Poll: I want to change the Gamer reputation.

[GrumbleGrump]

So yeah. The damage has been done. By gamers. And it will continue to be done by gamers as long as nobody does anything.

And you seriously believe you can do it? Because you'll need numbers. Big numbers.

And no, I won't help.

 

[Something Amyss]

And no, I won't help.

I know you won't. And I really don't care that you're going to not only sandbag, but apparently gleefully so. I do find it weird that you complain about the bad reputation of gamers, but are so outspoken about doing nothing. That attitude is probably a bigger problem than Gamergate.

 

[GrumbleGrump]

And no, I won't help.

I know you won't. And I really don't care that you're going to not only sandbag, but apparently gleefully so. I do find it weird that you complain about the bad reputation of gamers, but are so outspoken about doing nothing. That attitude is probably a bigger problem than Gamergate.

Complained where exactly? You mean that one part when I said that people have already made up their minds? Because I don't really mind what people think of gamers. I think if they want to say that we're misogynists/racists/whateverists then we should let them. That way we'll know for sure they're idiots. If assholes want to harass/shout/whatever, let them. That way we know that they're fucking idiots.

You don't need to make a movement to prove that you're not an idiot. Just be yourself. We're not fucking gamers, we're people.

 

[Davroth]

I think it's a awful, awful. The simple fact that you're trying to create an analogous movement free of GG's corruption is futile. Nothing really stops trolls or idiots from joining it, thus poisoning it just like GG. Eventually you'll just end up like GamerGate 2: Game Gatier.

Sorry mang, but this shit won't fly.

That won't matter with this new announcement. A change of direction.

This is a completely different and independent creation seperate from Gamergate from this post on.
You guys can refresh to check edits to the rules. While this is open to gamergaters interested to support it, it's in itself an entirely different creation.

Thank you. Also, it'll only fail if we quit.

You really start to sound more like GamerGate by the day... I'm sorry, but now you added a part about how you don't engage in all kinds of illegal activities? I'm not entirely sure what that is supposed to accomplish other then cast a suspicious light on this whole undertaking from the getgo. This is basically like asking your future critics to rip you apart.

But it's also the essence of why you will have a hard time finding GamerGate supporters to support your new thing when it takes off. The only way for GamerGate to fail is if they quit. And you set this up in a way that even though if you don't explicitly say it, you certainly condemn GamerGate's alleged actions, and by that basically made it unwelcome for them. If that's your intention, then that is fine. I'm not sure it's a smart move.

 

[grassgremlin]

You really start to sound more like GamerGate by the day... I'm sorry, but now you added a part about how you don't engage in all kinds of illegal activities? I'm not entirely sure what that is supposed to accomplish other then cast a suspicious light on this whole undertaking from the getgo. This is basically like asking your future critics to rip you apart.

But it's also the essence of why you will have a hard time finding GamerGate supporters to support your new thing when it takes off. The only way for GamerGate to fail is if they quit. And you set this up in a way that even though if you don't explicitly say it, you certainly condemn GamerGate's alleged actions, and by that basically made it unwelcome for them. If that's your intention, then that is fine. I'm not sure it's a smart move.

A lot of people are shooting me the doom and gloom scenario. How do you think I should handle this?

 

[Pirate Of PC Master race]

Complained where exactly? You mean that one part when I said that people have already made up their minds? Because I don't really mind what people think of gamers. I think if they want to say that we're misogynists/racists/whateverists then we should let them. That way we'll know for sure they're idiots. If assholes want to harass/shout/whatever, let them. That way we know that they're fucking idiots.

You don't need to make a movement to prove that you're not an idiot. Just be yourself. We're not fucking gamers, we're people.

Though I agree with you, there is no need to be passive-aggressive.

Time will tell, eventually.

 

[Something Amyss]

Because I don't really mind what people think of gamers.

You're going to a great deal of trouble to point this out, even to the point of attributing things someone else said to me.

Now, it's possible you really don't care, but when someone keeps posting about not caring, I tend to think otherwise.

