Poll: I want more of the good stuff

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Dubiousduke

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Jan 27, 2008
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I want less innovation and more of the things I like in a game.

A game gets great reviews, everybody likes it, and the developers get the idea to push the envelope with bigger enemies and better graphics and new menu systems. The game comes out, and it's a crock of crap. It's pretty but it lacks good features or depth. I think that if game makers make a game so diverse from the original, it ceases to be very good.

Take the splinter cell series. I love the splinter cell series. But the fourth one worried me somewhat with the appearance of more day missions and strange "sidequests". The next one that comes out will consist of nearly all day missions with none of the traditional Sam Fisher gear and this easy copy of Assassin's creed's "eagle vision". And what's more, Sam looks like a hobo in a hoodie that fights melee with cops in a city park.

This series is moving away from the pitch-black sneaky stabby action that attracted me to the original. I don't care if the sun looks incredibly realistic and Sam can pick up and throw any object around him and use it fluidly and it took eight months to get him to throw a chair "right", I want to get back to basics!

Of course that isn't the only series doing it, but it's my best example. There are games that, thankfully, have stayed true to their founding ideas and still never ceased to disappoint. In my opinion, Half Life is a great example.

Rainbow Six Vegas 2 is an example as well. I loved R6:vegas and it's 4 player online co-op and big servers and sizable singleplayer. It was SOLID. Now its back after just one year with in-game co-op joining and ways for people without Xbox live to raise their in-game rank. It's going to be solid too, because they just fixed what needed fixing. It'll be released and be great.

----------------------Nutshell!

Tell us about some of your favorite game series that strayed from what you played the game for in the first place. Agreeing that this stopping is a good thing is also acceptable.

Discuss!
 

WingedFortress

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Feb 5, 2008
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I think this is one of the biggest, and hardest challenge developers have to face. Like, what drew people to the game in the first place? Should the focus be on the current players, or should more people be drawn into the fold? Will the current players tolerate to much change?
Nintendo is a good example of this. In my eyes, they traded away alot of the classic tried and true formula's that attracted me to them in the first place in favour of the "casual gamer" or more specifically, people who dismissed games back in the early nineties. It lost them some fans, but they managed to gain alot more in the process.
Personally, I couldnt choose one side, and prefer to fence sit until I can cast my judgement on current games. Some games would be benefit from a little change of pace or change of scenery, whereas other's should never mess with the formula that endeared them to us in the first place.
 

Kompi

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Feb 18, 2008
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I'd agree with Thunderhorse - a series or franchise that never updates or changes becomes stagnant, releasing the same product with minor changes ever and ever. On the other hand, when you change things, there's always a risk that the end result isn't necessarily better.

While I defenately didn't think Splinter Cell: Double Agent was up to standards of its predecessors, it wasn't really the changes to the game model that caused it - I thought the base side missions and serving two sides added an interesting dynamic to a series that otherwise could teach a runway a thing or two about being linear. What I didn't like was how much they omitted in storytelling - the PC and 360 versions never even bother explaining why Sam has access to all his high-tech gadgetry (according to Wiki the other releases did) nor really explain much about what happened with Sarah's death or anything.

I realize I'm getting sidetracked, but I think this kindof illustrates both sides of the point: Change can be both good and bad. Change happens, however.

I've got plenty of examples for both sequels that became better, that became worse and that mixed both. I thought MechWarrior 3 was far more stylish than MechWarrior 4 (and the 3:rd's pulse lasers were just fun to use!) but the 4:th is far more fairly balanced mechanically. On the flip end, I consider Legacy of Kain: Defiance a great step up from Soul Reaver 2 in combat at the expense of puzzles. I actually prefered the controversial re-imagining of DooM with DooM 3 aswell, so it's rather subjective.


Some of the greatest, and worst, games I've played have been updates of or reinventions of older products. Without franchises occasionally being reinvented, I'd never gotten to enjoy Prince of Persia: Sands of Time or DooM 3. On a general scale, I'd have to say occasional reinventions are a good thing where stagnancy (is that a word?) is not. The actual end results can't really be judged on any level other than a case-to-case basis.
 

Easykill

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Sep 13, 2007
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I just hate it when a company betrays the people who liked the old game by completely changing the style of the game. I still haven't finished the second Prince of Persia, but I loved the first one.
 

Copter400

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Sep 14, 2007
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Well, too many new ideas crammed into the wrong place can totally screw up a series. Valve has gotten by all right because they only make slight changes and keep the story and action that hooks everyone in. Naughty Dog pretty much just made a completely different game when sequel time for Jak and Daxter came 'round.

They lose points, however, for ruining Crash Bandicoot by making one good game followed by, like, ten extremely mediocre ones.
 

end_boss

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Jan 4, 2008
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Fallout 2 is a great example of more of the same being a great thing.

Darksun: Wake of the Ravager, however, was inferior to Darksun: Shattered Lands because the changes they made were all for the worse. The gameplay was exactly the same, they just decided that they wanted the graphics to look like ass.

