Poll: Games aren't gay enough.

[surg3n]

Depends on the game. Most of the time in gaming, sexuality is not a factor. Could Marcus Phoenix be gay? - of course, have you seen him with any girlfriends?. What about Master Chief?, is Cortana some sort of holographic beard?

Personally I find sex in videogames redundant - Videogames are what we do INSTEAD of having sex, and seeing sex in a videogame just reminds me of that. Moreover, most of the time that there is a gay character, he has to be overtly gay, like camp, over the top - GTA games are like this every time.
The point is, how do we know that these people are or aren't gay?, if sex is not a factor in the game, then why do we need to be inundated with stereotypes in order to avoid offending 'stereotypes'.

It's the same with all media though, every single gay character ever, who isn't a prison-shower-rapist, is camp and obvious. Every young gay man depicted on TV is camp and obvious, in fact they are oblivious - Just watch The Middle, or My Family, and there will at some point be a storyline where someones daughter dates some gay kid who doesn't know he's gay, but everyone else does, and blah blah blah. Is this some sort of media equality? - I want no part of it, it's not just demeaning to homosexuals, it's demeaning to anyone everywhere who has a brain.

So I guess my whole point is NO. We don't need specifically gay characters in videogames, just like we don't need specifically hetero characters in videogames. If sex is a factor, we tend to get the choice, and it doesn't involve camping up the main character or anything cheesy like that. Games that have sex as a factor at least try to avoid stereotypes I think - granted, sometimes it's just creepy, like in Fable when you go into a classroom and the male teacher starts flirting with you, in front of all the kids, and the kids start to get afraid... there's some creepy, weird stuff going on if you look closely at the original Fable .

Captcha: Lager Frenzy
I wish!

 

[theblindedhunter]

Perhaps I just prefer my boys skinny and weak looking compared to the stomping hulks that most men appear like in video games.

Just to jump in and say: this is one of the more annoying things to be found in the world, I think - that the culture as a whole is "accepting" of certain (stereotypical) men who are gay, but not of others.
It's especially annoying because it reinforces itself, I think. It seems to me that at school ages boys that are effeminate or "camp" are pushed into declaring themselves gay because everyone expects them to be, even if they may not. Boys that are tough or heavy set, on the other hand, are essentially forced into either hiding the fact or never having to confront it. Since the ones we expect to identify as gay are made to, it reinforces the cycle.
Not that I think you in particular don't recognize this, just made me think about it.

A little more on-topic, I'd be all for more gay characters, male and female (and other I suppose). In a lot of things it probably isn't "necessary" to the characterization of an individual, but it would be nice to make more people feel more accepted, and give them characters they may feel more connected to. Personally I often have a particular liking for well done lesbian characters, because it makes me think of a good friend of mine.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

I think it needs to go with the story and fit the character. That is the biggest mistake the entertainment industry has done so far with this issue. It seems like some are staying away from it while others are jumping on the "Gay" wagon.

Let me put it this way... would you want Kratos, God of War with the sexual appetite of a bunny from the depths of hell.

Spoiler

turn into this?

Spoiler

I wouldn't...

Now don't get me wrong. I do love gay characters. Fenris from Dragon Age is hot and has a personality type that would warrant such a sexual preference. He has issues with connecting to people, but if he does become connected it is a very powerful one.

.

who says Kratos would be any different if he was gay?.....in fact I can kind of see it...he is ancient greek after all

It might just be me. I picture him absolutely tearing up a man violently during sex. Its unnerving to me.

 

[Overusedname]

That is a huge, ENORMOUS falsification and exaggeration, the only stats we have indicate that 4% of people are exclusively gay, worldwide. If you count bisexuals you are looking at 7.5%. So you are way off there.

Not sure what you're going off of, but I'm guessing wikipedia or the source it used which is...well, flawed.

The confirmed percentage increase a little each year, suggesting people were simply lying. And most american's think it's what I said, reflecting that there are clearly a lot of gay people out there, many of whom keep it under wraps, contradicting the statistical with the personal:


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/05/americans-have-no-idea-how-few-gay-people-there-are/257753/

This article supports the questionable statistic, but I just wanted to point out how many people support this idea that there are more gays than the numbers support.

Several sources state percentages over what I said, some under what you said, some in between. I shouldn't have brought percentages into it, I guess. A statistic on this sort of thing won't be accurate for another hundred years, really. I apologize for that.

