Is it possible to create a game that would create PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) in the gamer by being too realistic (with the gore and violence)? And is that the moral "wall" we've created for ourselves?
Poll: Is it possible to create a game that is "too real"?
- Thread starter TheMedicated
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I won't go as far as to seriously claim I suffered PTSD from playing military style shooters. I had played a couple of demos of Call of Duty and Battlefield. I really did not enjoy playing them, because they were too realistic for me. I enjoy playing first person shooters in science fiction and horror settings. Shooting imaginative monsters and aliens in video games are more fun than shooting human beings.
I ask this question purely out of a philosophical point...I play JRPGs...big eyes, small mouths...so no realism there LOLZ.
But my boyfriend, who is ex-Army, talked about wanting a game where the grenades blew people's limbs off instead of killing them outright. He says "You don't see chunkies"...which made me think of whether or not a game could be real enough to create mental trauma.
But my boyfriend, who is ex-Army, talked about wanting a game where the grenades blew people's limbs off instead of killing them outright. He says "You don't see chunkies"...which made me think of whether or not a game could be real enough to create mental trauma.
Maybe if you (somehow) didn't know you were playing a game, sure. An insanely realistic VR simulation game. I don't think VR technology is that advanced at the moment though, and it won't be for quite a bit of time.
PTSD is closely associated with helplessness. It's not enough to be traumatized, you have to be unable to do anything about the trauma. So generally with games, the weakness isn't inability to provide realism (though the general unwillingness to do so is pretty important), but more the fact that games can generally be just turned off and walked away from.
Gears of War series comes to mind. Grenades blow apart limbs and pieces of torsos in fine detail there. Granted, Gears of War is stylized instead of realistic.TheMedicated said:
Yet I haven't heard anyone suffering from PTSD playing that.
Spot on.Pyrian said:
A game could still cause trauma if the player feels trapped, and unable to quit. Something addictive yet traumatizing.
I don't see any reason why it would be impossible.
Has it happened? I dunno. Games can make people do some weird things.
Has it happened? I dunno. Games can make people do some weird things.
Ofcourse. Im sure some people have had adverse reactions to games to a major degree, but I find it unlikely to be from people accustomed to games before hand.
But just listening to say, Danny from Game Grumps talk about his first dealings with even just the N64, and my faith in the improvements of technology, I have no doubt it is possible.
But just listening to say, Danny from Game Grumps talk about his first dealings with even just the N64, and my faith in the improvements of technology, I have no doubt it is possible.
I might be being an idiot and rely on movies and shows too much, but don't people get PTSD just from certain sounds? If it all it takes is audio to trigger it, a whole video game, even if the technology isn't there, could easily do it.
My guess is that it would be impossible to make something like that until we get to the point of the Holodeck from Star Trek. Apart from games lacking a couple stimuli points - taste and smell - we are always aware that we aren't there. Things like the HUD and subtitles create just enough separation between us and the experience to make impacts that deeply felt impossible.
I'm not saying we don't emotionally connect to games, that's horseshit, we do but in the same way we connect with other media and art. I just finished watching 'Black Hawk Down' (great movie, highly recommended) and it's a visceral tale with a real sense of chaotic tension from the sheer number of people involved but remember when I said games lack taste and smell? I'm fuckin' glad movies lack them too otherwise I'd be retching my guts up by the end of the first hour what with all the guys getting blown up: I imagine the smell of human innards and cordite is potent, to say the least.
I'm not saying we don't emotionally connect to games, that's horseshit, we do but in the same way we connect with other media and art. I just finished watching 'Black Hawk Down' (great movie, highly recommended) and it's a visceral tale with a real sense of chaotic tension from the sheer number of people involved but remember when I said games lack taste and smell? I'm fuckin' glad movies lack them too otherwise I'd be retching my guts up by the end of the first hour what with all the guys getting blown up: I imagine the smell of human innards and cordite is potent, to say the least.
A lot of my choices for GOTY 2016 are meta games, game that toy with the boundary set of that barrier between player and character. One of them is Welcome to the Game.
And let me tell you, this game succeeds in scaring the hell out of me, the game dives into the concept of the Deep Web, and the stuff that happens there. You'd be forgiven to think it's all scary imagery and things with shock value to get a cheap scare out of you, because one of the mechanics is you are being hunted by someone who knows you and your every step. Silent Hill 2 made me afraid of noises in the dark like every other horror game, but this one went one step further: it made me anxious of sitting in a computer at night, considering that's part of my life, it succeeded too well.
