Poll: Gender Equality

[Silent Protagonist]

Should men and women be treated equally?
Depends on what you mean by "treated equally." In a broad, social, value of a human being sense, of course yes. When you step into the doctor's office, however, I would hope they take your sex into account and ensure you receive the appropriate treatment and testing. There are, in fact, biological differences between the sexes and those differences have to be taken into account. The biological reality of the matter means there are certain situations where men and women will not be "equal" and no amount of social engineering can change that. I would love to give a simple one word "yes" like so many others but I have seen far too many people assume "treated equally" means "treated exactly the same regardless of circumstances"

Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?
I don't think I would call it a problem. There definitely still exists some social expectations and conventions that are not gender equal but none of them seem detrimental or consistent enough for me to characterize them as major problem. Especially not compared to the gender issues in other parts of the world. We can definitely improve, though, so I guess I will answer maybe? I would characterize it more as a series of little problems rather than a broad singular issue.

How are men treated better than women in society?
I was surprised at the difficulty I had in thinking of concrete examples. There are the biological issues of generally being bigger and stronger but society can't be blamed for that. Supposedly men benefit from being favored in hidden ways such as being more likely to be hired and promoted in most industries but that can be difficult to quantify broadly and even then the tendency seems to be waning or at the very least actively campaigned against. Fashion for men is much simpler, but several here have called that a way men are worse off then women so I don't know if that counts. Men are sometimes assumed to be more knowledgeable in certain areas but the same can be said for women so I guess that's a wash. They generally have less pressure or value ascribed to their appearance so I guess that's one.

How are women treated better than men in society?
Women are praised and rewarded for breaking from their gender conventions where as men are almost always shamed for doing the same.
Professions where women are under represented are actively campaigned to get more women involved while the same can not be said for female dominated professions.
Men are still expected to be providers regardless of the increased presence of women in the (better paid)workforce. This manifests in many ways such as men being expected to pay for dates and spend money on their girlfriends that is frequently not reciprocated, the social acceptance of a married woman not having a job(whether or not there is children) where as unemployed married men are considered losers and deadbeats even if they act as a stay at home dad, as well as others.
Men are expected to tough it out, ignore pain and discomfort, and never show fear. This can be problematic when they won't seek help for medical issues, particularly with regards to mental health.
Women are far less likely than men to end up homeless or commit suicide.
The social expectation is that men should go without so that women don't have to in times of hardship. Chivalry. This is related to the expectation for men to "tough it out" mentioned above.
Women have far more resources and support available to them in instances of abuse or rape. If a woman hits a man the assumption is usually that he did something to deserve it, but a man hitting a women is never acceptable even in self defense.
Women cannot be drafted and are barred from the most dangerous roles when serving in the military. Some call that a disadvantage for women though, so it might not count.
Women have been having more success in higher education and have more scholarship opportunities available to them than men.
Women are given far lighter sentences for committing the same crimes compared to men.
Women are favored in matters of child custody and often in areas such as child support and alimony as well.
Women are advantaged in terms of reproductive rights but that is likely mostly the fault of biology rather than society.
Women are generally portrayed far more favorably in many forms of popular media
Women are permitted to be more forward with their sexual desires while men are shamed if they do the same. However, I think the issue of numerous partners making a man a stud but a woman a slut makes that a bit of a wash.

I came up with far more than I was expecting. Maybe I need to rethink my answer to the second question.

If there is a problem, how bad is it?
I addressed this in the second question. Not that bad.

If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?
Well I think part of the problem is the way we have been trying to solve the problem. Up until very recently, the focus has been solely on the female side of the gender equality equation. Even today, though, trying to address the ways men are disadvantaged is often dismissed as sexist, backward, anti-feminist, and detrimental. We have done a pretty great job at advancing women's issues and changing the social expectations for women, but the social expectations for men have remained largely unchanged. Helping men achieve social equality should not be opposed to feminism, but a parallel cause working toward the same ultimate goal

 

[EyeReaper]

Ehh, I'll bite.

Should men and women be treated equally?
Most of the time, yes. Although there are certain situations I can think of where a man or a woman can be favored preferably

Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?
Oh, of course. Specially on the internet

How are men treated better than women in society?
Guys have a lot of bonuses, especially in political and religious fields. A lot of CEO's and such, Head Honchos, generally lean towards maleness. A guy who sleeps around a lot is a stud, looked upon with envy, a lady who does the same is a slut looked upon with contempt. Dudes don't feel pressured to wear make-up. Men can generally get away with a higher level of undress than women can, too. He can be used as a gender-neutral word.