Most LGBT members say that the overestimate is a good thing, as it shows people are starting to know more and more openly gay people and accepting them. So...I guess at least it's a good thing to be wrong about? I dunno lol.

That article doesn't support the statistic of 30% at all! It says that "U.S. adults, on average, estimate that 25 percent of Americans are gay or lesbian", but then goes on to say only 4% of those surveyed in 2011 guessed in the correct band of "Under 5%"

Sure, I imagine it is probably higher than 5% if everyone answered honestly, but no where near as much as 1/3 of the population

I didn't say that article supported it at all either. I even noted explicitly that it DID support the questionable statistic of 5%.

It just brought up the fact that most people guess around that amount, which brings the statistic into major questioning. It contradicts the average experience by a massive margin. That's all. I just wanted to emphasize how worthless statistics on this are, and that I shouldn't have brought it up...Which is why I apologized for it...So....yeah. Sorry.

Personally I find sex in videogames redundant - Videogames are what we do INSTEAD of having sex, and seeing sex in a videogame just reminds me of that.

This made me lol, so thanks. XD

 

[everythingbeeps]

Well it's tough to say. On the one hand, I would say "as long as it's not gratuitous", but most of the straight stuff in games is gratuitous. So I won't say that then.

More gratuitous gay please!

 

[RJ 17]

In other news, games aren't feminine enough, aren't black enough, aren't Russian enough, are Hispanic enough, aren't rich enough, aren't poor enough, aren't Mongolian enough...see where this is going?

It's called target audience. You can either pander to a select few (i.e. the gay community when compared to the rest of the world) or you can create a product that has appeal to a broader swath of the audience. Now, I'd have to hope that the gaming community is mature enough (pffffft...nope, couldn't say it with a straight face) to judge a game based on its merrits and not the sexual preferences of its main (or supporting) characters. But ask yourself this: in how many games does sexual preference even matter? Could you not, for shits and giggles, pretend the protagonist of Black Ops is a homosexual? There's certainly nothing that says he isn't. I bet Star Fox could be gay if you really wanted him to be, nothing ever said he was straight.

I can only imagine that the reason games don't specifically write in gay characters is because sex and sexual preferences have absolutely nothing to do with the game they're creating.

Edit: This ties in very well with Notch declaring that Steve and all the animals in Minecraft are homosexual hermaphrodites. Yeah, they could be, but the major point of what he was saying is that in his game, sex and sexuality have no purpose or meaning, so it's pointless trying to put lables on them in such a way.

 

[Vault101]

Depends on the game. Most of the time in gaming, sexuality is not a factor. Could Marcus Phoenix be gay? - of course, have you seen him with any girlfriends?. What about Master Chief?, is Cortana some sort of holographic beard?

Personally I find sex in videogames redundant - Videogames are what we do INSTEAD of having sex, and seeing sex in a videogame just reminds me of that. Moreover, most of the time that there is a gay character, he has to be overtly gay, like camp, over the top - GTA games are like this every time.
The point is, how do we know that these people are or aren't gay?, if sex is not a factor in the game, then why do we need to be inundated with stereotypes in order to avoid offending 'stereotypes'.

I've kind of already said it but this irks me somewhat

"I play games because-" yeah sure..thats great..for you .....but then would you say the same things about movies?

if the creator wants to put it in for a reason (a valid one at least from their perspective) then by all means

like the sex scene in the Mass Effect 1...now regardless if you think it was fine/awful, it had a point,and I feel stuff like that needs to be done, to break down peoples reluctance to have certain issues in any media

again....just a pet peeve of mine

 

[pffh]

I think it needs to go with the story and fit the character. That is the biggest mistake the entertainment industry has done so far with this issue. It seems like some are staying away from it while others are jumping on the "Gay" wagon.

Let me put it this way... would you want Kratos, God of War with the sexual appetite of a bunny from the depths of hell.

Spoiler

turn into this?

Spoiler

I wouldn't...

Now don't get me wrong. I do love gay characters. Fenris from Dragon Age is hot and has a personality type that would warrant such a sexual preference. He has issues with connecting to people, but if he does become connected it is a very powerful one.

.

who says Kratos would be any different if he was gay?.....in fact I can kind of see it...he is ancient greek after all

Wasn't he a Spartan? Since yeah that kinda guarantees that he has sex with men. Other big burly spartan men all oiled up for the fight and.... sorry drifted off there for a moment.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

Perhaps I just prefer my boys skinny and weak looking compared to the stomping hulks that most men appear like in video games.