And let me tell you, this game succeeds in scaring the hell out of me, the game dives into the concept of the Deep Web, and the stuff that happens there. You'd be forgiven to think it's all scary imagery and things with shock value to get a cheap scare out of you, because one of the mechanics is you are being hunted by someone who knows you and your every step. Silent Hill 2 made me afraid of noises in the dark like every other horror game, but this one went one step further: it made me anxious of sitting in a computer at night, considering that's part of my life, it succeeded too well.
Well, I just googled it.sagitel said:
Apparently anything that can activate someone's "fight or flight" response can lead to PTSD, and sounds especially because humans are actually more responsive to noise than sight.
If I"m parsing the OP's question correctly, they're suggesting that the game creates the PTSD. In the sense that your experience in the game literally traumatizes you. Which seems unlikely unless you had some sort of contributing factor, like an inability to rationalize the difference between reality and fiction, or were playing something at an age before those concepts take hold.Aerosteam said:
A game triggering existing PTSD is certainly possible, but someone with the condition would likely be able to avoid games related to their trauma with minor research before buying/playing.
PTSD flashbacks can be triggered from things like sounds, smells, sights, sensations and even emotions that are similar to those experienced during the event that caused the trauma. How bad this is varies from person to person, some are more sensitive than others, but everyone with PTSD has some kind of trigger that creates anxiety or full blown flashbacks.Aerosteam said:
Pertinent to the OP is the diagnostic criteria for PTSD, where the first criterion [http://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/PTSD-overview/dsm5_criteria_ptsd.asp] that must be met is:
"The person was exposed to: death, threatened death, actual or threatened serious injury, or actual or threatened sexual violence, in the following way(s):
Direct exposure
Witnessing the trauma
Learning that a relative or close friend was exposed to a trauma
Indirect exposure to aversive details of the trauma, usually in the course of professional duties (e.g., first responders, medics)"
So the obvious answer in light of the DSM 5 diagnostic criteria must be no, you can not suffer PTSD from realistic games. The human mind is very good at separating actual danger from "recreational" danger, such as horror movies or action games. That's why people can be scared out of their minds from watching The Thing, but suffer no lasting impairment even if they were crying in terror all the way through, but why Soldiers returning from Iraq can suffer PTSD from having been near the target zone of a mortar attack. In the latter case the mind realizes that you could have been hurt or killed, in the former the mind knows that it was not a real event.
It is also worth pointing out that helplessness has nothing to do with PTSD, despite the popular idea that it does. PTSD can arise in people who are in full control of traumatic situations (such as soldiers, paramedics or firefighters), simply because the situation itself is so emotionally demanding that it is hard to let go off.
For it to create PTSD? It'd be quite a feat for a game, though if technology got to the point where our brains couldn't tell the virtual world from the real one, -'d if the gamer in question was young enough to have a tenuous grasp on the distinction between real and fake, then maybe.
That said, I'd argue a game could become too real long before it reached PTSD level. For instance, a game set in medieval or Victorian times, where the player smelled the cities as they must have smelled in real life, would probably be too real for most people
That said, I'd argue a game could become too real long before it reached PTSD level. For instance, a game set in medieval or Victorian times, where the player smelled the cities as they must have smelled in real life, would probably be too real for most people
Can it be real enough that it triggers PTSD? Yes. Current games probably do that all the time. A game could probably be real enough to have a few problems, but creating PTSD I don't think is one of them. Unless it forcefully trapped you to play some scary shit like Sword Art Online.
But if anything, seeing waaay too much blood and gore would simply desensitize someone to violence through exposure, which is the opposite of trauma.
But if anything, seeing waaay too much blood and gore would simply desensitize someone to violence through exposure, which is the opposite of trauma.
Yeah but take people with ( real) phobias for example. They know they cant be harmed and yet there is still a irrational fear there. Like people with arachnophobia that sees a spider on TV. Regardless of what you "know" your brain works in an entirely different way.BabyfartsMcgeezaks said:
Can a game be too real? Talk to all the people who got so into World of warcraft they lost their jobs, spouses and so forth. Despite it not being realistic in any way, people still regarded it higher than real life. Just wait for a VR " THE SIMS to come out.
Can it cause PTSD. I dont see why not. Ever play a game so much you dreamt about it? Think of PTSD being a more extreme version of that.