The only thing you've really demonstrated to me is that the tautology that self fulfilling prophecies are self defeating is tautological.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

Let's see some results, and you'll have my support. I dunno how well this will go down, but it'd be nice if it worked. At least by having leadership and an actual goal in mind do I see this going at least somewhat alright. If for the first little bit. If it stays afloat, great, keep it up and keep it together

 

[CaitSeith]

If you have figured out the way to keep the trolls and harassers from hijacking it, I would give it my support.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I voted "I rather avoid these issues", because I do. Though here I am commenting. How embarassing. Me, I champion gaming by gaming alone. To each his or her (gasp) own.

 

[maninahat]

I think they are laudable goals and I wish you all the best, but as far as I'm concerned, I'd like to think I am aiming for all those objectives without having to summarize my views with a hash tag. I've seen the dangers of throwing your lot in with a vaguely defined group on the internet, and I would rather speak for myself than let the collective reputation of that group do it for me.

 

[Drizzitdude]

I think they are laudable goals and I wish you all the best, but as far as I'm concerned, I'd like to think I am aiming for all those objectives without having to summarize my views with a hash tag. I've seen the dangers of throwing your lot in with a vaguely defined group on the internet, and I would rather speak for myself than let the collective reputation of that group do it for me.

This. Extremely well said. Everything starts off as a good idea, then it gets hijacked by trolls and kids who think calling in bomb threats is 'cool' I am staying out of it.

 

[small]

its a great idea what you are trying to achieve.

if things are going to change its not going to be with gamergate, purely because the people who see it as a negative will NEVER associate with it and you need something separate to be there for both sides to come together.

but to be honest ive never been keen on the hashtag thing, i get its how people tend to do things on the net but it does tend to be slacktavist where people think change will happen when they click a like button

 

[Zen Bard]

What we will not do.

1) Threaten or engage in violence, reveal personal information that might be used for threatening and/or illegal activity, or commit acts of cyber-vandalism intended to thwart the communication of others' views, towards anybody. Anyone who does engage in these acts does so in complete defiance of our mission, should not be considered a part of it, and does so despite our explicit disapproval.
2) Rally against social justice and feminism. This is about video games not political issues!

Honestly, if you can pull these two off...you will have already changed the reputation of The Gamer.

In your "What we will do" section I'd also add "Quit taking everything so damn seriously and celebrate what's fun in gaming."

 

[Vigormortis]

That's... wishful thinking. You certainly will make it clear, but will you be heard?
Will it stop someone from misusing your hashtag and then presenting it as a flaw of your movement?

Let me tell you something. During the winter protests in Russia the protesters have gathered more that a hundred thousand people and led them into the streets of Moscow. They have managed to pull out a peaceful protest. They have managed to track and neutralise provocators that were sent in to provoke the police and paint it as a violent protest.
They did everything for their voice to be heard.
Yet with plenty of lies and a big enough megaphone russian authorities that control the media have managed to convince people that there were less that a thousand people and they were all baby eating fascist terrorists hired by the USA.

Since there are organized people that control the press and people who have nothing but protest, the gamergame situation looks strikingly similar. I've seen maybe all the dirty tricks available in the recent years, and now I see them again.

So think well. Do you have a megaphone that's loud enough to clearly state your position? Is there someone that speaks louder that you and can twist your ideas and misrepresent them?
Do you have strong enough agenda that's hard to go against? Allies?
Politics... Ugh.

PS
Oh, yeah. I've seen the separate hashtag trick in action also.

I was going to bring up the same point.

This is one of the primary reasons I try to keep myself separated from movements and ideologies. I may agree with the core tenants of an ideology, but I avoid making myself a part of that ideology.

It's far too easy to taint an ideology. It's much, much harder to taint an ideal. That's why, when asked, I tell people what I stand for, not who I stand with.

Still, best of luck to the OP. Any place offering a forum for open discussion is a good thing in my book.

What we will not do.

2) Rally against social justice and feminism. This is about video games not political issues!

While I agree it's ill-advised to rally against such ideologies, I must take issue with the latter point.

Some of the topics you're seeking to provide open discussion for are, by their very nature, political. And even those that are not have been forever marred by the specter of 'politicism', for better or worse.

I do believe there are many apolitical topics to discuss, but don't delude yourself into thinking politics will never worm their way into your forum of discussion.

