Poll: (Game of Thrones spoilers) Which of the Five Kings do you support?
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Not all five kings are there anymore though... Just saying.
Out of those six, Robb and Dany. Those are my two favourite characters. Or, well, they were.
Out of those six, Robb and Dany. Those are my two favourite characters. Or, well, they were.
Stannis all the way.
I'm constantly amazed that he actually takes advice from the people around him.
Although I'm not sure to what extent Melisandre has control over him.
I'm constantly amazed that he actually takes advice from the people around him.
Although I'm not sure to what extent Melisandre has control over him.
I would go with Robb Stark since his family is more noble compared to the other houses. Stark view his citizens as his family which the citizen themselves love them unlike the people in King Landing since their Kind is an arse.
Well, in order...
Robb Stark I consider to be an utter chode of a character. I really get the impression that he was just supposed to be a replacement for Ned, but the sheer fact that he barely features at all in Clash of Kings kind of reveals what a nothing character that he is. Even his parts in series 2 are pretty token and I really feel nothing toward him, which makes him worse than Joffrey in my eyes... instead of being merely hated, he is instead boring, in a way that Ned totally wasn't.
I actually kind of liked Renly Baratheon, even if his idea for a 'Rainbow Guard' was a bit poncy and gay. But then again, so is he, so I guess that's just good characterisation. But at the end of the day, the point of him is that even though people like him, he's just too flowery and faffs about too much to really be an effective king.
Stannis.... I really have mixed feelings toward Stannis, but he is definitely more interesting than Robb. He's definitely a character that you can both dislike and pity at the same time. He's more of a tragic hero than the others, his hatred and mistrust of people causing him to be lonely and without an heir, causing him to turn to a seductive woman stringing him along hopelessly. Although he's by far the best candidate for king in my eyes (despite his ever-weakening mind), that says a lot more about the other kings than him.
Balon I know very little about really (I've only encountered the first two installments of the series and the book, so I'm guessing he becomes more fleshed out later), although he has a savage kind of simplicity to his being-a-dick that I find quite appealing.
Joffrey... what can I say about Joffrey. He is an absolute ****, but in a way that makes him the highlight of every episode I watch. He's a wonderful character on every level, one that people love to hate- his acts of cruelty are both fascinating and really get you involved in your absolute hatred of him, which makes the moments when he is revealed as a sniveling child all the more gratifying. Definitely one of my favourites, after Tyrion.
Daenerys, however,has definitely endeared to me the most, going from being a simple and submissive bargaining chip by her brother and transforming into a brutal woman that hints her future as a ruthless queen. Personally, I love Daenerys, so I'm totally rooting for her to win in the end.
TL;DR
Robb's a boring arse.
Renly's ineffective, no matter how much I like him.
Stannis' status as a tragic hero endear him to me.
Balon I know next to nothing about.
Joffrey's a ****, but one that is absolutely delightful to watch in action.
I'm rooting for Daenerys.
Robb Stark I consider to be an utter chode of a character. I really get the impression that he was just supposed to be a replacement for Ned, but the sheer fact that he barely features at all in Clash of Kings kind of reveals what a nothing character that he is. Even his parts in series 2 are pretty token and I really feel nothing toward him, which makes him worse than Joffrey in my eyes... instead of being merely hated, he is instead boring, in a way that Ned totally wasn't.
I actually kind of liked Renly Baratheon, even if his idea for a 'Rainbow Guard' was a bit poncy and gay. But then again, so is he, so I guess that's just good characterisation. But at the end of the day, the point of him is that even though people like him, he's just too flowery and faffs about too much to really be an effective king.
Stannis.... I really have mixed feelings toward Stannis, but he is definitely more interesting than Robb. He's definitely a character that you can both dislike and pity at the same time. He's more of a tragic hero than the others, his hatred and mistrust of people causing him to be lonely and without an heir, causing him to turn to a seductive woman stringing him along hopelessly. Although he's by far the best candidate for king in my eyes (despite his ever-weakening mind), that says a lot more about the other kings than him.
