Poll: Is pirating old games morally permissable?

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slackboy72

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Jun 12, 2008
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I stopped pirating games when I found myself holding down a well paying 9-5 job.
But then I found I couldn't find a copy of SimCity 2000 or Conquest of the New World anywhere.

So I downloaded them.

So abandonware I'm okay with pirating.
Stuff like X-Com or Zelda OoT that is still available on Steam or Wii VC then I'm okay with shelling out for a second time.
 

The Madman

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Dec 7, 2007
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If the game is not available through any official means and has been out of production for some time, then despite my hardcore anti-piracy stance I honestly can't see the harm in downloading it.

If it's still available on STEAM or GOG however then I encourage people to buy it from them, GOG especially, since it supports the brand and allows the developers and publishers to know there's still interest in the game.

Otherwise I genuinely can't see the harm. At least it keeps people talking about a game which otherwise might have fallen completely into obscurity.
 
Jan 29, 2009
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If the only way to buy a game is in such a way that none of the money actually gets to the people who made the game, I think pirating is a better option.
 

DKen2021

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Apr 16, 2011
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I say it's alright.... unless the game you want to play is on the Virtual Console, Xbox Live, or PSN, then no, you monster.
 

Canid117

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Oct 6, 2009
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I usually just buy off of Steam or Half because I dont trust torrents and other piracy methods.
 

Ca3zar416

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Sep 8, 2010
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If it's absolutely impossible for you to buy it elsewhere than it is fine. But if it's just a money or laziness issue than no. I'm pretty sure someone already mentioned that some of the games you are talking about really aren't at that point of old yet but whatever.
 

Blastinburn

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Apr 13, 2011
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Sure, if you cannot find it legally anywhere else go for it. BUT UNDERSTAND THIS! It is still illegal unless the rights holders abandon their rights to the game and if you are caught you will have absolutely no legal ground to stand on.

For Example: The official Nintendo website talks about piracy and emulation and even for games they are not producing anymore they still hold the rights and it is illegal to download them.
http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp
 

omega_peaches

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Jan 23, 2010
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I think it's okay in some cases, like I couldn't find a copy of Max Payne anywhere ( I still have my legit copy,) but there are some games that you can find all over the place.
 

Kagim

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Aug 26, 2009
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Owyn_Merrilin said:
What you just wrote is an excellent argument in favor of piracy. If we recognize that the point of purchasing a product, rather than pirating it, is to ensure that its creators get paid, why is it our moral obligation to pay for a copy that they won't see any money for? Hear me out, because I'm not arguing for piracy so much as pointing out that our current copyright laws are seriously flawed. This is coming from a US perspective because the US copyright laws are the ones I'm familiar with, and because it's mostly American companies that are going after people for copyright enforcement.
Because those people who worked to make the game got a nice paycheck for making said product in the first place. It's not like a publisher whips people to make a game then tells them to fuck off. What you said is basically that because McDoanlds doesn't actually raise the cattle or prepare the burgers you shouldn't have to pay for your meal. After all, it wasn't me the frycook who raised the cattle, butchered it, then pressed it into 1/10 ounce circles. It was a butcher. All i did was make it usable to you. Much like how publishers take the end product and distribute it to the public.

When you fastforward to the very first US copyright law, it was enacted with the intention of allowing a content creator to profit off of his work for a short period (something like 20 years, although I could be off by a little bit) and then allow it to go into the public domain, during which he could still profit off of it, but would not have a legally enforced monopoly on its production. This is, ultimately, the point of copyright and public domain works; to allow a content creator to profit off of his work for a period, but not for all eternity.

Fast forward to today, and the copyright lasts for 75 years after the creator's death. At this point, his grandchildren's grandchildren will be seeing money off of something they had nothing to do with -- or, more likely, the grandchildren's grandchildren of the publisher who bought the rights from him. We have Disney to thank for this, since they politely ask congress to extend their copyright every time Steamboat Willie is due to go into the public domain, and congress always obliges.
It actually isn't for all eternity, the reason why it is so long is so that big business companies can't just sit and vulture anyone's works. Penny arcade has hit it's twentieth year. Now imagine if any company with a lot of power just starting raping them as hard as they can. Every comic book publisher can now just take there shit and mass produce it, being able to smother them out of the picture simply because they can use all that money they saved on creating there own product to mass produce and over advertise. Now imagine this on a webcomic that is lesser known. Lets say wonderella. Now imagine once it hit its twentieth year mark suddenly there are three tv shows, a movie, and thousands of t-shirts. All being mass produced by people who have no idea who really made it. None of that money going to the original creator who simply couldn't afford mass branding.

