I got my degree in forensic psychology, which is an area you absolutely need a degree in. Trouble is, right now it's extremely difficult to get a job. I get that, the world economy's in the take right now. But given that, and how much debt I managed to puck up earning that degree, I can honestly say I feel no satisfaction or reward picking that degree up.Wolverine18 said:
Poll: Is higher education worth it?
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See, that would make sense. Where are you located? What I did was enroll in a four year school that allowed me to get my undergrad in forensic psych. The clinical stuff is the basis of an entire different branch and has literally nothing to do with the field I went into. It's pretty damn specialized, so expanding into counselling just isn't possible since I have absolutely no training in it. Forensic psychologists aren't approved by the same board as the clinicians, you see. The plan right now is to wait it out and hope something pans out.Wolverine18 said:
In the UK i would say definitely considering you repay next to nothing each month once your earning over 15k, and the majority of starting salary's for graduates (in my field at least) is 25-30k.
It is definitely that bad in the states.Spinozaad said:
I graduated almost two years ago with a B.S. in English: Rhetoric and Writing Emphasis. I still haven't found a job that I can apply what I learned, nor have I been able to get a job period because I have the black mark on my record that I haven't worked for six years since I started college.
Every job that I have looked at in my area and state(for family reasons I can't move far away) that deals with what I know and have learned, publishing companies, newspapers that are still doing okay, and the like, aren't hiring for entry level style positions. It is all manager type work that one has to have experience being a manager, and of course it has the typical line these days, must have 3 to 5 years of work experience.
Let me tell you what I think about that line. I think it is a load of bull-crap. Because I have found a few places that were hired for entry level style position, very simple starting work, and even those jobs had the tag line near the bottom, people that don't have 3 to 5 years of experience in this type of job need not apply.
Seriously, employers in the US truly don't care about education unless it is the last part of the hiring process and they are trying to decide who to hire out of equally work experienced people.
Somebody here also mentioned vocational type degrees are better. That really isn't entirely true. A friend of mine has an engineering degree, but has only been able to find one job, working at a factory tending to and repairing the machinery. He ended up getting laid off anyway because the factory couldn't procure a deal with another company that supplied them with the items needed to keep making the product being made. Every other place he has applied has told him that he doesn't have enough experience. He has mentioned to employers that he easily knows how to do things and they wouldn't have to train him because of his education, and several of the employers he said that to told him that his college education doesn't count as experience so his education doesn't matter.
So, he's actually been able to find a job working as a cashier at a grocery store for eight something an hour, which of course doesn't compare to his fourteen dollars an hour he made at that one factory. Though the thing is, he didn't get his job at the grocery store because of his past experience from working retail at other stores. He got it because a friend he knew that was leaving that job for another, recommended him to the boss, and that is what got him the job.
Really, the only way to get work these days in my area and state, is if you have already worked in your field for 3 to 5 years, have a friend that can recommend you, or you get incredibly lucky when an employer is so desperate to hire people that they throw all their stupid preconceived notions about hiring out the window.
Really, I say only go for higher education if you know you somehow have a job lined up, or that you already are working somewhere that is stable while you go to college. Otherwise wait and get miraculously hired by a retail store and save up money so you can pay your own way, and then go to college, while somehow keeping your job and wade through all the bull-crap to get the job you want.
So don't believe the crap that college representatives tell you, don't believe them when they say they've talked to employers in your area and those employers say that they want well rounded educated people in all fields. If you do, you will end up graduating and finding out that around 98% of employers don't give two shits about higher education. It is all a vicious circle, if don't have experience you can't get hired and you can't get experience because you can't get hired because you don't have experience.
In England going to university pretty much just amounts to moving away from your parents, going out on the swill every night, attending just enough lessons to make sure you get a decent pass and then getting a better job than your mates when it's all over. Worth it.
Depends on the field, even then you need a bit of ingenuity and a willingness to adapt.
I'm finishing up a Batchelors in Maths and a Masters in Chemistry, even then it looks like the only way to get a job is to get a PhD. In Germany.
I'm finishing up a Batchelors in Maths and a Masters in Chemistry, even then it looks like the only way to get a job is to get a PhD. In Germany.
I've voted yes, but I think it depends on what your career aspects are. If you want to be a doctor, yes you need to go to university, but for a number of careers now you can find apprenticeships and training schemes (in the UK) that are open to school leavers and train you as you work in your selected field. I have a degree, I don't regret it for a second but I have seen some interesting courses that I'd have liked to have applied for but they weren't open to degree holders!
