Odgical said:
Dude. Not to be callous, but every day there are new 19 year old girls you can hit on. None of them are your friend's ex. I say, stop being all tunnel-vision and go ask out a different lass, eh? Women aren't that hard to find, it just feels like it sometimes, maybe, depending on who you are.
In fact, another advantage of going after a different girl, you can start right now! This moment! That's right, close your jaw, my good man, you're welcome. Now fly! Fly my glorious creation!
On a sidenote: if you're hoping a couple breaks up because they're really, obnoxiously happy together... that's not wrong either, right?
On of the hardest things to get people to understand is how much of a commodity people really are. If the OP knew this he wouldn't be in this dilemma: he wouldn't be wishing for a breakup to ask one of the parties out he would be too busy chasing other girls who are available. We have, through the media, been told that there is 'one' for everyone, and that 'one' could be in a relationship with someone else out of desperation, and that they will be happy when they break up and join with their 'one'.
Now, again, it isn't simply easy to accept, but also scary. After all, if people are commodities that makes
you a commodity too, and no more special (and less disposable) than the next guy. Ultimately, be it online or in a bar, we shop for our lovers, and we buy them in a store one way or another.
But I digress. The heart of the conversation is whether its alright to wish harm upon others for your benefit. Well, I should ask if schadenfreude is wrong - the literal joy in the misery of others? If you believe that one can't control how they feel therefore feeling a certain way can't be amoral. So, provided that the OP doesn't actively sabotage what I have reason to believe is a healthy relationship than an act of amorality isn't being committed.
Course, enough theory, to the practical.
Aramis Night said:
Just consider how you will feel when they break up, you ask her out, and she says no. Take a moment to think how you will feel then. Now instead of just you feeling miserable, it will be you and 2 other people miserable. That is the most likely scenario. The better case scenario would be you simply transferring your unhappiness onto someone else(the other guy). Is this really the best your morality allows you to aspire to? Transferring misery as long as it isn't to you? Are hopes really for this? If so then perhaps you should give up on your allusions of morality and just be honest with yourself about how you just want to spread misery and be a vulture.
This is an interesting sentiment, but before I agree with the conclusion, I think the premises could use some further analysis. If a breakup does not occur none of these will apply, it will be just the OP that is miserable.
However, if a breakup does occur, chances are the OP has two friends that are unhappy (he said that both are his friends). Now, if he does nothing than both people are guaranteed to stay his friends, and they both will eventually get over the breakup and either see other people or learn to be happy on their own. This scenario is the status quo: the only thing that has changed is the relationship between the two friends and outside of certain considerations on the OP's part (like not inviting these two to the same party for a while) their relationship with the OP hasn't changed.
If he asks the girl out, he will get one of two possibilities: one is a yes, and one is a no. If an immediate no than there is the possibility of the status quo being maintained, but there is the possibility of the girl being put off, as this could be seen as being emotionally preyed upon. The guy friend might not be too happy that the OP is going for his sloppy seconds either, or worse think that the OP was waiting for this moment to do what he has done. Course, time is a mitigating factor to this. If the OP asked immediately than yes, what Armis has foreseen would come true. However, if the OP waits long enough, the relationships could survive it.
On a yes, the question is would this sour the relationship with the guy? Again, time is a mitigating factor, where the longer one waits the less likely that the other guy will get jealous, and the relationship to him wouldn't last as a result of the tension that said jealousy would bring. However, this is status quo, only that the OP is jealous of the guy, and so far pre-breakup the relationship is lasting (or does the other guy know how the OP feels, or the girl for that matter?).
Still, either way there is a good chance of losing the guy as a friend. This would be when the OP judges how important his relationship to the guy is before going on ahead. If important, than at least talk to him first about it if the OP wants to go ahead anyways. Yes it might sound like asking permission to date his sister, but the OP can get his reaction to the preposition and be able to gauge how 'over it' he is to mitigate any tension that would come about.
Even then there is risk with a yes of losing the girl. Again, the OP can mitigate risk by waiting a bit to ensure that he isn't simply going to be a rebound boyfriend. After all, there is a risk of the relationship going south and losing the girl entirely. Amiable breakups don't always happen, where one can at least salvage a romantic relationship and make a platonic friendship out of it, and it happens: relationships are complex in their nature and have cycles, peaks, and valleys. Still, having sex with a friend changes everything, so the OP shouldn't think that they can get back to the status quo even if a failed courtship can go back to friends.
So, is the OP a misery-spreading vulture? There is that possibility, though the thought that he is wrestling with this means that there is some hope for him to do the right thing when the time comes. Still, if they do break up and he still wants to date the girl, Armis, there are things he can do to mitigate whatever misery there is, with the easiest of them being simply waiting for them to cool down before going for it. Course, I don't know how good of a friend he is to them, so there would be some value judgments to determine if the risk is worth the reward.
Course, none of this might come into play at all. Its only in the event of a breakup that might never be. Even with the logic put forth, the best thing the OP could do for himself would be to go shopping: North America is about 52% female, and is 60% female in colleges and universities so they're not exactly scarce. If the awkard type there are services online that can help. Or just stow in it: 'thou shall not convent thy neighbour's wife' is practical advice even in an age when women aren't chattel anymore.
