Poll: Is it piracy when you already own the material?

[DemonicVixen]

It's piracy either way, but it's a question of whether or not it's BAD piracy. I think Extra Credits hit the nail on the head. If you CAN'T get it anymore (like, for instance, I bet you'd be hard pressed to find a functional OOT copy lying around), then pirate away.

Your initial question is harder, but I think if you paid for it, pirating it is just like digitally backing it up, like games on Steam. I don't think it should be shared with friends, though.

What about if you CAN get something, but it costs FAR to much (such as something very old, so people sell it for triple or more of the original price eg an old Video/DVD originally worth £12.99, so because you cant get it from stores anymore, they sell it for £50.99). If you can download that for free, why not?

I've mentioned on piracy threads before, that yes, I do pirate. I download movies until I can buy the DVDs cheap (or if I cant find the DVD's without paying loads of money that i cant afford). I download software for college. I download the odd games to try them out before buying when I get the chance. I download music because I cant afford to buy CD's that have only 1 good song, or pay for the songs on a proper website because the ammount of songs i want to have, would mount up to £50-£100 worth of downloads.
I do also put the movies onto disk so that they dont clog up my computer and so that I can watch them on the big screen. Again, I dont sell the disks, or make copies, I just download, add to my disk folder and watch.
I'm a student living on benifits after my mum died. I'm entitled to some "fun" with movies or music or games, and I also NEED the software for college. Yes, I doubt in a court of law they would see it that way, but i take my chances and hope they see where i'm coming from.

snip

In the way your describing, as long as you delete what you downloaded when you return home and dont make copies of the download, I dont see any harm. However depending on where you are, be careful that their government laws are not too strict, else regardless of owning it already, you could face bad consequences if they found out (my cousin done something similar when we went abroad once. Thankfully they just wiped the content and let him go without any more word).

 

[Spade Lead]

snip

It's piracy either way, but it's a question of whether or not it's BAD piracy. I think Extra Credits hit the nail on the head. If you CAN'T get it anymore (like, for instance, I bet you'd be hard pressed to find a functional OOT copy lying around), then pirate away.

Your initial question is harder, but I think if you paid for it, pirating it is just like digitally backing it up, like games on Steam. I don't think it should be shared with friends, though.

Actually, no. The sites like LimeWire claim their intended use is for transferring of files between registered owners. Under that definition, I could download the ENTIRE Westside Connection "Terrorist Threats" album and it wouldn't be considered piracy because I already own a copy of the CD.

 

[ClassicJokester]

Well, I'd be careful, beacuase like its been said, it's piracy, but only really bad in encouraging others to pirate it. As long as you aren't seeding the material, you're on morally solid ground in my book.

...I bet you'd be hard pressed to find a functional OOT copy lying around...

I actually found (and bought) a (slightly used) copy of the freakin' GOLD CARTRIDGE in my local game store for $15. I was pretty excited about that day.

 

[warprincenataku]

Is it considered piracy? Yes.

Is it bad, that's what you should be asking. Buying a DVD for example gives you rights for 1 copy and usually 1 backup, anything more is considered breaking the law. So if you are asking your question technically, then I guess it would be considered piracy.

But hey, I live in another country and most of my stuff is back home. I do it all the time.

 

[Krantos]

Until they change the laws (which will never happen, btw) it's considered piracy if the makers say it is. The copyright holder has the right to dictate how their Intellectual Property can be utilized. Most would say what you did was piracy.

Some companies are more forward thinking than that, thankfully. They're rare, but you can find companies who allow purchasers almost complete freedom in how they enjoy the material. Example: Stardock allows all their customers who bought their games to install them on as many devices as they want, as long as they are the primary users. Also, by purchasing their game, you have the right to Download - for free - a new version if you lose your file or the CD gets damaged. Finally, Stardock games have NO DRM. Period.

They're still a vast minority, but their continued profits (despite Elemental's poor state at release) and sales give a good indication of how a company can remain profitable and still treat their customers well.

