Poll: Gender recognition offence

[Politrukk]

Alright people,

We've had the entire tumblr/facebook/reddit/internet gender thing going for a while and people feel they should be accepted or have become more open about their newfangled gender roles.

Even if I were to accept a thing such as genderfluid-non binary-preffered pronouns they/them.
(something I recently encountered in a person)


I find it difficult to understand how I should find out that someone who has the physical aspects and aesthetic of a female (Breasts,bodily shape,wears makeup,dresses feminine)
Is gender fluid/non-binary.

Let alone accept that I should be shamed and hated for reffering to them as a "she".


Aside from that I would like to ask what you guys think of this so called they/them pronoun, to me that feels like a ridiculous way to refer to a singular person, could they not have chosen a better form for it?




Stuff like this absolutely drives me away from accepting these kind of people as normal.


Edit:

I find it odd people here assume I was misgendering this person on purpose, even after I explicitly stated that was not my intention, I was just taken aback by the strong worded reply and harassment that followed.

 

[Thaluikhain]

If using "them" and "they" as pronouns is driving you away from accepting people, that might be interpreted to say something more about you than about them. Or they.

(Also, "they" chose those pronouns? Was there a vote?)

 

[Barbas]

It really has been going for a while, hasn't it? I wouldn't worry unduly about normality; humans are the most abnormal creatures on this planet.

You shouldn't be shamed and hated for it, so if someone responds that way, they're not worth your time. If they want something from you, then they can show you the requisite respect instead of demanding it. If they can't handle that, you are under no obligation whatsoever to respect their wishes. If you can't remember their preferred pronoun, just ask them what they prefer.

Or don't do any of that. It's up to you how much effort you want to put into human relations, really. You hopefully get as much out of it as you put into it.

 

[Zontar]

Well I can't speak to most of this on account of the fact the internet has not come to an agreement of what most of these terms mean, but I can state that gender-fluidity is very much not a thing despite what some people may tell themselves. It's a physically impossible state of the mind remapping itself on a whim that if it was real would be tantamount to an extreme bipolar disorder that would make the person in question unable to properly think (or function in society) and would require near constant supervision to make sure they don't harm themselves in the same way schizophrenics do (having a psychology teacher who detests gender ideologies who make things up was a fun semester).

Basically someone claiming to be gender fluid is looking for attention. Outside of that as I said before I can't really comment on the matter since the people claiming to be "experts" (on the internet of course) haven't come to anything close to a consensus on what these terms even mean.

 

[Dizchu]

The people that get offended by honest mistakes are assholes. If they can't accept that someone can mess up once in a while then honestly I'm not sure why they bother with the human race.

However, if you are unsure in any way either:
a) use "they" and "them" which are gender-neutral
b) ask

There, that should clear everything up. Usually people are willing to clarify if you get it wrong. If they don't then to be honest I consider them stuck-up and rude. Alternatively they can be like me and not care what pronouns are used, but I'm probably part of a small minority that's comfortable with that so don't count on them being okay with it.

By the way "they/them" have been neutral singular pronouns for ages. I don't understand why people feel so uncomfortable using them, as they've been used in place of "he or she" pretty regularly even outside of transgender discussions.

 

[1981]

Aside from that I would like to ask what you guys think of this so called they/them pronoun [...]

I've used it for ages. Sometimes you don't know if someone's a man or a woman, or you need to talk about a person who could be either, or it's not appropriate to bring up a person's sex at all.

Let alone accept that I should be shamed and hated for reffering to them as a "she".

Who's claiming that?

Stuff like this absolutely drives me away from accepting these kind of people as normal.

I don't think it's a priority for most people to gain your acceptance (and I'm not being rude).

 

[Politrukk]

Aside from that I would like to ask what you guys think of this so called they/them pronoun [...]

I've used it for ages. Sometimes you don't know if someone's a man or a woman, or you need to talk about a person who could be either, or it's not appropriate to bring up a person's sex at all.

Let alone accept that I should be shamed and hated for reffering to them as a "she".

Who's claiming that?

Stuff like this absolutely drives me away from accepting these kind of people as normal.

