie: that fighting, killing and dying for a cause is glorious. No, it sucks.

Weird last point to make to a serving British military officer... And I would have to again, respectfully disagree with you there mate... Serving is the greatest thing I have ever done, and I rarely see people in my own forces disenchanted about the whole thing. If there is a genuine problem with morale it tends to lie with poor leadership and a lack of direction. Nothing to do with the nature of the job. Only complete buffoons join the armed forces then desert because they don't like fighting!

 

[gorfias]

Interesting in the book: In the show, our modern sensibilities tell us John Snow has really screwed up. In the book, he is pursuing real honor and meaning for his life. It is not quite the f' up to take the black as it is in the show.

See, I took a completely different impression from the book... The honour and glory seems to be a false dream peddled to the more common folk on the wall by those who had lordships in order to maintain morale. It seems, however, that behind closed doors they all realise how abysmal the conditions are and how futile their tasks seem...

This is what leads Jon to try and make a change, and why he reassesses the situation later on in the story. (Sorry it's vague... spoiler free!)

At least at first, there appears to be honor in it. Not so much glory. But, as I wrote earlier, it offers solid ground to those caught in mid-leap. Jon is a title-less bastard. This is something at least.

And joining the US military, for instance, has its down side. People volunteer and some try to desert. It is a mixed bag: that their is honor and purpose there, but there is also the old lie: that fighting, killing and dying for a cause is glorious. No, it sucks.

Weird last point to make to a serving British military officer... And I would have to again, respectfully disagree with you there mate... Serving is the greatest thing I have ever done, and I rarely see people in my own forces disenchanted about the whole thing. If there is a genuine problem with morale it tends to lie with poor leadership and a lack of direction. Nothing to do with the nature of the job. Only complete buffoons join the armed forces then desert because they don't like fighting!

Thank you for serving. I did as well. As I wrote, there is a downside. Meaning there are upsides too, like the honor an purpose one finds there. But dying for one's country is not glorious. I recall saying I'll follow orders, but if I end up in a stupid conflict, I'm going to be pissed.

But I was comparing Jon taking the Black to joining the military. Again, in the show, this is 100% screw up. As evidence, he tries to abandon it at one point. I'm pointing out, the same kind of things happen when you join the military. Even so, it is NOT a complete, 100% screw up as the show appears to be saying.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

Thank you for serving. I did as well. As I wrote, there is a downside. Meaning there are upsides too, like the honor an purpose one finds there. But dying for one's country is not glorious. I recall saying I'll follow orders, but if I end up in a stupid conflict, I'm going to be pissed.

But I was comparing Jon taking the Black to joining the military. Again, in the show, this is 100% screw up. As evidence, he tries to abandon it at one point. I'm pointing out, the same kind of things happen when you join the military. Even so, it is NOT a complete, 100% screw up as the show appears to be saying.

Ah, I see! My apologies, I misinterpreted what you put. I haven't watched the third series, and it's been a long time since watching the second, so I was only going off of the books. That sounds like they changed the dynamic a lot then. I can see what you mean with the military piece, but I still wouldn't agree entirely. Linking your 2 points together you are saying that dying for your country, whether you agree with the cause or not, is screwing up. And I wouldn't agree with that. You join knowing the risks, and you at least to a certain extent beleive in what you are doing or you wouldn't have joined,

I know the US military is different. People join just because they have nothing better to do, or they want to take advantage of the GI Bill, or for other blase reasons, but with us it is different and we don't get as many instantly jaded people. Also... we have more ruthless selection processes and won't even allow people in if they don't seem to understand of fully beleive what they are signing up for.

 

[gorfias]

you are saying that dying for your country, whether you agree with the cause or not, is screwing up. And I wouldn't agree with that. You join knowing the risks, and you at least to a certain extent beleive in what you are doing or you wouldn't have joined,

I know the US military is different. People join just because they have nothing better to do, or they want to take advantage of the GI Bill, or for other blase reasons, but with us it is different and we don't get as many instantly jaded people. Also... we have more ruthless selection processes and won't even allow people in if they don't seem to understand of fully beleive what they are signing up for.

Dying in a just cause is noble but I wouldn't write, glorious. If the cause isn't just, you haven't screwed up, but your leaders sure have. Even I, wary of being wrongfully used, knew it wasn't up to me, while in the military, to make judgements about our leaders decisions and orders.

You compare the US with British. You arguably have a good point. I've been shocked by people asking for discharge making the news when they get orders to go to hostile territory but object stating, "hey, I just wanted college loans!". Despicable.

It might be a timing thing too. I'm probably a lot older than you. I joined just after Reagan was elected. We were still stinging from Vietnam. Arguably, the US military won the war, but the public lost the peace for us. I think our military was abused in this conflict by its own leaders and am angry about that.