 

[Squeaky]

I think it not technically pirating if you can provide proof of purchase and the copy of the game (UK) admity my mates were talking about this and one knows a fair bit about law i as kinda drifting in and out listening to music.

 

[Shade184]

This is a very interesting point, thank you for bringing it up.

Technically it is piracy, but I think it's acceptable from a moral standpoint. Extra Credits put it pretty well - maybe you'd find it interesting to have a look at their recent video on piracy, if you haven't already.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

Haha, way to swing the "OMG pirates!" hammer so oft-used by this community back at us. Well played.

OT: You BUY a show or a game to respect the people who made it, imo. That's the base moral principle for paying for a service. And when you buy a video game or a tv show boxset, you ARE paying for the service, not for the product.

If that reasoning make any sense to you, then no, you shouldn't have to pay twice. Unless you want to show extra respect to the makers or something. So no, it is not "bad".

 

[klakkat]

For the first case, I would say that is definitely not piracy. Technically, you are allowed to make back-up copies of any material you own, provided you don't then share either the back-ups or the original.

For the second case, that is piracy. You would have to convince the other party to give you the copy of the game (or 'declare it's yours, and now they are just borrowing it') before it would be legal.

 

[Calbeck]

Misleading question, I'm afraid.

When you buy a product which can be copied, you are also buying (in most cases) the right to make copies yourself, for your own use. It does not give you the right to obtain copies someone else made.

This is why it's legal to rip songs from CDs you bought in order to put them on your WinAmp playlist or your iPod shuffle, but it's illegal the minute you provide one of those digital copies to a friend.

While it's idiotic, you could still be dragged into court over a copyright infringement case --- where at best, you would be forced to prove you actually owned a copy you had legally bought. And you still might be held liable for helping "facilitate" someone else's illegal pirating, depending on what court this all went down in.

 

[LiudvikasT]

It's still piracy, but as with all piracy it all depends on whether you can justify it to yourself. If you think it's ok, then I don't care what you download. But you would still be prosecuted in court if it comes to that.

 

[Weslebear]

I would say no, as long as it isn't shared and is only used by the person already in possesion of a copy.

 

[Da Chi]

I've often wondered this myself with my record collection. I own the vinyl, but I'd like to hear it on my ipod. So would it be wrong to limewire a song or two from that album so I can listen to them?
Sadly, I always come to the same conclusion; that it is still stealing, no-matter what format you have it in before. Having a paperback novel and entitling yourself to the hard-cover is wrong. Owning a crappy 8-track is not the same as a digital remastered copy. Having your favorite movie in DVD, but wanting the Blue-ray for free is absurd. Simple answer, if it is worth paying for once, you can buy it again if you need whatever it is in your life.

 

[Scout Tactical]

Actually, no. The sites like LimeWire claim their intended use is for transferring of files between registered owners. Under that definition, I could download the ENTIRE Westside Connection "Terrorist Threats" album and it wouldn't be considered piracy because I already own a copy of the CD.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at here, but I was making a philosophical point, not a 'steal whatever you can' point. My reasoning was simply, "If you bought something, you are entitled to it." This is more of an ethical or moral standpoint than it is a practical or realist one.

What about if you CAN get something, but it costs FAR to much (such as something very old, so people sell it for triple or more of the original price eg an old Video/DVD originally worth £12.99, so because you cant get it from stores anymore, they sell it for £50.99). If you can download that for free, why not?

It's piracy. I think my post made my stance on that pretty clear. I don't see how this would change my stance, especially with the phrase, "If you can download that for free, why not?" on the end. Prices or no, it is piracy, and it is unethical.

I've mentioned on piracy threads before, that yes, I do pirate. I download movies until I can buy the DVDs cheap (or if I cant find the DVD's without paying loads of money that i cant afford). I download software for college. I download the odd games to try them out before buying when I get the chance. I download music because I cant afford to buy CD's that have only 1 good song, or pay for the songs on a proper website because the ammount of songs i want to have, would mount up to £50-£100 worth of downloads.

