Poll: is that propaganda?

[Neonit]

sure it is! and that makes them.... A COMMUNIST!
but tbh, yea it sure is propaganda, but what did you expect? a wounded soldier with missing leg crying for his mom? depending on the age of audience this is somewhere between sickening to just plain silly.... and seeing as this is something that is mandatory, i feel this is just one of those "we need to get rid of some money FAST!" situations.
i feel sorry for you, because i just dodged a mandatory military service because frankly i dont feel like wasting any amount of time learning something that I have no use of. 3 years is a sh*tload of time, in this time you could get some kind of education that would benefit you.

 

[Dessembrae]

Ofcourse it's propaganda, every military will spoon feed you heroic patriotism till your ears bleed so you wont hesitate even for a second when they tell you to kill people for them.

well the Swedish military might disagree with you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWqT8Rljt_8&feature=related
note that for comparison there is an US recruitment ad first.

OT: yes. yes it is propaganda.

 

[Shraggler]

I am terrible at judging what is and isn't propaganda. Unless is some Goebbels-esque "It's all the black's fault", "The Jews are the enemy" type of thing, I don't really have an opinion either way.

Although I think it's less ignorance and more distrust on my part - I believe that most everything said in front of the press or a group of people is a lie, in one way or another. So whether it be propaganda or political spin, it all gets heaped on the same pile of bullshit.

 

[TorqueConverter]

so im in the 11th grade and i live in israel that means that in 2 years i have to join the army for 3 years (yes have to its mandatory in israel...) so today we had a pre first order day to get us ready for the first round of tests to see where you are going to serve.
as part of the day we were shown a movie that should show us what we will go through in our first order (first order=the first round of tests freely translated) so in the video a boy our age named dani who is our age is called for the tests. he says how exited he is and how he cant wait to get into the "action" (which is followed by shots of planes tanks and soliders that looks like they were brought from a batellfield playthrough) then he goes off and is told with slight humor about all the phases of the tests and is given tips and what not...
so i ask you isnt that propaganda? i dont mean the whole thing (that would be silly) but the part when the boy (who we are supossed to reflect on) says how exited he is about going to battle and then we are being shown how "awsome" it will be and how exited we are supposed to be as well...
what do you think then?

EDIT: btw the kid was an actor...
also im not claiming all propaganda is bad (this one is for difrent reasons that i wont get into now) the argument with my friend was IS it propaganda not is it bad...
ive seen on many of the commets that "it doesnt show the bad stuff" argument and i must say that my buddy (whom im having this argument with) said that it doesnt show what happens but what the kid wants/expects it to be! so thats thats...


*DISCLAIMER*: i am not trying to insult anyone or disrespect millitary men i just had an argument with a classmate who says this isnt propaganda...

Propaganda. If Israel had a volunteer force I would dismiss such a video as a promotional tool for recruitment. Seeing as it is a conscript Army I have to say that is a propaganda video aimed at motivation and moral. "You don't have a choice in the matter, so look how cool all this is going to be and be fucking happy dammit!"

 

[zulu.fox]

Defiantly propaganda , with an element of social conditioning. Its nothing new, I remember seeing the videos the British MoD made in the 1950's when Conscription was still used in UK, they used the "imminent" threat of Soviet invasion to try and scare people into thinking it was a good idea.

Late Teens are easily suspect able to it as they see tanks , fast jets etc as "cool" . Without realizing that they are still weapons designed to kill. (I am probably sounding like a hypocrite as I applied to join the Royal Air Force as a pilot but failed the medical due to some weird eye thing)

 

[idodo35]

snip
Propaganda. If Israel had a volunteer force I would dismiss such a video as a promotional tool for recruitment. Seeing as it is a conscript Army I have to say that is a propaganda video aimed at motivation and moral. "You don't have a choice in the matter, so look how cool all this is going to be and be fucking happy dammit!"

lol my thoughts exactly!

 

[IndianaJonny]

...as part of the day we were shown a movie that should show us what we will go through in our first order (first order=the first round of tests freely translated)...

