Poll: Greed destroying passion.

[Raging Raven]

I find myself these days only purchasing stealth games or games with strong stealth elements,because I like to be forced to think and take my time,the stealth devs seem to put much more of their effort into creating a deeper game. I find every other genre (apart from pure survival horror like Silent Hill 1-3)extremely boring.I find the repetitive banality of action games so unbelievably pointless.It makes me depressed to see each of my once favorite franchises invested in the action oriented formula,in a (failed) attempt to appeal to EVERYBODY.Has greed infected the main market so much that it is all about profit and not developer passion,I remember watching an interview of the original Thief developers,they spoke with such enthusiasm,yet when I watch the interviews of the latest AAA title,all I can see is their desperation to get everyone to buy their game (chasing the lowest common denominator),rather than making themselves happy (creating the game of their dreams)I wish that gaming wasn't so mainstream,I want it to be shunned and deemed uncool so that only the intelligent are appealed to, then perhaps Call Of Doody,wouldn't be around anymore..

Sorry for the rant,I just finished Mark Of The Ninja and it reminded me that their are devs out there that still have passion.I wish that the greedy shareholders weren't messing everything up.

 

[Zontar]

I'd like to point out that greed within the industry is as old as the industry itself just by its very nature.

Now for passion, the devs will always be passionate about what they do. Why? Because for pretty much all of them, it's a labor of love. Simply put, outside of places like Valve devs make a lot less money with their talents then they would in other private sector jobs. When I say a lot, I mean 6 figure differences not being abnormal level. Devs do what they do because it's what they want, though most will eventually leave because the hours can be to demanding and if you're starting a family an easier job which also pays more is what you naturally levitate towards (in fact, game devs have one of the worst rates of burnout in the whole service sector).

But back on topic: companies will always be greedy, but the devs will tend to care about their work.

 

[Raging Raven]

Great reply very informative

 

[MysticSlayer]

I wish that gaming wasn't so mainstream,I want it to be shunned and deemed uncool so that only the intelligent are appealed to, then perhaps Call Of Doody,wouldn't be around anymore..

Speaking of greed...

Anyways, I'm not going to argue that there aren't situations where greed seems to have completely destroyed the passion for a game/series. Resident Evil and Dead Space are two obvious examples of this happening. Perhaps Visceral still had a lot of passion for Dead Space 3, but EA seemed to have a lot of negative influence on it.

Still, the greed card sometimes gets played too quickly. I can't imagine developers aren't playing the major franchises out there to some extent, and if they enjoy the experience, then it seems reasonable that it will influence their own product, and they are likely having some influence on the developers of the games they enjoy as well. Considering a vast majority of the time we have no clue if influences were due to the developer's passion for games or a publisher's greed, I at the very least give some benefit of the doubt to the developers. Sure, sometimes it is obviously a result a greed, and sometimes it is obviously a result of love for games in general. But most of the time, we have nothing more to go on than our feelings towards the game.

 

[stroopwafel]

Ultimately ofcourse games get made for their companies to make a profit. This doesn't exclude passion, care or genuine love for the medium from espescially the developers but must be considered from a business level. Ironically it often seems success from games made with obvious passion can be its own worst enemy, as success tend to raise the stakes for a game to sell. It's happened to Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, Dead Space and most every game series that went downhill in quality.

The more business considerations(game must have co-op/multiplayer, must appeal to lowest common denominator etc.) seep into actual game development the higher the chance passion from game developers will fade and the game will suck, turning it into an uninspired mess of design by checklist/committee. I think this is one of the main reasons so many games are alike, as people in executive positions of game companies(often with little to no affinity for videogames) tend to look at what is commercially succesful and want this emulated in their own IP's.

Companies need to make a profit, having an(admittedly small ) company myself I get that. However there needs to be some middle ground here, where some concessions are made yet developers can still make the game with the passion and freedom they want. This requires companies to be less risk-averse, but when shooter clones no longer cut it they'll have no other choice anyway. Just look how Squaresoft recovered after nearly going bankrupt. This industry is in desperate need of new ideas, new IPs and creative freedom.

One of my favorite developers is From Software who proves like no other you can make the game you want to make and people will buy it when it's good. It's surprisingly funny how the success of the Souls series puts the conservative, risk-averse, profit 'maximizing' design philosophies of corporations like EA and Activision to shame. It shows it's not all about sales figures, but about making good games as well.