You're part of the reason why media prices are so inflated. Due to people like you, artists have to jack up prices to turn the same profit. I'm not pointing an accusatory finger here, saying because of you we pay one more cent, or something. I'm saying that the Tragedy of the Commons takes effect, and when hundreds of thousands of people have your mindset, it causes inflation.

Incidentally, if you only want the one good song on an album, just buy that one song with a system like iTunes (.99USD, which is favorable on the pound). Perhaps the most condemning statement in your post is that with the "amount of songs you would want to have, it would mount up to 50-100 pounds". "Wanting" is far different from "needing". Take it from a guy who doesn't download music because he doesn't have a lot of money to spare.

I'm a student living on benifits after my mum died. I'm entitled to some "fun" with movies or music or games, and I also NEED the software for college. Yes, I doubt in a court of law they would see it that way, but i take my chances and hope they see where i'm coming from.

You're right, a court would never see it your way. You are not entitled to any "fun" (certainly not more than a hundred pounds worth for free). Ever heard of the "age of entitlement"? People think that they deserve things free. They're entitled to entertainment as a right, and they shouldn't have to pay for it. That's pretty absurd, if you ask me.

I actually found (and bought) a (slightly used) copy of the freakin' GOLD CARTRIDGE in my local game store for $15. I was pretty excited about that day.

Very cool, man! Glad you found the nice buy. The last time I heard about a story like this, it ended up with Ben drowning.

 

[Spade Lead]

Actually, no. The sites like LimeWire claim their intended use is for transferring of files between registered owners. Under that definition, I could download the ENTIRE Westside Connection "Terrorist Threats" album and it wouldn't be considered piracy because I already own a copy of the CD.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at here, but I was making a philosophical point, not a 'steal whatever you can' point. My reasoning was simply, "If you bought something, you are entitled to it." This is more of an ethical or moral standpoint than it is a practical or realist one.

What I was saying was that under the technical definitions of the terms of use of Limewire (yes, I actually read the terms of use for it), you aren't supposed to download material you don't own the rights to. If I download all six seasons of House M.D. onto my laptop, it is legal because I already paid for all six seasons on DVD. THAT was my point.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Pfffh ... no. I own 1 copy of Rogue Trader Core Rulebook, but I have two digital copies on my laptop and PC that allow mne to easily reference material, or when one of my players is flicking through it.

You've paid the creators, publishing company and retailer ... and having multiples of the same book (both digital and hard copy) so you can look at various sections simultaneously without flicking pages is efficient ... having two books would just be unwieldy.

 

[Spade Lead]

I've often wondered this myself with my record collection. I own the vinyl, but I'd like to hear it on my ipod. So would it be wrong to limewire a song or two from that album so I can listen to them?
Sadly, I always come to the same conclusion; that it is still stealing, no-matter what format you have it in before. Having a paperback novel and entitling yourself to the hard-cover is wrong. Owning a crappy 8-track is not the same as a digital remastered copy. Having your favorite movie in DVD, but wanting the Blue-ray for free is absurd. Simple answer, if it is worth paying for once, you can buy it again if you need whatever it is in your life.

But he isn't upgrading from DVD to Blu-Ray, he is cross-grading from DVDs, which he PAID for, to a digital copy that he only intends to use once before he deletes it.

 

[Scout Tactical]

Actually, no. The sites like LimeWire claim their intended use is for transferring of files between registered owners. Under that definition, I could download the ENTIRE Westside Connection "Terrorist Threats" album and it wouldn't be considered piracy because I already own a copy of the CD.

I'm not really sure what you're getting at here, but I was making a philosophical point, not a 'steal whatever you can' point. My reasoning was simply, "If you bought something, you are entitled to it." This is more of an ethical or moral standpoint than it is a practical or realist one.

What I was saying was that under the technical definitions of the terms of use of Limewire (yes, I actually read the terms of use for it), you aren't supposed to download material you don't own the rights to. If I download all six seasons of House M.D. onto my laptop, it is legal because I already paid for all six seasons on DVD. THAT was my point.

Yes. This view does not conflict with my view at all. I do not see why I needed to be quoted in the first place.