Is this for your bagrut? I'm trying to track down the video.

If it is aimed at inluencing you it is propaganda.

Thanks, I've now developed a total fear of ever being 'inluenced'; it sounds painful.

 

[idodo35]

...as part of the day we were shown a movie that should show us what we will go through in our first order (first order=the first round of tests freely translated)...

Is this for your bagrut? I'm trying to track down the video.

what video? and no the bagroot is high schools final exams this is just to decide where to send us for our millitary service...

 

[thespyisdead]

wow... 3 year of your life goes into military service... that, out right sucks( here it's only 0.5-1)

OT: has all the elements of propaganda: in essence it butters you up for army, so that you will not dodge your conscription, at least thats how i see it

 

[Giest4life]

Did propaganda become a 'dirty' word now?

Considering I've never seen it used without the qualifier of dishonesty, yes, and with good reason.

So you don't like those Sony ads with Kevin Butler? Not all propaganda is evil and dishonest. You do realize many people are proud willing and excited to serve their country... and buy PS3 games...

; )

Separate propaganda from advertisement, please, the different terms aren't there to be interchangeable just so you could prove your supposed smarts on a forum somewhere. They are, contrary to the vague description in your little dictionary, used in entirely different contexts in any serious discussion, those being politics and, well, the rest.

And yes, I do hate advertising that is dishonest, that's why I actually prefer stuff like Kevin Butler ads, that don't spooge all over their fucking product the entire time and try to sell it with humor.

There has to be some issue (not advertising) you side with.... let's see.... legalizing drugs? There is tons of propaganda from both sides there, do you really think all sides to all issues are always filled with dishonesty?

How hard is it to get the point? I hate propaganda, not getting a point across. There are lots of issues I side with, but dishonesty - never.

The point is: Not all propaganda is dishonest.

Eh? I think propaganda is necessarily dishonest. Propaganda packages the good and filters out the bad, but even for supposedly the most "noble" of causes, there is always a negative aspect which is deliberately left out.

Even a propaganda campaign urging people to live is dishonest because, as Hamlet puts it, there is a downside even to life:
"To die?to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to."

 

[TorqueConverter]

Did propaganda become a 'dirty' word now?

Considering I've never seen it used without the qualifier of dishonesty, yes, and with good reason.

So you don't like those Sony ads with Kevin Butler? Not all propaganda is evil and dishonest. You do realize many people are proud willing and excited to serve their country... and buy PS3 games...

; )

Separate propaganda from advertisement, please, the different terms aren't there to be interchangeable just so you could prove your supposed smarts on a forum somewhere. They are, contrary to the vague description in your little dictionary, used in entirely different contexts in any serious discussion, those being politics and, well, the rest.

And yes, I do hate advertising that is dishonest, that's why I actually prefer stuff like Kevin Butler ads, that don't spooge all over their fucking product the entire time and try to sell it with humor.

There has to be some issue (not advertising) you side with.... let's see.... legalizing drugs? There is tons of propaganda from both sides there, do you really think all sides to all issues are always filled with dishonesty?

How hard is it to get the point? I hate propaganda, not getting a point across. There are lots of issues I side with, but dishonesty - never.

The point is: Not all propaganda is dishonest.

Eh? I think propaganda is necessarily dishonest. Propaganda packages the good and filters out the bad, but even for supposedly the most "noble" of causes, there is always a negative aspect which is deliberately left out.

Even a propaganda campaign urging people to live is dishonest because, as Hamlet puts it, there is a downside even to life:
"To die?to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to."

Interesting take on propaganda. I've always felt it is either good or bad depending on the context. How do you feel about the American WWII propaganda posters encouraging women to join in support the war effort in the field of agriculture and manufacturing? How about other war time propaganda that promoted voluntary rationing and recycling of rubber and metal?

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Of course it's propaganda, what else could it be? Who in their right mind would support compulsory military service without being brainwashed?