Balon I know very little about really (I've only encountered the first two installments of the series and the book, so I'm guessing he becomes more fleshed out later), although he has a savage kind of simplicity to his being-a-dick that I find quite appealing.
Joffrey... what can I say about Joffrey. He is an absolute ****, but in a way that makes him the highlight of every episode I watch. He's a wonderful character on every level, one that people love to hate- his acts of cruelty are both fascinating and really get you involved in your absolute hatred of him, which makes the moments when he is revealed as a sniveling child all the more gratifying. Definitely one of my favourites, after Tyrion.
Daenerys, however,has definitely endeared to me the most, going from being a simple and submissive bargaining chip by her brother and transforming into a brutal woman that hints her future as a ruthless queen. Personally, I love Daenerys, so I'm totally rooting for her to win in the end.
TL;DR
Robb's a boring arse.
Renly's ineffective, no matter how much I like him.
Stannis' status as a tragic hero endear him to me.
Balon I know next to nothing about.
Joffrey's a ****, but one that is absolutely delightful to watch in action.
I'm rooting for Daenerys.
It doesn't matter who you support. Stannis Baretheon was King of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm the minute his brother died.
I'd say out of those(and I'm guessing this list is made of the one in the middle of season 2, unless they changed the order of the happenings in the show) I'd choose Daenerys because she is my favorite character, and of them all, she has the best claim to the Iron Throne(let Robb keep the North). Next would be Renly, because of them all, he seemed to care for the people more so than that of most of the others, and while he never took much seriously, he had as much claim to the throne as Robert and would probably be a better king than Stannis, and definitely better than Joffery or Greyjoy. I did not count Robb in this because he is not fighting for the Iron Throne, so that still leaves Westeros without a king if Robb is the only one left.
Now, for my list of those that I think(of all the characters) should be king. Tyrion, with his advisor Varys. He held together the affairs of King's Landing far better than anyone would under the circumstances and actually saught to make the realm a better place for others, not just give himself power, unlike the rest of the Lannisters.
Now, for my list of those that I think(of all the characters) should be king. Tyrion, with his advisor Varys. He held together the affairs of King's Landing far better than anyone would under the circumstances and actually saught to make the realm a better place for others, not just give himself power, unlike the rest of the Lannisters.
By that logic, Robert was never king, and Viserys was king the whole time, because he was of the blood rulers. Robert was an usurper. And so, not the rightful king(going by your standards), meaning neither would Stannis be the rightful king.WolfThomas said:
I disagree. Fealty works by oaths and duties binding everyone from King to common man. Aerys broke these bonds when he murdered Brandon and Rickard Stark and requested Jon Arryn to give him the heads of Eddard Stark and Robert Baretheon. They rebelled to save their lives, protect their lands and rescue Lyanna Stark (whether she need to be rescued is debatable).klaynexas3 said:
They fought back in self defense and as a by product ousted the Targaryans. Robert became King of the Seven Kingdoms when the Martells and Tyrells bent their knee and swore oaths of fealty to him. He protected his Kingdom when he stopped the Greyjoys from seceding.
Robert died. His sons were illegimite. Stannis is King.
I'm not saying Aerys was a good king, at least after he went mad anyway, and by no means am saying that Robert is not rightful for the throne since he rebelled and earned it, but that also means that whoever decided to say that he was king and backed it with a big enough army and support is just as rightful a king as Robert had been. I'm not disputing that Stannis is a king of his own land, king to his people, and king by rights of succession, but as long as others resist his rule, he is not their king. Renly himself said that he had as much claim to the throne as Robert, and he had the backing for it. Granted, he died, but it was still a very valid claim, and I'm willing to run with it.WolfThomas said:
Calling Robert Barethon a usurper kind of implies he didn't earn it.klaynexas3 said:
The whole point of uniting a kingdom like Westeros under a dynasty is to give peace through law, so every ambitious lord who want to be king can't put together an army and try to carve up a portion. By law and oaths all of the seven kingdoms should be Stannis', they whole point of the law is to prevent things like the War of Five Kings occurring.