Thus, big business has a limitless pool of ideas to steal from, legally. Which do you prefer, a company can hold on to its rights for a long time, or they can simply just sit and wait to steal ideas from anyone they want. That way anyone who isn't rich can watch as their hard work is plundered by people with more money and influence then them.

But hey, at least you can play Halo for free yeah?

Now, can you really support a system which allows people who aren't even related to the creation of a work to profit off of it indefinitely? It's a complete perversion of the original intent of copyright, not to mention ironic, coming from a nation whose economy was basically founded on piracy. When a system that was meant to protect the creator of a work turns around and prevents him from profiting on it (as the person quoted above described) how on earth can we continue to support it?
Yes, i can. Because that game, or movie wouldn't exist with financial backing from someone. The people who develop are hired ot do a job. They are not kept in the dark about what is going on. They are well within there power to work and make a game together with no outside financial help. However they have made the conscious decision to take a job under a company and work for a stable salary rather then take the risk and work off their own steam.

Not ot mention there is something called the Creative commons

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/

That people have the option of using. Once again, all those developers have the power to strike off on their own, risk it all, and use that Copyright. However they make the choice not to.

The choice is always there, people simply choose not to take the risk. A publishing company puts forth money and connects investors. In return they essentially purchase the finished product. They get the rights to it because they just paid the developing company money equal to the agreed upon terms, who in turn paid all their employees money equal to their agreed upon terms. Nothing is immoral or corrupt. Unless you twist it as hard as you can.



TL;DR: Copyright is seriously screwed up, and is in a state completely opposed to its original intent.
Because its original intent is outdated. Times have changed. And more the large companies are protected by copyright. All laws can and will be abused, that however doesn't mean it's flawed. It means there are pricks out there.

Copyright does more to protect the little guy then it does to protect the rich. The only reason people fight it is because either a)They hear a horror story or b) they think they deserve whatever they want.
 

Suijen

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Apr 15, 2009
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The moral question is, "is it a lost sale?". If it's not, go ahead and download it if you can. I try to get legit copies of a game to pay homage to it though.
 

Veylon

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Aug 15, 2008
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This is a category that is diminishing all the time. The classic games would be the old NES, SNES, & DOS games like Final Fantasy V or Master of Magic that were simply and completely unavailable outside of piracy. With the advent of WiiWare, GoG, and the generally increased interest of copyright holders to monetize their back catalogs, there are fewer and fewer games one can make this argument for.

There are still some that are fair game. Terranigma, for instance, as well as Seiken Densetsu 3 and Bahamut Lagoon are still not legitimately available in the US. Companies rarely care about anything more than a few years old; there are a number of ROM sites that have been allowing downloads continuously for upwards of ten years that haven't been shut down.
 

crudus

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Oct 20, 2008
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no
no, period.
no
Technically this depends on where your morals lie and how closely you read between the lines. Some people have no qualms about ripping the DRM apart and downloading a game. Therefore, it is morally ok for them to steal a game no matter the age. Also, saying "morally ok" and "justified" are two different things. It isn't morally ok to kill people, but it is justified to do it in self-defense. However, if we want to go that route we would need to define various parameters for it to be "morally justified" to pirate it.

I can still find whatever game I want just down the street from my house. So, it would not be "ok" for me to pirate those games according to half of the posts here. How far would you need to travel and how long will you need to search for you to say "well I can't find it. It is now justified for me to pirate it"? If I know a guy three states over who knows where I can buy a copy of a game, would I be required to buy that copy? Same thing goes for that friend who knows a guy whose cousin's wife's uncle owns a game store with the game I am looking for. There is a lot of ifs, buts, and other conditionals that are just a pain in the ass to define.

GoldenFish said:
I think it's fine. It's like something extra credits said about how pirating a game you cannot buy is okay (if anyone knows the actual quote be my guest to post it.
They didn't say it was "ok". They said it was the only justifiable reason.