How are women treated better than men in society?
Women get to be portrayed as the smart one in things like sitcoms, to contrast the bumbling, idiotic dad. If a woman backs down from a fight, or tries to avoid violence, she generally won't be ridiculed, while dudebros lose manpoints, or whatever. Women get a whole lot more options when it comes to fashion, clothing and shoes. A girl can pull off a tomboy look, but a boy crossdressing is seen as unnatural. Women of all shapes and sizes, from anorexic-looking models to BBWs can be seen as sexy, but the margin generally accepted for males is much slimmer. And don't even get me started on the whole "Women can't rape/abuse men" thing.

If there is a problem, how bad is it?
I'm not entirely sure. Sure, there's a problem, but how big of a problem it is varies from place to place, and I'm not willing to put in the time to research that sort of junk right now.

If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?
I'm not sure we can fix the problem though, It's like trying to cure racism, without going full thought police on someone, there will always be some sect of humanswho believe the other side to be inferior.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how much do you hate me for making this thread?
eh. 7.8 not enough water.

 

[BathorysGraveland2]

Should men and women be treated equally?
Definitely. Not being a feminist is fine. But actively being anti-gender equality seems to be on the same page as racism, in my eyes.

Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?
Yeah. It's pretty inarguable.

How are men treated better than women in society?
Less judgement based on both physical (especially physical) and mental merits (women are seen more as emotive and manipulative, for example). More open sexuality seems to be seen as a thing of disgrace towards women for some reason. If there's ever an insult used towards a woman, you're almost guaranteed it'll be a sexual slur (whore, slut, etc). There's also a lot of people who expect women to be child raising housewives and not much else. Less job opportunities as well, I believe, and they tend to get paid slightly less than men.

How are women treated better than men in society?
An attractive, confident woman can be judged more positively based on a purely physical level. I'm guilty of this, in that I often feel more for women I'm attracted to (on the reverse, though, non-attractive women are often scorned, so it might be less gender and more an individual thing). Anything involving children the woman usually has the upperhand, especially something like trying to secure custody of a child in a legal battle. Sexual assault cases also tend to favour women as the default. This could be summed up as no one wanting to tell a rape victim she's lying, but at the same time no one should want to condemn someone who's crimes haven't been proven and is potentially innocent, especially of such a heinous act.


If there is a problem, what is it and how bad is it?
I think it's most traditional gender roles that causes a lot of people's beliefs to form, and be set in stone. I feel these traditions, which have been in place for thousands of years, need to be torn down for a global change in attitude. As it is, though, people are changing and being more productive about it already which is great to see. Here in the west I wouldn't call the situation bad as much as it is still needing of development. In many eastern countries however, yeah, it's truly appalling.

If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?
Education. By both parents and state to try and educate the next generations and not feed them traditions and gender roles.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how much do you hate me for making this thread?
1. It's a valid topic, and it's nice to see someone open it up peacefully and wanting to get a rational discussion going, instead of dragging that bloody nightmare that should not be named into it.

 

[Shraggler]

As a preface, I'm a (heterosexual) male.

Should men and women be treated equally?

Yes.

Is there a societal gender equality problem in the first world?

I think there are multiple problems for all genders.

How are men treated better than women in society?

Men are usually seen as the leaders in most scenarios, whether social or business/professionally. They're almost always addressed or acknowledged first and their statements or opinions regarding certain topics tend to carry more weight and are treated as more substantial.

In many cases men are seen as more capable, even if biology/sexual dimorphism isn't a factor.

Women put pressure on other women to look a certain way, whether it be physically and what they wear to the most irrational things like jewelry. Men don't really have an equivalent, either in the amount of pressure or the standards set. We're encouraged to keep in shape, but our physical appearance is nowhere near as publicly addressed as it is for women.

Both a blessing and a curse, men tend to have a clearer path than women in terms of educational direction and, eventually, career decisions. Almost every woman I went to school with did far better academically than me and my male peers, yet got degrees in "Liberal Arts" and teaching. And while plenty of guys I went to school with are still directionless after college, a higher percentage of the males I know have promising careers in fields they not only desire (and are good at), but contribute more to the whole.

