Poll: Good or Evil?

[Duck Sandwich]

If you're like the overwhelming majority of people, you said "Sure, it's for the greater good" to the first question and "Uugh! No way!" to the second. But the outcome is virtually identical. Not throwing the man unwillingly to his death in the second scenario is against the greater good.

In the second situation, I'd say throwing the fat man is the right choice, but I can't say that I'd actually do it. I'd most likely hesitate until it's too late.

Also, what do you do for the people who refuse to learn. I know many people in my family who had everything, a ticket to college, a loving family, the foundations for a good life, and they threw it away. Certain people just cannot be reached even if you give it to them on a silver platter.

People who refuse to learn should be given the big ol' FUCK YOU. They willingly hinder the collective good of the people to satisfy their own selfishness.

Its the choices we make, when we have no time to make them define who we are.

Nice Pure Pwnage Quote. In an ideal world, the only thing hindering reason would be time, as some people may hesitate to do the right thing, especially in a morally "grey area."

Interesting note: Have you ever lost a good or evil point in a game like Jade empire or KOTOR simply because you disagreed with the developers on what was good or what was evil?

Oh yeah. I chose to fight the drunks in KOTOR 1 on Taris because I didn't like them talking smack. In KOTOR 2, I did a Genoharadan mission where I killed some extremist dude before he could appear in court, because if he was allowed to talk, he would spur on some more extremists to do...extreme terrorist stuff. An intriguing conversation on Dantooine went something like this.

Some *****: Get out of here, you weak pathetic good for nothing fool.
Captain Kickass: Shut up fool. You're the one who is weak and pathetic.
*****: You suck.
Captain Kickass: No, YOU suck!
*****: You're the suckiest suck that ever sucked!
Captain Kickass: BWAHAHAHAHA! YOU ARE TEH WEAKSAUCE!!!!!1111 YOU ARE A LITTLE NOOB AND I R UBER LEET!
*****: Rawr, I'm-a gonna fight you now!

*Dark Side Points Gained*

 

[Easykill]

I've heard the train scenario before, but it's flawed in that most people just wouldn't think to throw the man off the cliff if they had a week to think of it, someone who'd think of doing that right away in that scenario follows a very twisted view of the greater good. Like Hitler. And what happens if the big man fights you off? Or you mess up the timing or aim? You just killed someone for nothing. And even cars cant stop a train.

 

[Blayze]

Surely you wouldn't actually be able to throw a man large enough to stop a train off the cliff.

 

[Dectilon]

"I strive for personal gain. I feel that if one devotes their life to serving others, that makes them a willing slave. The creed of altruism is one of slavery, but instead of forcing you with a whip, it forces you with threats of eternal damnation or exile."

A Sith! : D

"To me depending on the kindness of others is the worst sin a man can commit."

More so than murder and rape? : P

In a fantasy world I'd probably be the good guy, helping where possible. But in the real world, sure, I think I'd try to do the best for myself and vote forth a government that will make sure my taxes go to making my country a better place to live in for all (rather than trying to do it all myself) : )

"Oh yeah. I chose to fight the drunks in KOTOR 1 on Taris because I didn't like them talking smack."

But... killing someone for talking smack? : / 's a bit strong 'ennit?

 

[Easykill]

Sure, but this isn't by magic, like just saying you want everyone to be happy and it happening. You have to convince people to be happy, give them reasons to be happy. What you're capable of doing with constraints of morality will always be less then those without, or with lesser bonds. If you chose the happiness of others option, you're not going to get much use out of this power, although I'm sure you'd find some use for it.

I respect that choice, but I think it would take a willpower most people dont have to do nothing when you have this much power. Let's be honest here. I'm on your side, I just realized I wouldn't be for very long if it actually happened.

 

[Melty Blood]

I don't really care for the whole good and evil thing, as it's often just a half assed way for people to justify their actions or beliefs when there isn't any other good basis.

I usually can't stand it when someone I care about is upset, or someoe nearby is upset, and I'd say about myself that I'm very much a soft-hearted person. But honestly, I can't really have much sympathy for people I don't see, or when it seriously interfere's with my own dealings (I'd still feel bad about it). So I don't care about the staving children in Africa, if that makes me a bad person, then I'm a bad person.

 

[John Galt]

More so than murder and rape? : P

Ok fine, it's a close second, man, way to kill the mood. *goes off grumbling*

 

[Sylocat]

Here are two moral dilemmas:

There's a train with no brakes hurtling down a hill toward five trapped rail workers. You can hit a switch to divert the train onto a new track, but then it will kill one worker trapped on the other fork of the track. Do you hit the switch?

Ok.

Now, there's another train with no brakes hurtling down a hill toward five more trapped rail workers. You're standing on a cliff above the railway line, and the only way you can stop the train is to grab the man standing next to you and throw him in front of the train (he's an extremely heavy man, whose body will stop the train). Do you throw him screaming to his death?

...

If you're like the overwhelming majority of people, you said "Sure, it's for the greater good" to the first question and "Uugh! No way!" to the second. But the outcome is virtually identical. Not throwing the man unwillingly to his death in the second scenario is against the greater good.

I got these scenarios from a really interesting article on the NY Times website. [http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/13/magazine/13Psychology-t.html?ei=5070&en=d401354908b626b1&ex=1200805200&emc=eta1&pagewanted=all]

For me, the second situation is a moot point... if a man standing next to me weighs enough to stop a runaway train, my shoving him off a cliff is not an option. ^_^;

 

[John Galt]

What if he shoves you off a cliff just to be mean? All this time spent pondering moral quandries could have been better spent running away from the 4-ton jackass who wants to kill you.

 

[Blayze]

"I strive for personal gain. I feel that if one devotes their life to serving others, that makes them a willing slave. The creed of altruism is one of slavery, but instead of forcing you with a whip, it forces you with threats of eternal damnation or exile."

That's the thing, isn't it? I firmly believe that true altruism (Doing good for no reason whatsoever) cannot exist, because there's always the siren call of "If you do this, then you are a good person, and good people get cake at teatime, but only if you keep on being good. If you don't, you're a bad person, and bad people get knifed after supper."

There's always a reason why people do things for others, and it's that reason that keeps them chained to doing more things for others If there were no payoff... think about it.

Besides, I doubt any amount of flesh and bone could possibly stop a train in its tracks. It'd most likely carve straight through his massive corpse.

 

[John Galt]

Nice post, oddly enough I was thinking about that earlier today. The only reason people work for the good of others is because they feel good or feel they'll get a reward from it. No one does anything without the possibility of reward, be it a chemical rush or the prospect of divine favor.

 

[Snowman Drew]

Nice post, oddly enough I was thinking about that earlier today. The only reason people work for the good of others is because they feel good or feel they'll get a reward from it. No one does anything without the possibility of reward, be it a chemical rush or the prospect of divine favor.

This is EXACTLY what i think. =] If you help your friends when they need help, its either because you will feel bad if you don't or your life wouldn't be quite so nice without them. EVERYTHING we do is selfish.

 

[Easykill]

I pity you, Drew. I don't know who this Kate is, and I can't say I want to. Bad luck you do I guess, cause she's a *****.
But in response to your post, I disagree. I think the more you know a person, the more they are part of you I guess. This does hold with helping complete strangers, but helping a freind is like saving a part of you. Like attracts like normally with freinds. Helping someone who is similar to you can be just like helping yourself, providing it isn't something ridiculous like borrowing a tv or something. This also doesn't account for stuff like instinct, like maternal instincts, that dont let you think before you act.