Poll: Is it possible to create a game that is "too real"?

[Bad Jim]

But my boyfriend, who is ex-Army, talked about wanting a game where the grenades blew people's limbs off instead of killing them outright.

I don't think this is realistic. If the grenade is close enough that the blast can separate limb from torso, it will mess up the torso pretty badly too. It's common for soldiers to lose limbs to shrapnel, but the limb is likely to remain attached until a surgeon removes it.

I seem to remember that in Soldier of Fortune you could shoot limbs off. This is more realistic because a shotgun blast or automatic fire can do that without killing the soldier. It was kinda cool, but it was also controversial, ultimately harmed sales, and didn't add much to the gameplay.

 

[TheMedicated]

I know some games are bound to go for all-out realism, but to me it's important that games incorporate a bit of an art style as well. They can be realistic in terms of having realistic elements, but if that's all games have going for them then they become more of a simulation of some sort than an actual game.

I want to see things like AI and physics take a much more prominent step forwards in the future. Rely less on scripted narrative and venture into more self-authored territory, where the player has a more significant say in how things turn out over the course of a game. Being able to interact more fully with their surroundings will also go a long way.

We already have some outstanding visuals and big enough worlds to play in; now let's focus on rounding them out to be more believable and immersive.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Can it cause PTSD. I dont see why not. Ever play a game so much you dreamt about it? Think of PTSD being a more extreme version of that.

No. PTSD is a discrete diagnosis according to the Diagnostic & Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and the diagnostic criteria for PTSD explicitly state that the trauma must originate from a situation where "The person was exposed to: death, threatened death, actual or threatened serious injury, or actual or threatened sexual violence". As such, a game can not cause PTSD, because a game, no matter how realistic, can not fulfill the criteria of being such a situation.

The answers to the poll are somewhat depressing to the psychiatric professional in me, for the above mentioned reason. A lot of uninformed lay people throwing around a diagnosis of which they know very little.

 

[Lufia Erim]

Can it cause PTSD. I dont see why not. Ever play a game so much you dreamt about it? Think of PTSD being a more extreme version of that.

No. PTSD is a discrete diagnosis according to the Diagnostic & Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and the diagnostic criteria for PTSD explicitly state that the trauma must originate from a situation where "The person was exposed to: death, threatened death, actual or threatened serious injury, or actual or threatened sexual violence". As such, a game can not cause PTSD, because a game, no matter how realistic, can not fulfill the criteria of being such a situation.

The answers to the poll are somewhat depressing to the psychiatric professional in me, for the above mentioned reason. A lot of uninformed lay people throwing around a diagnosis of which they know very little.

So your saying it is impossible to trick the mind into thinking you are in such a situation? Because i think videogames would be the ideal to make your brain believe you are in a situation where "The person was exposed to: death, threatened death, actual or threatened serious injury, or actual or threatened sexual violence". Despite not really being in that kind of situation at all. We trick our minds and bodies all the time, i don't see why this would be different.

But im no expert.

 

[Mcgeezaks]

No because it's still a game, maybe if you have a hard time differentiating a game and reality, in that case you already got a problem.

Yeah but take people with ( real) phobias for example. They know they cant be harmed and yet there is still a irrational fear there. Like people with arachnophobia that sees a spider on TV. Regardless of what you "know" your brain works in an entirely different way.

Can a game be too real? Talk to all the people who got so into World of warcraft they lost their jobs, spouses and so forth. Despite it not being realistic in any way, people still regarded it higher than real life. Just wait for a VR " THE SIMS to come out.

Can it cause PTSD. I dont see why not. Ever play a game so much you dreamt about it? Think of PTSD being a more extreme version of that.

Yeah sure that is possible, but causing PTSD? Sounds pretty laughable to me.

 

[TheMedicated]

Thanks, everyone, for your input!!! It's proving to be quite interesting hearing others' perspectives in regards to this topic!