Just to jump in and say: this is one of the more annoying things to be found in the world, I think - that the culture as a whole is "accepting" of certain (stereotypical) men who are gay, but not of others.
It's especially annoying because it reinforces itself, I think. It seems to me that at school ages boys that are effeminate or "camp" are pushed into declaring themselves gay because everyone expects them to be, even if they may not. Boys that are tough or heavy set, on the other hand, are essentially forced into either hiding the fact or never having to confront it. Since the ones we expect to identify as gay are made to, it reinforces the cycle.
Not that I think you in particular don't recognize this, just made me think about it.
/quote]

I had some trouble at the beginning, but I do now. I was shocked when I learned Vin Diesel was bi. Its not like I didn't get that looks don't force sexual preference, I just didn't see the attraction so it never really occurred to me.

But like I said earlier I think a gay character needs to fit the character's personality.

 

[Vault101]

It's called target audience. You can either pander to a select few (i.e. the gay community when compared to the rest of the world) or you can create a product that has appeal to a broader swath of the audience

who says that having a certain element in a game is somehow pandering or makes it unappealing for a broader audience?

Fallout New Vegas had two gay companions and a protagonist hwo could be gay/bi attracted to ghouls or techno-sexual (testing out Fisto the sex bot more than once if you know what I mean)

was that game pandering or somwho unappealing to most people? what about mass effect?

just because something is there does not make it pandering, and who says that straight people cant play as or in a game with gay people? who says white people can't play a game with black people in it?

if that really were the case then as a female I'd hardly play any games ever...

I get what your saying from a marketing perspecitve..but generally it doesn't have to be that way

 

[Assassin Xaero]

Voted "Bengay." because it was the only neutral/I don't care option. Personally, I think romance in games is a waste of time. I don't think they should make games where you can be gay just to do it, but if they are going to have it where you can have relationships, why not include straight and gay?

 

[False Nobility]

*wakes up to four pages of responses*


Well, I hope people read my edit in the OP. It's all I can do now. XD

I just want variety if it's GENUINE, not if it's forced token characters. We cool? We cool.

 

[Jammy2003]

I didn't say that article supported it at all either. I even noted explicitly that it DID support the questionable statistic of 5%.

It just brought up the fact that most people guess around that amount, which brings the statistic into major questioning. It contradicts the average experience by a massive margin. That's all. I just wanted to emphasize how worthless statistics on this are, and that I shouldn't have brought it up...Which is why I apologized for it...So....yeah. Sorry.

Ah, I now see exactly what you meant by posting it. Right, but to me that doesn't reflect that it is "closer to the true figure" (at least not intentionally) but rather due to the level of media coverage (both positive and negative) people think it is a much higher percentage than it actually is. Not because people actually know this number of people in their lives who are gay and this is reflected in their choice due to personal experience, but rather it's always "Well I don't know any/many, but I hear about them a lot so there must be loads somewhere else". I know a few, probably less than 5% of people I know, but then again I grew up in a pretty quiet and conservative area which doesn't foster people revealing that they are.

So.... yeah, statistics are useless, because there are so many factors its impossible to tell if the number should be higher or lower so.... I agree with you, in a way, I guess? Sorry for misunderstanding your purposes in posting the article, I was trying to figure out your stance but my head wouldn't wrap around which way you were arguing

Captch: Get your goat
But, Captch, I don't have a goat!

 

[surg3n]

Depends on the game. Most of the time in gaming, sexuality is not a factor. Could Marcus Phoenix be gay? - of course, have you seen him with any girlfriends?. What about Master Chief?, is Cortana some sort of holographic beard?

Personally I find sex in videogames redundant - Videogames are what we do INSTEAD of having sex, and seeing sex in a videogame just reminds me of that. Moreover, most of the time that there is a gay character, he has to be overtly gay, like camp, over the top - GTA games are like this every time.
The point is, how do we know that these people are or aren't gay?, if sex is not a factor in the game, then why do we need to be inundated with stereotypes in order to avoid offending 'stereotypes'.