I don't think it's a priority for most people to gain your acceptance (and I'm not being rude).

They wish for me to accept them and for society to accept them.

hence the argument that arises when one does not, in this case me.

I pose the questions in this thread due to an incident of it I came across recently

 

[Kae]

The person is whatever they say they are, I couldn't care less about it, if they feel more comfortable being the opposite sex as they were born or anything in between it is not my place to tell them what they are or aren't, why would I waste my time and energy on something that has no benefit to me but clearly causes other people grief?

As for people that get offended by honest mistakes, fuck 'em, I mean a lot of people get confused for the opposite sex and take no offense for it and the ones that do are assholes, so it shouldn't be any different with anyone else, I didn't get mad when I was a teen and people mistook me for a girl, I understood that I looked sexually ambiguous and just tried to politely shrug it off even if it was awkward at times, like seriously really fucking awkward.

 

[Knight Captain Kerr]

You should try your best not misgender people. If you intentionally misgender someone, you're being an asshole, stop it. If you accidentally misgender someone and they correct you then just apologize, correct yourself and move on. If you can apologize and change the pronouns you use after being told you are misgendering someone's dog, you can change the pronouns you use for a trans person.

If you aren't sure what pronouns to use on a person you can use they/them (just like how if someone is talking about their doctor and you don't know what gender they are, you'd probably use they/them pronouns, you probably already use they/them pronouns to refer to singular people all the time) or just ask them. It's also possible you could infer what pronouns a person uses through what other people use for them although it may not be as accurate.

 

[1981]

They wish for me to accept them and for society to accept them.

Who are "they"? If you mean the T and possibly the Q in LGBTQ, that's a pretty diverse group.

hence the argument that arises when one does not, in this case me.

When you put it like that, it sounds like you simply don't accept them. That it's not about you being shamed for a grammar mistake.

 

[Politrukk]

You should try your best not misgender people. If you intentionally misgender someone, you're being an asshole, stop it. If you accidentally misgender someone and they correct you then just apologize, correct yourself and move on. If you can apologize and change the pronouns you use after being told you are misgendering someone's dog, you can change the pronouns you use for a trans person.

If you aren't sure what pronouns to use on a person you can use they/them (just like how if someone is talking about their doctor and you don't know what gender they are, you'd probably use they/them pronouns, you probably already use they/them pronouns to refer to singular people all the time) or just ask them. It's also possible you could infer what pronouns a person uses through what other people use for them although it may not be as accurate.

But does an accidental misgender, a very logical one to my opinion in this case qualify for a torrent of slurs and shaming?

Honestly in this incident the person just threw off every intent of conversation because I had said "she", they did not look anything else then a she.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Just call people what they want to be called, even if you don't agree with them. No need to be rude.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Eh. Just treat people the way they'd like to be treated. It's not that hard.

Outside of very obvious Poes, I've never seen anyone identifying as, say, a Trans-Galactic Lemonade Flavored Lizard Queen, but if I did encounter such a person, and they asked to be referred to as such, I'd say "Alrighty then, fill your boots". It's really not any skin off my nose.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Honestly the way you go on about it, your side complaints, and acting like you being personally affronted is somehow relevant to what level of acceptance an entire group deserves, I would bet it was probably your subsequent reaction people didn't like.

If you get it wrong just switch and don't go ranting about "How could I have known?!" It's not like they killed you for it or something.

Also if someone saying mean words at you supposedly makes you dislike all trans people then I really suspect you're just looking for an excuse

 

[Politrukk]

Honestly the way you go on about it, your side complaints, and acting like you being personally affronted is somehow relevant to what level of acceptance an entire group deserves, I would bet it was probably your subsequent reaction people didn't like.

If you get it wrong just switch and don't go ranting about "How could I have known?!" It's not like they killed you for it or something.

Also if someone saying mean words at you supposedly makes you dislike all trans people then I really suspect you're just looking for an excuse

I never said that.

What I said is that I dislike the non-binary concept.

I'm wholly acceptive of transexuals,homesexuality the entire thing.

These new "non binary" genders are just strange to me and I have trouble accepting them, when people then go on the offensive like that against you that doesn't make one more open.