If you are leaving school, I'd suggest thinking carefully about what it is you want to do and then looking at all of the options. A degree may be necessary or may be your desired next step, or you may find an apprenticeship suits you more. You could always do a degree afterwards if you change your mind.
If you are leaving school, I'd suggest thinking carefully about what it is you want to do and then looking at all of the options. A degree may be necessary or may be your desired next step, or you may find an apprenticeship suits you more. You could always do a degree afterwards if you change your mind.
I'm gonna say yes but I am halfway through a physics degree. Generally, I think if you want to work in sciences/engineering/computer science kinda areas, then yeah, you NEED a degree. Simple as. History/Politics degrees are normally quite handy as well for the skills that you learn.
Arts degrees and the like have always seemed like a waste of money to me though, so I'd say they aren't worth it.
Arts degrees and the like have always seemed like a waste of money to me though, so I'd say they aren't worth it.
Background: I went to a reasonably high-level engineering university. So there are my biases and my credentials for the topic, take them as you will.
I'd say, a college education is absolutely worth it in one of the following cases:
- You intend to go into STEM (science technology engineering math) fields. At this point, it's mandatory. BUT -- don't go to a crappy school for this. If you're going to go STEM, I say go all the way, and pony up for loans for the best place that will take you. Right now, people from mediocre schools are being looked over in the engineering world for people who either have higher degrees or have a bachelor's from somewhere really respected. I know that ~$200K for four years at Caltech looks like the world's worst sack of debt, but you will have *the* best chance at a job that you could ever have, once you're done. In this economy, that matters. Also, note that if you want a job in the sciences (physics, math, etc.), you want a grad degree, while engineering only mandates a bachelor's.
- You want to do research. (In which case, you actually need to get a master's or, more likely, a Ph.D.)
- You want to teach. Seriously, go learn your subject, and don't be one of those sucky teachers that just kind of fills in at crappy schools. We need more teachers; go be a quality one. However, you don't need a Ph.D. to teach, so you don't need to suffer crazy grad school for this.
- You want to be a doctor, lawyer or some other very regimented career. Medical school is a very strict process, for example. It mandates higher education.
Here is when you don't necessarily need or want to go to college:
- You want to be a writer or some such thing that tends to be a hobby unless people become successful. At this point, your college degree is using up tons of money, and you're better off training for a day job that will fund you until you produce something that will sell. Remember, you *can* be an artist without going to art school, and you *can* write without classes, and you *can* go into fashion without any kind of education in the matter. Humanities I'd say are easier to self-study than science, and science is possibly more rigorous in mandating a college education. (If you're one of those prodigies that has already built a giant robot, you might -- *might* -- be able to skip this. But I don't think so. People like that tend to use that to get into college, not get a job.)
- You don't know what you want to do, but it's ambiguously in the humanities. Again, go find a trade to learn or some such thing, because the odds of anyone particularly valuing a bachelor's degree in humanities right now, are pretty low. The reason isn't because they suck; the reason is because *everyone has one.* Right now, you're better off specializing in something not everyone is trying to do at the same time, which has too few job slots and too many applicants.
Also, last note, don't overlook trades! At least in America, we tend to have big egos and see ourselves as "too good" for blue-collar jobs, but just try bringing that up when you need an electrician or a plumber or a welder. There was an entire power plant that couldn't be built because there weren't enough welders. This doesn't require HUGE EXPENSIVE EDUCATION, but it's a specialized field that will always be in use.
I'd say, a college education is absolutely worth it in one of the following cases:
- You intend to go into STEM (science technology engineering math) fields. At this point, it's mandatory. BUT -- don't go to a crappy school for this. If you're going to go STEM, I say go all the way, and pony up for loans for the best place that will take you. Right now, people from mediocre schools are being looked over in the engineering world for people who either have higher degrees or have a bachelor's from somewhere really respected. I know that ~$200K for four years at Caltech looks like the world's worst sack of debt, but you will have *the* best chance at a job that you could ever have, once you're done. In this economy, that matters. Also, note that if you want a job in the sciences (physics, math, etc.), you want a grad degree, while engineering only mandates a bachelor's.
- You want to do research. (In which case, you actually need to get a master's or, more likely, a Ph.D.)
