Poll: How powerful would you like Force users to be in the upcoming Star Wars movies?
- Thread starter Bob_McMillan
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The main balancing act one always tries to deal with when using a term as ambiguous as "magic" or "the force" is the issue of what can be done with it. Hypothetically, all is possible through the force. However, I like the idea that the use of the force is limited through the lens of how one views the universe or through one's personality. Like when Yoda was all "size matters not." I think that the right way to go with this is the idea that while that is technically true, the order of magnitude one exists on changes perspective, and therefore what you can manipulate. A single person might live in a civilization that spans an entire galaxy, but a human mind can only really conceptualize things through the lens of experience. For example, while someone might be able to intellectually comprehend the Death Star in terms of numbers and scientific concepts, their ability to conceptualize in terms of presence and magnitude of implication might be limited Whereas a single person starfighter (say, the one Yoda lifted) is something small, familiar, and relatively easy to wrap one's mind around and thus manipulate.
The other trick is trying to make the Force a conceivable tool through which one can alter the course of galactic history without making someone a literal god. Which is why I think one of the few things Lucas got right with the original trilogy was making Palpatine first and foremost a political animal. This is a man with a personality suited for politics, an arena that can affect change on massive scales. The force amplifies and is informed in him by that ability, making him a threat while still being mortal. Another aspect I think could fill this role is the ability to see the future. If this ability were a little less ambiguous, it could show just how powerful the force can make someone without being omnipotent. An individual who can see and manipulate the future (or rather, all possible futures) is someone who could conceivably be the point upon which destiny turns without having to also make them someone who can blow up a planet with their mind.
The other trick is trying to make the Force a conceivable tool through which one can alter the course of galactic history without making someone a literal god. Which is why I think one of the few things Lucas got right with the original trilogy was making Palpatine first and foremost a political animal. This is a man with a personality suited for politics, an arena that can affect change on massive scales. The force amplifies and is informed in him by that ability, making him a threat while still being mortal. Another aspect I think could fill this role is the ability to see the future. If this ability were a little less ambiguous, it could show just how powerful the force can make someone without being omnipotent. An individual who can see and manipulate the future (or rather, all possible futures) is someone who could conceivably be the point upon which destiny turns without having to also make them someone who can blow up a planet with their mind.
I think this is the key to avoiding power creep. I'd rather see several fairly low key, different powers debuted over the course of the new movies, rather than taking old force powers and ramping them up each time so this time the object that they are mind-flinging is LARGER than the previous one, and the next time an object gets flung about it has to be even LARGER again to keep it entertaining, so you go from the cool, but sensibly limited power of Vader throwing a few pipes at Luke, to Count Dooku chucking giant rock columns at Anakin, to Starkiller smashing the largest spaceship in the fleet just with the power of his mind.K12 said:
For this reason I loved that pretty much the first power we see in The Force Awakens was freezing the blaster bolt in mid air, Matrix style. It's something we've never seen before, but it's still a fairly muted power (1 bolt, from 1 gun, being shot head on)
It would be nice if in future movies they didn't fall into the trap of 1 upping that move until it becomes stupidly overpowered and we have jedi freezing entire Imperial Fleet Barrages, but instead I'd like to see them leave it at that, and move on to introducing other feats, like using the force to perform low level healing of other people's wounds, or causing a small pile of sticks to internally combust, and stuff like that.
I think a bit of variety is best. Most Force users being really agile, blaster deflecting, badasses that have limited telekinesis and persuasion. So basically what people generally see in the original movies and prequels. Rey and Kylo should be on this level.
Then, there being some Yoda level Force users who can move star ships and perform great feats of power. And it should require focus (even Star Killer had to focus to do that) and great effort. Abilities like Shatterpoint and Force Lightning (and even Force Choke) should only be usable by such people. So, Luke and Snoke should be on this level.
Then, there being some Yoda level Force users who can move star ships and perform great feats of power. And it should require focus (even Star Killer had to focus to do that) and great effort. Abilities like Shatterpoint and Force Lightning (and even Force Choke) should only be usable by such people. So, Luke and Snoke should be on this level.