 

[Remus]

Red Orchestra? Anyone? I've had some crazy dreams about playing that game. It thrives on realism in a factual-based wartime environment. I have no doubt that certain shooters can in fact trigger PTSD in some people. So could Silent Hill 2 or any number of first-person horror titles out now. Reminds me, the Resident Evil demo had its final update. I'll be playing it in VR to get the full effect.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

So your saying it is impossible to trick the mind into thinking you are in such a situation? Because i think videogames would be the ideal to make your brain believe you are in a situation where "The person was exposed to: death, threatened death, actual or threatened serious injury, or actual or threatened sexual violence". Despite not really being in that kind of situation at all. We trick our minds and bodies all the time, i don't see why this would be different.

But im no expert.

Impossible, no. Doable with a computer game in the foreseeable future? Definitely not. A game is no different than seeing a scary movie, and even if someone with claustrophobia sits through The Descent while crying and screaming in terror the entire time they won't develop PTSD (though they might have nightmares). The brain understands that it is not an actual life threatening situation, even if it is scary.

Let me relate to my own life: I work in psychiatry, I am regularly subjected to or threatened with violence. The feeling of being close to someone who says they'll punch me out is not even comparable to even the most intense action game. The trauma of walking in on someone who's trying to hang themselves or have cut open their own wrists is so far removed from seeing a dead body or hurt person in any computer game (no matter how realistic) as to not even compare. We have to understand that even the best simulations in computer games are only very crude approximations that fall far short of the real deal, this goes doubly true for games that deal with violence, war and death.

All of that is inconsequential to my initial point though, namely that Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is a rigidly defined diagnosis, one you can't get without having experienced a real traumatic situation. One can argue the merit of the DSM V or the risk of medicalization of natural human reactions, but I think that's out of the scope of this thread.

 

[I can't enter my old name]

Red Orchestra? Anyone? I've had some crazy dreams about playing that game. It thrives on realism in a factual-based wartime environment. I have no doubt that certain shooters can in fact trigger PTSD in some people. So could Silent Hill 2 or any number of first-person horror titles out now. Reminds me, the Resident Evil demo had its final update. I'll be playing it in VR to get the full effect.

Yes, Red Orchestra is a step in the right direction for being too real. The IOM mod is the most "real" shooter I know of, not in an ARMA simulation way, but by being terrifying and disturbing, something I have never seen in a video game before.

It makes Battlefield look like a kids game. I'll stick with the vanilla version.

 

[darkcalling]

Games probably TRIGGER PTSD quite often. I've heard it doesn't always take much to do that.

I doubt games as they are now could CAUSE PTSD (maybe if the person had some mental illness that made it difficult to separate reality and fantasy). I'd imagine it'd take VR on the level of a Star Trek Holodeck or The Matrix to do that.

 

[Chimpzy_v1legacy]

But my boyfriend, who is ex-Army, talked about wanting a game where the grenades blew people's limbs off instead of killing them outright.

I don't think this is realistic. If the grenade is close enough that the blast can separate limb from torso, it will mess up the torso pretty badly too. It's common for soldiers to lose limbs to shrapnel, but the limb is likely to remain attached until a surgeon removes it.

I seem to remember that in Soldier of Fortune you could shoot limbs off. This is more realistic because a shotgun blast or automatic fire can do that without killing the soldier. It was kinda cool, but it was also controversial, ultimately harmed sales, and didn't add much to the gameplay.

Gibbing, i.e. explosives or other powerful weapons turning enemies into chunky salsa, used to be very common in shooters and such, at least until the advent of ragdoll physics. It was generally the entire body that got blown to bits though, rather than just some parts.

Gibs are fairly rare nowadays (and it seems many games limit them to non-human[footnote]That may just be my imagination though[/footnote]), but there are still some around. Notably, the Bethesda Fallout games can do the whole 'grenades blow off limbs'. But I wouldn't call their execution realistic by any means. Any weapon can do it in the right conditions, with some hilarious results. I have fond memories of going around eviscerating the Wasteland by launching teddybears at the baddies.

 

[Vanilla ISIS]

Well, there was this woman who suffered PTSD from Twitter posts and online trolling.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2605888/Woman-claims-PTSD-Twitter-cyberstalking-says-bit-war-veterans.html

I'm sure she would suffer a heart attack after playing a few hours of Doom.