- You want to teach. Seriously, go learn your subject, and don't be one of those sucky teachers that just kind of fills in at crappy schools. We need more teachers; go be a quality one. However, you don't need a Ph.D. to teach, so you don't need to suffer crazy grad school for this.
- You want to be a doctor, lawyer or some other very regimented career. Medical school is a very strict process, for example. It mandates higher education.
Here is when you don't necessarily need or want to go to college:
- You want to be a writer or some such thing that tends to be a hobby unless people become successful. At this point, your college degree is using up tons of money, and you're better off training for a day job that will fund you until you produce something that will sell. Remember, you *can* be an artist without going to art school, and you *can* write without classes, and you *can* go into fashion without any kind of education in the matter. Humanities I'd say are easier to self-study than science, and science is possibly more rigorous in mandating a college education. (If you're one of those prodigies that has already built a giant robot, you might -- *might* -- be able to skip this. But I don't think so. People like that tend to use that to get into college, not get a job.)
- You don't know what you want to do, but it's ambiguously in the humanities. Again, go find a trade to learn or some such thing, because the odds of anyone particularly valuing a bachelor's degree in humanities right now, are pretty low. The reason isn't because they suck; the reason is because *everyone has one.* Right now, you're better off specializing in something not everyone is trying to do at the same time, which has too few job slots and too many applicants.
Also, last note, don't overlook trades! At least in America, we tend to have big egos and see ourselves as "too good" for blue-collar jobs, but just try bringing that up when you need an electrician or a plumber or a welder. There was an entire power plant that couldn't be built because there weren't enough welders. This doesn't require HUGE EXPENSIVE EDUCATION, but it's a specialized field that will always be in use.
You Europeans get all the money! Us Canadians STILL have to put up with stupid overly bloated tuition fees!
Also, I hope it's worth it. Seeing that I'm starting in about 1-2 weeks.
Also, I hope it's worth it. Seeing that I'm starting in about 1-2 weeks.
First off, I'll say I don't have a college degree. So this post may be a little more slanted towards those who don't, but I think the point still stands. Schools and the way they teach are not for everyone.
In the US, I'm not sure it is like this elsewhere, but even for entry level type clerical positions a good portion of ads will say degree required. These are for jobs that you don't need a whit of a college education for. I've even seen data entry jobs require a degree, how screwy is that. Everything about them can be taught on the job or the person should have had in high school. The problem is you get a lot of good people being locked out of jobs, who could easily do the job, but for that piece of paper. There are plenty of people who have gained the experience of doing a particular position by learning on their own. I'm sure many of you have someone you go to to fix your computer (whether hardware or software), if that isn't yourself, and I would bet that a lot of those people learned those skills on their own.
I even had this situation myself about 10 years ago. I went in for a position and this is what the manager had said, I still remember; "I would hire you on the spot, you are actually over qualified, but as of now I can't because you don't have the degree." Afterward he said he tried to work on HR, but they wouldn't budge on the degree.
Basically, the point I'm trying (probably badly) to make is that in the US, a bachelor's degree is almost required now. What the high school diploma used to be, the bachelor's degree is now. It doesn't matter what the degree is in, just that you have that piece of paper. And for more specialized areas (engineering, other science, math, etc) which don't have their own school's (law, medical), although they still still probably apply as well, Master's are probably the minimum there.
In the US, I'm not sure it is like this elsewhere, but even for entry level type clerical positions a good portion of ads will say degree required. These are for jobs that you don't need a whit of a college education for. I've even seen data entry jobs require a degree, how screwy is that. Everything about them can be taught on the job or the person should have had in high school. The problem is you get a lot of good people being locked out of jobs, who could easily do the job, but for that piece of paper. There are plenty of people who have gained the experience of doing a particular position by learning on their own. I'm sure many of you have someone you go to to fix your computer (whether hardware or software), if that isn't yourself, and I would bet that a lot of those people learned those skills on their own.
I even had this situation myself about 10 years ago. I went in for a position and this is what the manager had said, I still remember; "I would hire you on the spot, you are actually over qualified, but as of now I can't because you don't have the degree." Afterward he said he tried to work on HR, but they wouldn't budge on the degree.
Basically, the point I'm trying (probably badly) to make is that in the US, a bachelor's degree is almost required now. What the high school diploma used to be, the bachelor's degree is now. It doesn't matter what the degree is in, just that you have that piece of paper. And for more specialized areas (engineering, other science, math, etc) which don't have their own school's (law, medical), although they still still probably apply as well, Master's are probably the minimum there.