I've kind of already said it but this irks me somewhat

"I play games because-" yeah sure..thats great..for you .....but then would you say the same things about movies?

if the creator wants to put it in for a reason (a valid one at least from their perspective) then by all means

like the sex scene in the Mass Effect 1...now regardless if you think it was fine/awful, it had a point,and I feel stuff like that needs to be done, to break down peoples reluctance to have certain issues in any media

again....just a pet peeve of mine

It's not a case of whether or not the game has a sex scene. When it's part of the plot, then the player has no control over it, no opinion on what the sexuality of their avatar should be. My point is that when it's possible to go and have sex in a videogame, well we do it not because it's arrousing, or fullfilling - we do it because most of the time, we will get some health back, or be able to gain something from it. To me, that's redundant, it's not part of the plot, it's just something added by the developers.

Let's remember Hot Coffee, on GTA:SA you could go and have sex with a girlfriend, and someone made it a mini-game. Now, the first time you have sex with that girl, it's actually part of the plot, it takes a bit of effort to seal the deal, and that is worthwhile and entertaining. I see the plot shag as part of the game, Hot Coffee, or even just the standard shagging, well it's a little bit sad when it's just there for the sake of it IMO. That's all.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

OT: Is this really necessary? I mean really? If you are playing a game , and the thing that bothers you the most is the lack of homosexual relationships , there is something wrong . There are so many other things wrong with the gaming industy , this is not a priority . Next thing you know transgenders/transexuals/phedophiles/beastiality is going to want to be represented in gaming . Stop forcing your views on people ! Then again enchanted arms had an idiot , and gay guy and a transgender as the main cast ...

Also i laughed when you said the medium was growing up . It isn't .

As for me personally . I'm not homophobic; i don't want homosexuality shoved in my face , and forced upon me in my games . It would be enough to stop me from buying a game i want .

There. Fixed.

 

[Overusedname]

So.... yeah, statistics are useless, because there are so many factors its impossible to tell if the number should be higher or lower so.... I agree with you, in a way, I guess? Sorry for misunderstanding your purposes in posting the article, I was trying to figure out your stance but my head wouldn't wrap around which way you were arguing

It's all good, thanks for keeping it classy.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Bit of a tangent here, but what really annoys me is what happens with 90% of non-heterosexual characters in video games, especially Bioware or Bethesda RPGs.

At some point a character will mention they're gay or bisexual or whatever. But they're not actually allowed to use any of those words, because that would be forcing it in your face or something. They're only ever allowed to mention it by framing the statement around someone of the same gender who they had/have a relationship with. Then both characters just carry on from there. No one really goes into it at all, they just kind of drop it into conversation and the player is often left mentally shifting gears over the fact that a character just said they're gay without actually saying they're gay. It just seems to show that they want to have gay people in the storyline with actually having any actual thought about their alternative sexualities.

And I suppose within reason that's fine. Not every game needs to get bogged down in awkward discussions about characters sexuality. It is possible for a character to reveal their sexuality in an offhand manner, especially when the game is in a setting where that sexuality is more universally accepted. It just seems slightly weird when no video game characters ever say something slightly awkward like "Oh, I didn't realise you were... Well, you know... Gay". Makes the dialogue that little bit less believable, from my point of view.

Depends on the game. Most of the time in gaming, sexuality is not a factor. Could Marcus Phoenix be gay? - of course, have you seen him with any girlfriends?. What about Master Chief?, is Cortana some sort of holographic beard?

Because I'm a Halo nerd I just wanted to note that all Spartans lose their sex drive as a negative side effect of the surgery and genetic enhancements they go through. Also Cortana is pretty much a mental projection of the woman who kidnapped Master Chief at the age of six to spend his life serving the military, who he and all the other Spartans came to think of as a mother figure.

Yeah, Halo's surprisingly messed up in places.

 

[In Search of Username]

Steve in Mass Effect 3 was a great gay character. He was openly gay but nothing was ever really made of it; he didn't act effeminate, didn't fit any stereotypes, acted exactly as a straight character who'd lost their partner would.

 

[Thistlehart]

While this may not actually apply, if you have the opportunity to play The Secret World, there are some awesome NPCs that you find out are gay if you talk to them enough.

One is a philosophical bomb-maker who is sticking around a hell-hole to protect someone he has feelings for, knowing that those feelings will never be returned.

The other two I've run into are basically a couple, stuck out in the middle of the desert. They're collegues, but if you talk to them enough and listen, they make subtle cutesy talk to each other. Of course, once you've talked to them long enough, they become more "comfortable" with your presence, and aren't very subtle (though they're still very polite). They are, however, badasses. One tries to stab a mummy to death with his walking stick, and the other is packing a greatsword.

Love those characters! Very well done.