 

[Raging Raven]

[/quote]Speaking of greed...[/quote] lol,but my greed is justified and doesn't hurt anyone.If the "dude bro morons" ridicule
gaming then they wouldn't be done wrong

 

[Exhuminator]

I'd say monetization is certainly doing a number on gaming lately:

http://www.gdconf.com/conference/monetization.html

 

[Ratties]

I agree with you about trying to make a game that appeals to everybody. It doesn't become it's own thing anymore. Saddens me that resident evil is doing this. Have a younger demographic that doesn't know any better and thinks resident evil started at 4(I have met several people that haven't played the older games. Is the older demographic that buys the games, secretly hoping they came to their senses. There is a ton of gamers that think that a franchise needs to change to keep up with the times, which is bullshit.

 

[Bertylicious]

I dunno if it is "greed" per se that is such a problem. I remember having a conversation with a lady who worked in conservation and was also something of an amateur folk music singer who wrote her own songs. Whilst she is a very gifted musician and performer, she had no interest in fame or money; her goal was to have fun times with her friends and to share feelings/thoughts with others.

She was no luddite either so I asked her if she would ever consider putting her music on the internet, to be distributed for free and so reach more people. I assumed this would be something she would be very keen on as she is a bit of a crunchy who has made a career out of emotionally guilting people into not tarmacing their front gardens. Her reply suprised me:

"No", she said, "my music is mine. It is for me and from me, an extension of myself. The idea of other people having or, even worse, stealing it is horrible."

Now I'm not a very creative person but I have participated in creating a couple of board/tabletop games over the years where my main interest was to create a fun game for me to experience. I see that as an echo of what my friend experienced, albeit a pale and more apathetic echo, I would imagine that may other creators feel the same way. Without "greed", without people who are prepared to commodify and distribute those ideas, they will not go anywhere.

There is nothing wrong with having an idea and not have it go anywhere, that is fine, but I'm damn sure that if it wasn't for those greedy people who distributed the ideas and games that I have had so much pleasure from over the years that I would never have experienced them.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

Yes and no. I think we have a tendency to look at older games back from before the era of gaming being a multi-billion dollar industry and say "man, they don't make classics like that anymore! Games today are so dumbed down and stupid and only care about money etc etc", but we often forget that for every one classic game that we still talk about to this day, there were hundreds of mediocre, forgettable, or downright bad games that were released alongside it. We simply don't remember them because, well, they were bad and/or forgettable.

Additionally, 'dumbing down' isn't always necessarily a bad thing. For example, "X-Com: Enemy Unknown" received a lot of flak for supposedly "dumbing down" the original, and while they were right in some parts, I thought it was a breath of fresh air that I didn't have to remind my supposedly elite Soldiers that they needed to remember to bring ammo into combat. Cutting out unnecessary micro-management is, to me, a way in which dumbing something down is actually a good thing.

 

[Lightknight]

Businesses are there to make money. Is the opportunity cost of making less popular games preventing companies from pursuing those less popular games? Sure. Is it greed? No. Not any more than you taking a more lucrative job when given the choice is greed. What's more is that there are several studios who produce something highly lucrative and THEN take the opportunity to make stuff they want. It's just like people. You win the lottery and THEN you spend time doing things you want to do.

Until then, we're all in the business of making money. Usually to make ourselves financially secure or better off. Greed to be rich rather than desiring money for the security it provides or the improved quality of life is where things start entering murky moral territory. Additionally, taking unethical actions to gain that money is also the dark side of greed. Businesses who try to squeeze money out of customers are also firmly in the negative greed territory.

It is an incorrect notion to think that desiring more money than less money is somehow evil. I'm not saying that you need to go full Ayn Rand philosophy here but it is wise to put some space between you and living in the streets or going hungry.

What's more is that you are ignoring what is making action games more lucrative. More people like them. Wouldn't this actually be more socially beneficial for companies to make products that the most people like? I understand that the games I like aren't going to be pumped out regularly because not as many people like them. Such is the nature of liking such a niche market.

 

[quakke]

I'd like to point out that greed within the industry is as old as the industry itself just by its very nature.

Now for passion, the devs will always be passionate about what they do. Why? Because for pretty much all of them, it's a labor of love. Simply put, outside of places like Valve devs make a lot less money with their talents then they would in other private sector jobs. When I say a lot, I mean 6 figure differences not being abnormal level. Devs do what they do because it's what they want, though most will eventually leave because the hours can be to demanding and if you're starting a family an easier job which also pays more is what you naturally levitate towards (in fact, game devs have one of the worst rates of burnout in the whole service sector).

But back on topic: companies will always be greedy, but the devs will tend to care about their work.

Well, i sure didn't find much at all greed in the nineties, and that's why the 90's and early 00's have the best games ever made. Those games were made just for having the love for games. They were made with true passion, because the goal was always to make the best possible game they can (which is complete opposite today). Forexample Id software who made the FPS genre with Wolfenstein 3D, DOOM and Quake, never made a game bad in those days because they never made anything sloppy. Id Software always had the passion like most of the companies did in the nineties. Heck, even the absolute evil nowadays, Activision, had really good games back in the day.