Renly has no claim while Stannis is alive. All he has is two houses. It took four united and two abstaining to oust the previous kings. At best Renly is a Tyrell puppet. Renly claims that Joffrey is an illegal bastard, but subverts the same law by placing himself ahead of Stannis.
And worse it was stupid. Stannis had no male heirs, Renly would easily sat on the throne after him, but by declaring himself king he divided the popular base and undermines Stannis' genuine legitimacy. Robb Stark himself could not decide between Renly and Stannis, had there been only Stannis he would have likely supported him instead of declaring himself King in the North (and of the Trident), which separately was a dumb move, he gained no added support and gave fuel to the Lannister's lie about Ned wanting the throne.
Then by rights the throne should have passed to Rhaegar the moment the king lost the trust of his people. Instead, Robert fought and killed him, and would have had the rest of the Targaryens killed, had Viserys and Daenerys not escaped his reach. Robert DID usurp the throne, no matter how you look at it. He took it. Even if he had been a better ruler than any of the Targaryens, that does not change the fact that he unlawfully took the throne. Renly did have as much claim as Robert, even if he was stupid about it, and even if his army was not big enough. It was still as lawful as Robert's claim. Even if Renly was a puppet and he did make a stupid move(he did make a stupid move, that's not an "if" statement) it was still as true a claim as Robert's, or even Aegon I.WolfThomas said:
It was Robb, but now he's been brutally murdered obviously he's unlikely to win. Stannis can go fuck himself because it's his fault, the ironmen are all dicks no matter who's in charge, Daenerys is ineffectual as fuck, Renly might struggle to take power since he lacks that whole living thing, and the Lannisters are obviously massive cunts. So I support Jon. Not that he's got any real chance of being king.
DJjaffacake said:
If you're talking about burning the leeches I'm pretty sure they did nothing. The chapter shows that Melissandre tells Stannis which people to name, so most likely she has seen their deaths in the fires and is trying to claim credit for them.
Joffrey was poisoned by the Tyrell-Littlfinger alliance. Balon apparently died in a storm (or was murdered by a faceless man hired by Eurion Crowseye. Robb by a Lannister-Bolton-Frey plot that was probably already in motion.
Joffrey was poisoned by the Tyrell-Littlfinger alliance. Balon apparently died in a storm (or was murdered by a faceless man hired by Eurion Crowseye. Robb by a Lannister-Bolton-Frey plot that was probably already in motion.
Aerys broke the social contract between those lords and any Targaryan. Rheagar, albeit not being mad and evil like Robert Baretheon believes, did nothing to reconile this split when he supported his father at the Trident. Starks, Arryns, Baeretheon (and Tullys by familial alliance) have no duty to him or his heirs.klaynexas3 said:
Usurping implies either an illegal or immoral taking of the throne. Robert never set out to take the Targaryan throne. He ended the Targaryan dynasty. Created a new separate Baeretheon dynasty after he himself reconquered the Seven Kingdoms, they all swore new oaths to him. Daemon Blackfyre was a Usurper. Robert Baretheon was not.
Robert only claimed to be King after the fact. He'd secured Westeros by that point. Renly only had a quarter. Joffrey was a usurper. He's not a legal king. Any move against him is valid. But Stannis has done nothing to break the bonds between Renly and him, in fact he offered him the chance to be King while keeping all his lands. Renly has lord of Storm's End would have been sworn to the legal King of Westeros, who is Stannis.
For Renly to have a valid claim, the system would have be A. Not in place (hence Aegon the conquorer) or B. Have betrayed him and shattered legal bonds (Robert Baeretheon). Neither did. Renly was a usurper.
Robb and Balon I can actually support because they are moves for independance, albeit stupid ones.
(Thanks for the ASOIAF debate though, it's good fun!)