Did I hurt your feelings or something?

This going straight for the throat is what I meant and look you're doing it yourself.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

But does an accidental misgender, a very logical one to my opinion in this case qualify for a torrent of slurs and shaming?

Honestly in this incident the person just threw off every intent of conversation because I had said "she", they did not look anything else then a she.

When it comes to misgendering, it's not something that that happens just occasionally to non-binary folk, it's something that happens constantly, especially to gender-fluid, genderqueer, and agender/genderneutral folk. It's sort of like this:

Spoiler: This comic sums it up nicely

 

[Politrukk]

Just call people what they want to be called, even if you don't agree with them. No need to be rude.

Before they even explained to me what they wanted to be called they went into a rage about what I should call them and how dare I misidentify their gender.


Honestly if it weren't so shady I'd post an image of the person in question to illustrate my point further.



If I could have seen or even smelled from them that they were genderqueer(or whatever their preference is) I could have done something about it beforehand.

Normally people who claim "no-gender" or "both" shift their appearance somewhat to express this.

I can not and nor can you sir/madam identify someone who genuinely looks like a young woman in all the senses by a different gender from the get-go, what reason would you have for that or would I?

Even if the person in question actually had a penis I would have still said woman from that appearance and there's nothing wrong with crossdressing or surgery to suit how you feel/identify as a person.

 

[Politrukk]

But does an accidental misgender, a very logical one to my opinion in this case qualify for a torrent of slurs and shaming?

Honestly in this incident the person just threw off every intent of conversation because I had said "she", they did not look anything else then a she.

When it comes to misgendering, it's not something that that happens just occasionally to non-binary folk, it's something that happens constantly, especially to gender-fluid, genderqueer, and agender/genderneutral folk. It's sort of like this:

Spoiler: This comic sums it up nicely

A person other than a cat (but even a cat) has physical and aesthetical markers that show their sex.

or like the folks these days like to call it "sex assigned by doctor at birth".

Before you open your mouth how am I supposed to know that you're not a woman (or a man who wants to look like a woman) when you're wearing makeup, have breasts and a full female figure?

Edit: are you implying that these people can always freely take offence to everything?

In that case I would say the "check your privilege" phrase might apply to these people very well.

 

[Something Amyss]

Honestly the way you go on about it, your side complaints, and acting like you being personally affronted is somehow relevant to what level of acceptance an entire group deserves, I would bet it was probably your subsequent reaction people didn't like.

If you get it wrong just switch and don't go ranting about "How could I have known?!" It's not like they killed you for it or something.

Also if someone saying mean words at you supposedly makes you dislike all trans people then I really suspect you're just looking for an excuse

Not to mention it comes off as the mild inconvenience of courtesy being somehow a huge affront.

Hey, didn't we just have this conversation?

What I said is that I dislike the non-binary concept.

accept that this sounds like "I dislike the gay concept" or "I dislike the trans concept."

I'm wholly acceptive of transexuals,homesexuality the entire thing.

Bad news, then, non-binary is part of the trans umbrella. You're clearly not accepting of the whole.

These new "non binary" genders are just strange to me and I have trouble accepting them, when people then go on the offensive like that against you that doesn't make one more open.

When your allegiance is conditional, it rarely is a positive sign. If you're legitimately more concerned with your feelings than supporting a group, they're probably better off.

But it doesn't sound like you were very open in the first place, so assuming that someone actually did go on the offensive, I'm not sure they lost anything in the process. But beyond that, I've got a little bit of experience with what it takes for a trans person to be considered hostile. It's not much and not unreasonable. Experience teaches me that most of the offense is inferred.

Did I hurt your feelings or something?

This going straight for the throat is what I meant and look you're doing it yourself.

Case in point. SR didn't offer a horribly aggressive response, but in questioning you and your conduct he is "going for the throat." Even as you indicate "hurt feelings" are the root. Even as you threw in a Tumblr response on the page. Part of me really wants to believe this is parody.

 

[Something Amyss]

A person other than a cat (but even a cat) has physical and aesthetical markers that show their sex.

Hey, same's true of the transexals you claim to accept. Same argument's used. Why is it different here?