I, and others, joined knowing there were risks. But I didn't want to be like one of those abused Vietnam warriors.

Deride him as many do, I have to write, experiencing America after Reagan's election, we were being told by him to feel proud again, to feel grateful to have been born a free American, and to be willing to serve our Country again. (I walked through a college to visit my sister, in Uniform. I was still sneered at: the scars of Vietnam were still there.) But more than one person would admit to me, a little wary, that as "corny" as it sounds, they joined because they really did want to serve our country and thought it worth defending.

Today, we have been at war in Kosovo. Juan McAmnesty, hero of Kosovo (er, I mean John McCain) actually wanted to put ground troops in a conflict that had nothing to do with us. We bombed the crap out of Libya and got our diplomat murdered as thanks. We do have a just cause going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. Many in the public are ready to pull defeat from the jaws of victory there as well. It is honorable to serve. It can and usually does provide a person with a great sense of purpose. I think Jon looked to get that by taking the black. It, and joining our military, is not a 100% screw up. Maybe now that I'm a civilian again, I can be more wary of how the military is used though.

 

[Fraught]

Oh for god's sake, if you want to pass time, watch it, it's a great show regardless of whether you read the books or not. If you're squirmy against adaptations changing things, then...what's the point of making this thread? There's thousands of movies and TV shows to watch, pick something else.

If you're interested in it then at least give it a chance, see if you like it. If you're indifferent, no use in wasting your time going through a lot of what is the same story.

 

[Ishal]

Did you watch the comicbook girl clip I posted? I thought it a hoot. Especially how different Tyrion is between book and show.

Haven't yet. Will check it out in a bit if work remains slow.

Tyrion is hugely changed in the show. He's certainly more telegenic, although I think his character has been robbed of some depth. I'm a bit worried he'll be getting a "hero edit" and lose much of his ethical greyness forging forward. We'll see.

I'll share in your worry.

Spoiler

For me, it'll be determined when the climactic scene between Tyrion, Tywin, and Shae happens. As it stands now, I'm thinking they'll completely rework it. It's going to be quite jarring for the audience to just see him strangle Shae. I doubt it'll even happen. I bet Tywin will kill her in some way, leading Tyrion to "avenge" her. That'll be the turning point. Much as I love Tyrion, I'm not really invested in him. He's been made too much of comic relief, at least as far as comic relief can be done in a show like this. What I mean is, I think most people look forward to how he's going to be snarky to whoever he's talking to, rather than anything else. I'm much more interested in Jamie this season.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I'll share in your worry.

Spoiler

For me, it'll be determined when the climactic scene between Tyrion, Tywin, and Shae happens. As it stands now, I'm thinking they'll completely rework it. It's going to be quite jarring for the audience to just see him strangle Shae. I doubt it'll even happen. I bet Tywin will kill her in some way, leading Tyrion to "avenge" her. That'll be the turning point. Much as I love Tyrion, I'm not really invested in him. He's been made too much of comic relief, at least as far as comic relief can be done in a show like this. What I mean is, I think most people look forward to how he's going to be snarky to whoever he's talking to, rather than anything else. I'm much more interested in Jamie this season.

There's one spot of hope...

Spoiler

Tyrion very conspicuously gives Shae a gold chain at one point in...Season 3 I believe. The chain of the Hand is now a pin, and you can't very well throttle someone with that. But yeah, I could very easily see it play out as you describe.

 

[gorfias]

The issues with the ASOIAF audiobooks all stem from Roy Dotrice. He's a friend of Martin's so he's not going away any time soon, but he's uh...not one of the better readers I've come across. His voices seem to range from "Crazy spinster granny" to "Crazy spinster granny pirate". Tyrion in particular sounds like a demented leprechaun..

I'm getting less used to him! I think it is because you warned me!

His Gendry is awful. This kid may come from a working class background, but he shouldn't sound like a dullard! And Briana sounds like the Crazy Spinster Granny you warned me of!

I'm still enjoying this 2nd book very much. I'd recommend anyone that has watched the show read or listen to the books anyway. It is a fun and different experience.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm getting less used to him! I think it is because you warned me!

His Gendry is awful. This kid may come from a working class background, but he shouldn't sound like a dullard! And Briana sounds like the Crazy Spinster Granny you warned me of!

I'm still enjoying this 2nd book very much. I'd recommend anyone that has watched the show read or listen to the books anyway. It is a fun and different experience.

Oh dear...you're only on book two. Dotrice's performance takes a precipitous drop between books 3 and 4-5. He forgets half the voices he was using, and characters start blending together. For example, all of the Lannisters start using Tyrion's leprechaun voice.