Sadly, it's just how the world is today.

That said:

A lot of people are shooting me the doom and gloom scenario. How do you think I should handle this?

Take heed of their advice, to a degree, as it can offer insights into aspects of your endeavor you'd not considered. However, don't take their negativity to heart. The possibility for failure shouldn't be reason enough not to try.

Best of luck to you. It's a shame I have to say this, but I think you may need all the luck you can get.

 

[Darkmantle]

The funny part of this to me, is that my read of the situation is that we had this awful reputation foisted upon the gaming community by these so called activists. Gaming didn't have this reputation before they came in and starting pretending it was there to further their own agendas and get more clicks.

I am also amused that any efforts to defend myself from the assault on my reputation is just turned around on me and used to make me out to be a misogynist/racist/ist-of-the-week. So either I agree with everything they have to say or I'm a bigot, but what I am supposed to agree with, is them calling me a bigot, awesome.

So glad you don't want to deal with that issue.

 

[Little Gray]

The funny part of this to me, is that my read of the situation is that we had this awful reputation foisted upon the gaming community by these so called activists. Gaming didn't have this reputation before they came in and starting pretending it was there to further their own agendas and get more clicks.

I am also amused that any efforts to defend myself from the assault on my reputation is just turned around on me and used to make me out to be a misogynist/racist/ist-of-the-week. So either I agree with everything they have to say or I'm a bigot, but what I am supposed to agree with, is them calling me a bigot, awesome.

So glad you don't want to deal with that issue.

I am pretty sure they are not the reason that things like LoL and xbox live have such toxic reputations. That is because of gamers and only gamers.

 

[Darkmantle]

The funny part of this to me, is that my read of the situation is that we had this awful reputation foisted upon the gaming community by these so called activists. Gaming didn't have this reputation before they came in and starting pretending it was there to further their own agendas and get more clicks.

I am also amused that any efforts to defend myself from the assault on my reputation is just turned around on me and used to make me out to be a misogynist/racist/ist-of-the-week. So either I agree with everything they have to say or I'm a bigot, but what I am supposed to agree with, is them calling me a bigot, awesome.

So glad you don't want to deal with that issue.

I am pretty sure they are not the reason that things like LoL and xbox live have such toxic reputations. That is because of gamers and only gamers.

I thought the reason xbox live had such a shitty reputation was because of 12-15 year olds that infest the multiplayer of M rated games on the xbox. Which really should lead to a conversation about responsible parenting, awareness and use of the rating systems, perhaps store policies, but no, it's been hijacked, now we have to talk about "misogyny". Let me tell ya, if we don't solve the actual root issues at play here, it won't improve, and changing the topic to something completely unrelated isn't going to do that.

Secondly, here I thought that LoL was usually an outstanding example of a company going out of their way to reduce harassment. But then again, if someone is not familiar with the origins of the MOBA, and more specifically DOTA, game types, they might not have the context to see how far Riot has come in that field. But instead of discussion the steps Riot took, and the tools they used, now we have to ask if the way Ahri is dressed is too slutty.


Do you see my point here?

 

[Kameburger]

To be honest I think there is a fringe group of trolls out there that gets a kick out of seriously harassing and derailing the GG movement, and I don't know if this will help.

They've been able to harass and do what they want in the name of Gamergate and Anti-Gamergate alike, and they've been able to do so with while simultaneously being able to hide what they do and blame whatever side. It's a perfect crime for people who troll really as I'm sure anyone (like I am sure I will for saying this) who brings it up gets slammed back into their place for trying to deviate from the narrative of the two parties in play.

So the second someone attacks Sarkeesian in the name of this group, which is the easiest way to spark the proverbial powder keg in the better half of the internet we occupy. So yeah maybe the best thing to do would be to make a web page, and also make an appeal to the larger members from both sides. Make this a real world thing. I think there was this fascinating episode about Dragon con that was posted about TB where the opening line was something about how when he went to dragon con, no one was talking about gamergate and anyone who did, did so reluctantly, and everyone had an amazing time. But I think my point is with this is that if you want to do something with this, make it real. Make it tangible. It's a hard goal, but the truth is you need to get to a point where people are not able to hid behind their avatar.