Quest for Glory 4: Shadows of Darkness had the exact same graphics as QFG3: Wages of War, but with a different location, art style, and atmosphere. That was good. The story was also dark, absorbing, and the characters were fun and intriguing. Then, for no good reason, they randomly decided to fuck up the combat system. Battles now consisted of graphics far worse than anything you'd find in QFG3, and adopted a side-scrolling Street Fighter-esque engine that does not suit the series in the slightest bit.

King's Quest V was a landmark for the Sierra adventure games. Games were evolving, and the text parser was flawed, and so Sierra's new point-and-click icon interface made the games more intuitive, and still able to maintain all the good things that fans loved about them to begin with.

The first Dune on the PC was a mix between an adventure game and a bit of a strategy game. Dune 2 took a completely different turn and defined the RTS genre that still fluorishes to this day.

I was a big fan and addict of Romance of the Three Kingdoms 2 and 3. But with Koei feeling pressured into constantly bringing something new to the table with each outing, what they might have gained by not being stale, they have lost by becoming overly complicated and convoluted.

I've seen new screenshots of Worms for the Wii, and it looks like they are sticking to the 2D format. Up until now, I have always favoured 2D, and condemned the attempts at 3D Worms. However, with the new game mechanics available to the Wii system's controls, I would think that now would have been the perfect time to finally bring Worms to the 3D world. Imagine pointing and aiming the direction of your weapons with the Wii-mote? Awesome!

Metroid Prime was also a huge leap forward. I, along with just about every Metroid fan alive, was horrified to hear that they were going into an FPS format, and the game received a lot of criticism for the decision, but they stuck to their guns and showed that they could pull it off. And they did. Boy, did they ever.
 

MikeyW

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Feb 21, 2008
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The Wonderboy games are a great example of how change can be a good thing. The first game is completely unrelated even in play style to future games, yet they all were great games.

On the flipside you have Sonic. What Sonic did to his developers recently I have no idea but it must've been one of the most heinous acts of depravity, most likely to their mothers, to make them treat him like that.
 

REDPill357

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Jan 5, 2008
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Unreal Tournament 99 was the best. Assault gamemode was missing in the tech demo that was 2003, and 2004 didn't have the flat-out chaos of the original. The vehicles ruined the game, by focusing on wide open terrain, not cramped corridors. UT was BUILT for cramped, close-quarters carnage. And the adrenaline system was also a waste.

No matter what anyone says, the original UT was the best.
 

super_smash_jesus

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Dec 11, 2007
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Easykill said:
I just hate it when a company betrays the people who liked the old game by completely changing the style of the game. I still haven't finished the second Prince of Persia, but I loved the first one.
Thats because the last boss is quite possibly the hardest thing in gaming history to complete.

I still don't understand any FPS game that comes out that doesn't support co-op missions...it's 2008, game developers should have no reason to not be able to connect to the masses and make a game that pleases almost everyone that plays it.
 

Nickolai

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Feb 22, 2008
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Resident Evil 4 was one hell of a departure from the series, and it won multiple Game of the Year awards. Again, Metroid Prime gave 2D the finger, and won vast praise.

Innovation isn't always a bad thing in my book.

But that "Innovative" save system in Dead Rising can fuck off and die for all I care.

When you do something innovative, then that is the facet of your game that you should be testing the living hell out of. Simple.
 

tiredinnuendo

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Jan 2, 2008
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super_smash_jesus said:
Easykill said:
I just hate it when a company betrays the people who liked the old game by completely changing the style of the game. I still haven't finished the second Prince of Persia, but I loved the first one.
Thats because the last boss is quite possibly the hardest thing in gaming history to complete.
I would think it's because of the story changes.

SoT was like being part of a glorious fairytale.
WW was like being part of a 14 year old goth's diary.

- J
 

Katana314

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Oct 4, 2007
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"Ubisoft. You know why you've been brought here."
"What? Where am I? Untie me! You don't know who you're fucking with."
"I was about to say the same thing."
"Huh?"
"When you joined the family, you made a commitment to the code of iron: Never betray the family."
"Oh...oh god! You guys are from-"
"The family of fans."
"NO! STOP! I'll never make a bad game again! I swear! I'll be loyal to the family!!!"
"The code of iron can never be broken." "It's a tough life, guv. Get used to it."
 

Cooper42

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Jan 17, 2008
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Lego Star Wars, the original trilogy is just a prime example of maintaining great gameplay, but enhancing it and making a much more rounded and full game.

As for screwing it up; DE IW?
Deus Ex Lite...

Yes, that's my PC fanboyism coming out - it's a prime example of a great PC game which was 'adapted' for console play.

Something the same with BioShock...

The problem is, it's not that a console game can't be as deep, complex and as long as PC games (Oblivion?). Games can be made more accessible (a criticism of most PC games I'll agree with), easier to play and more fun to use without this being at the expense of the expanse of the game, the depth of the gameplay or the quality of the visuals. Dumbing down games just shows a lack of imagination and innovation and rips of all gameplayers, PC or not