It's the greed that has ruined everything now, and CoD has been the leader and showing the way with this greed thing.

 

[Zontar]

I'd like to point out that greed within the industry is as old as the industry itself just by its very nature.

Now for passion, the devs will always be passionate about what they do. Why? Because for pretty much all of them, it's a labor of love. Simply put, outside of places like Valve devs make a lot less money with their talents then they would in other private sector jobs. When I say a lot, I mean 6 figure differences not being abnormal level. Devs do what they do because it's what they want, though most will eventually leave because the hours can be to demanding and if you're starting a family an easier job which also pays more is what you naturally levitate towards (in fact, game devs have one of the worst rates of burnout in the whole service sector).

But back on topic: companies will always be greedy, but the devs will tend to care about their work.

Well, i sure didn't find much at all greed in the nineties, and that's why the 90's and early 00's have the best games ever made. Those games were made just for having the love for games. They were made with true passion, because the goal was always to make the best possible game they can (which is complete opposite today). Forexample Id software who made the FPS genre with Wolfenstein 3D, DOOM and Quake, never made a game bad in those days because they never made anything sloppy. Id Software always had the passion like most of the companies did in the nineties. Heck, even the absolute evil nowadays, Activision, had really good games back in the day.

It's the greed that has ruined everything now, and CoD has been the leader and showing the way with this greed thing.

The problem with your comment is that there are plenty of examples of poorly made, money grabbing games from the 90s and early 2000s. You can see them on all consoles and for pc, we just tend to not have as much of a memory of them since unlike today the internet wasn't what it was and people didn't have the chance to complain about it like today.

 

[MrHide-Patten]

There's a fine line between being greedy and 'I want to sleep under a roof tonight and not my desk'. As much as we'd like to picture Video Game Developers as the "protagonists" from The Wolf of Wall street, I'm sure that only applies to the top guys. And it's the guy at the top with the best angle from which to throw his shit around.

 

[quakke]

I'd like to point out that greed within the industry is as old as the industry itself just by its very nature.

Now for passion, the devs will always be passionate about what they do. Why? Because for pretty much all of them, it's a labor of love. Simply put, outside of places like Valve devs make a lot less money with their talents then they would in other private sector jobs. When I say a lot, I mean 6 figure differences not being abnormal level. Devs do what they do because it's what they want, though most will eventually leave because the hours can be to demanding and if you're starting a family an easier job which also pays more is what you naturally levitate towards (in fact, game devs have one of the worst rates of burnout in the whole service sector).

But back on topic: companies will always be greedy, but the devs will tend to care about their work.

Well, i sure didn't find much at all greed in the nineties, and that's why the 90's and early 00's have the best games ever made. Those games were made just for having the love for games. They were made with true passion, because the goal was always to make the best possible game they can (which is complete opposite today). Forexample Id software who made the FPS genre with Wolfenstein 3D, DOOM and Quake, never made a game bad in those days because they never made anything sloppy. Id Software always had the passion like most of the companies did in the nineties. Heck, even the absolute evil nowadays, Activision, had really good games back in the day.

It's the greed that has ruined everything now, and CoD has been the leader and showing the way with this greed thing.

The problem with your comment is that there are plenty of examples of poorly made, money grabbing games from the 90s and early 2000s. You can see them on all consoles and for pc, we just tend to not have as much of a memory of them since unlike today the internet wasn't what it was and people didn't have the chance to complain about it like today.

No, actually it was perfect example, since as you can see, even Id Software now has pretty much died, since even the man himself, John Carmack has left Id Software, because they started to stagnate and they're greed forexample shows in Rage, their last game. How bad and shallow it is compared to even DOOM3.

Are you seriously trying to paint this modern industry to look as good as 90's? You have no idea what you are talking about. If the 90's was so horrible, then tell me how come it was full of innovation, challenging and fun games? Tell me why is that? I can tell you why it's like that.. because companies nowadays focus on ONLY the game selling well. These companies nowadays don't give a rats ass if the game is actually truly good, challenging, innovative and fun. No. They only care about it being so accessible enough that it gets some of those Call of Duty sales.

Ofcourse there maybe was some very small amount of greedy games on the side, but that's just it. It was one SIDE, and not on the center of focus like today. Not the mass amount of just "quick buck" games like today. Back then there was only few greedy games, because if there was more, then i wouldn't have enjoyed so many games in the past.
Today all you see is shallow, unfinished brainless games. And the internet has nothing to do with the fact that "i somehow wasn't aware of some greedy games", no. Because there wasn't nearly as much greed as today because you can just see it from the quality of the older games. The way most of these older games beat these modern games hands down due to having massive amount of variety, deep gameplay mechanics, non-buggy game etc etc..