How are women treated better than men in society?

Women have more inherent value than men. Simply by existing, they have value. Nature has us bow down to sexual desire, there's no way around that, and men generally seem to have a far higher sex drive than women. It's completely imbalanced fundamentally. Men need to work in order to be perceived as valuable, whether it be in casual social context or in a professional setting. A woman will nearly always have more social capital than a man in any social setting, and I say 'nearly' because I'm hoping there's chance of a situation existing beyond my imagination & experience where that isn't generally true - I'm trying to give reality the benefit of the doubt.

There are a lot of negative phrases regarding men that do not have a female equivalent (e.g. Where's the female equivalent of 'sausage fest' that carries the same negative connotation? It doesn't exist.)

One comment I read or heard somewhere regarding the applications of the words "player" before a dude and "slut" before a dudette is that a male's sexual promiscuity is 'celebrated' more often because generally men have to work to find someone they're sexually attracted to who is willing to have sex with them; women do not. (Note: I don't have any value judgments there as I'd need to actually get to know someone before I could determine their character. I think everyone should have as much sex as they want to/can get. Pleasure is fleeting, pain is infinite. We've precious little to look forward to upon waking up day-to-day, and we can cease existing altogether at any time. To live is to suffer. We must seek pleasure, even in its simplest form, so take what you can get.) But, that difference between the perception of sexual promiscuity between the sexes is there, and so are the equality issues that come with it.

Women are permitted to be more forward with their sexual desires while men are shamed if they do the same. However, I think the issue of numerous partners making a man a stud but a woman a slut makes that a bit of a wash.

This is true, but I think that despite the apparent contradiction, there's reasoning: women are permitted to be more forward with their sexual desires in private company. As with almost anything, the minute that goes public without context, people begin to assume the character of that woman.

As I said above, women have higher inherent value and social capital because of their sex. Also, men seem to be more possessive, and since any given woman can effectively choose who she wants to be with more so than any given man, I imagine this causes stress, anxiety and fear of loss to men. In that case, a woman who's declarative of her promiscuity is judged more negatively because of that potential for being unfaithful. Since trust, fidelity and honesty are highly important, if not absolutely necessary for any relationship, being perceived as highly promiscuous is frequently seen as a negative trait with women.


Back OT: While I don't respect the guys who consider themselves "pick-up artists", I can understand the underlying reasoning for it. The game is rigged, and some people are willing to sacrifice intellectual honesty in order to succeed.

Women have a far wider breadth of what men find attractive, despite what traditional media would have us believe. Women can be as hairy or as shaved as they want (and I'm talking everywhere, not just the temple of Venus), as thin or fat as they want, whatever, and they can score a fairly attractive dude, more so than a man with "less than ideal" attributes. As Reaper [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.873799-Poll-Gender-Equality#21940421] said above, the range of attractiveness for men is much narrower, but it is less publicly discussed & addressed.

Women don't have as many words that connote social undesirability. The terms 'pervert' & 'creep' are especially gendered (i.e. most people think of men in either role).

Women seem to have the advantage when it comes to double-standards.

Women seem to assume telepathy or clairvoyance when it comes to communication [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXpFtwYIKew] (granted, this is an extreme example to illustrate a point). This is frustrating as all hell, and I've been single my entire life. I can only imagine the mindfuck that goes on when constantly engaged with someone who thinks you're psychic, but are ignoring them for whatever reason.

If there is a problem, what is it and how bad is it?

I think it's simply a lack of communication. Men and women are different. Yes, yes, people are different, but there is a core difference between men and women. Differences can cause schisms and conflict as history has proven to us.

Communication and honesty are key in understanding one another and our perspectives on the world.

However, if I were to simplify the hell out of it in a very general sense: Women have a more difficult time professionally, men have a more difficult time socially.

If there is a problem, how would you try to solve it?

As above, there's more than one problem. Issues should be acknowledged and addressed if they're to be solved.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how much do you hate me for making this thread?

1? 0 if it were an option. I don't care who makes a thread for what. It is entirely in everyone's power to not click on a thread. As it stands, I'm with Bathory [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/18.873799.21940507] on this as it feels like a pertinent discussion to be had.