-NOTE: I haven't seen The Force Awakens yet, and I'm pretending the prequels never existed, so take this with a grain of salt-
I like The Force as like... just a skill, an ordinary skill that most people don't focus on because of it's rare, unpredictable, and requires an enormous amount of training just to jump 3 inches higher (arguably an athletic skill) or powers of premonition that could be construed as logic or intuition. (there's a dude with a blaster in the corner, and he's going to shoot at your head as he ambushes you.)
It's rare, and powerful, but not enough to change a universe, galaxy, planet, or even a modest city by itself. Vader was a sith master, but even then he could only predict stuff better then average, throw boxes weighing ~20lb at a time, and choke one person by using his full concentration for like 15 seconds. Palpatine and Yoda were physically weak, completely helpless without the force.
I'd also like to see Jedi using weapons besides lightsabers, which Luke Vader and Palpatine all did. The Force was just means to an end for the Empire, the Death Star was their endgame. Luke often used blasters, explosives, spacecraft, Landspeeders, and fisticuffs. He opted to use a floating bicycle that shot lasers over swinging his beam sword around. Jedi pilots, marksmen (OR MARKSWOMEN OF ASIAN DESCENT), spies, or tacticians (yeah I know Leia's deal). Or explosives experts. Imagine a scene where a jedi disarms a large high-yield explosive with complicated counter-measures, alone. The only way they succeed is by thinking about the person who made it, and speculating what THEY would do to make a warhead impossible to move or transport.
Basically, use The Force (in the movies) as just "that extra push" that doesn't define the characters, just give them a mysterious and alien advantage. It's just a small component among all the blasters, bombs, missles, aircraft, spacecraft, cannons, AT-ATs, personal/political influence, and everything else that makes an inter-galactic war an actual war, and not just "whoever has the best Force powers wins."
The fact that Disney has their (purse)strings all over the new movies makes me wary of them. Wait- maybe *I* am a Jedi! Maybe I can see what lies beyond! Or maybe I'm just speculating on a very deliberate corporate move to try to collect all money that's ever existed. Maybe I'm wrong, even, and the new trilogy will be a collective 6 hour-long blowjob while caressing my balls and massaging my carapace. MAYBE.
I like The Force as like... just a skill, an ordinary skill that most people don't focus on because of it's rare, unpredictable, and requires an enormous amount of training just to jump 3 inches higher (arguably an athletic skill) or powers of premonition that could be construed as logic or intuition. (there's a dude with a blaster in the corner, and he's going to shoot at your head as he ambushes you.)
It's rare, and powerful, but not enough to change a universe, galaxy, planet, or even a modest city by itself. Vader was a sith master, but even then he could only predict stuff better then average, throw boxes weighing ~20lb at a time, and choke one person by using his full concentration for like 15 seconds. Palpatine and Yoda were physically weak, completely helpless without the force.
I'd also like to see Jedi using weapons besides lightsabers, which Luke Vader and Palpatine all did. The Force was just means to an end for the Empire, the Death Star was their endgame. Luke often used blasters, explosives, spacecraft, Landspeeders, and fisticuffs. He opted to use a floating bicycle that shot lasers over swinging his beam sword around. Jedi pilots, marksmen (OR MARKSWOMEN OF ASIAN DESCENT), spies, or tacticians (yeah I know Leia's deal). Or explosives experts. Imagine a scene where a jedi disarms a large high-yield explosive with complicated counter-measures, alone. The only way they succeed is by thinking about the person who made it, and speculating what THEY would do to make a warhead impossible to move or transport.
Basically, use The Force (in the movies) as just "that extra push" that doesn't define the characters, just give them a mysterious and alien advantage. It's just a small component among all the blasters, bombs, missles, aircraft, spacecraft, cannons, AT-ATs, personal/political influence, and everything else that makes an inter-galactic war an actual war, and not just "whoever has the best Force powers wins."
The fact that Disney has their (purse)strings all over the new movies makes me wary of them. Wait- maybe *I* am a Jedi! Maybe I can see what lies beyond! Or maybe I'm just speculating on a very deliberate corporate move to try to collect all money that's ever existed. Maybe I'm wrong, even, and the new trilogy will be a collective 6 hour-long blowjob while caressing my balls and massaging my carapace. MAYBE.