 

[zulu.fox]

There is a lot of "good" propaganda as well. In WWII era Britain , the government produced hundreds of posters to be displayed at public places to increase moral within the population. The most famous one is of course:

 

[Giest4life]

Did propaganda become a 'dirty' word now?

Considering I've never seen it used without the qualifier of dishonesty, yes, and with good reason.

So you don't like those Sony ads with Kevin Butler? Not all propaganda is evil and dishonest. You do realize many people are proud willing and excited to serve their country... and buy PS3 games...

; )

Separate propaganda from advertisement, please, the different terms aren't there to be interchangeable just so you could prove your supposed smarts on a forum somewhere. They are, contrary to the vague description in your little dictionary, used in entirely different contexts in any serious discussion, those being politics and, well, the rest.

And yes, I do hate advertising that is dishonest, that's why I actually prefer stuff like Kevin Butler ads, that don't spooge all over their fucking product the entire time and try to sell it with humor.

There has to be some issue (not advertising) you side with.... let's see.... legalizing drugs? There is tons of propaganda from both sides there, do you really think all sides to all issues are always filled with dishonesty?

How hard is it to get the point? I hate propaganda, not getting a point across. There are lots of issues I side with, but dishonesty - never.

The point is: Not all propaganda is dishonest.

Eh? I think propaganda is necessarily dishonest. Propaganda packages the good and filters out the bad, but even for supposedly the most "noble" of causes, there is always a negative aspect which is deliberately left out.

Even a propaganda campaign urging people to live is dishonest because, as Hamlet puts it, there is a downside even to life:
"To die?to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to."

Interesting take on propaganda. I've always felt it is either good or bad depending on the context. How do you feel about the American WWII propaganda posters encouraging women to join in support the war effort in the field of agriculture and manufacturing? How about other war time propaganda that promoted voluntary rationing and recycling of rubber and metal?

There seems to be a slight misunderstanding here. The distinction that we draw between honesty and dishonesty is reminiscent of the moral prejudice of philosophers which has dominated Western philosophy for far too long. There is nothing "good" in honesty, and conversely, there is nothing "bad" about dishonesty. Propaganda, which is necessarily dishonest, can bear sweet fruit.

I'm not arguing for a utilitarian view of propaganda, I'm just saying that propaganda is still dishonest even if it is used for some "noble" causes, such as fighting Nazis, racism, extremism, and environmental pollution.

 

[IndianaJonny]

...as part of the day we were shown a movie that should show us what we will go through in our first order (first order=the first round of tests freely translated)...

Is this for your bagrut? I'm trying to track down the video.

what video? and no the bagroot is high schools final exams this is just to decide where to send us for our millitary service...

The movie you mention in the OP; it would be nice to see it for ourselves. Just on a related but different topic, does Israel offer non-combat options in its conscription system (like Germany)?

 

[TorqueConverter]

Did propaganda become a 'dirty' word now?

Considering I've never seen it used without the qualifier of dishonesty, yes, and with good reason.

So you don't like those Sony ads with Kevin Butler? Not all propaganda is evil and dishonest. You do realize many people are proud willing and excited to serve their country... and buy PS3 games...

; )

Separate propaganda from advertisement, please, the different terms aren't there to be interchangeable just so you could prove your supposed smarts on a forum somewhere. They are, contrary to the vague description in your little dictionary, used in entirely different contexts in any serious discussion, those being politics and, well, the rest.

And yes, I do hate advertising that is dishonest, that's why I actually prefer stuff like Kevin Butler ads, that don't spooge all over their fucking product the entire time and try to sell it with humor.

There has to be some issue (not advertising) you side with.... let's see.... legalizing drugs? There is tons of propaganda from both sides there, do you really think all sides to all issues are always filled with dishonesty?

How hard is it to get the point? I hate propaganda, not getting a point across. There are lots of issues I side with, but dishonesty - never.

The point is: Not all propaganda is dishonest.

Eh? I think propaganda is necessarily dishonest. Propaganda packages the good and filters out the bad, but even for supposedly the most "noble" of causes, there is always a negative aspect which is deliberately left out.

Even a propaganda campaign urging people to live is dishonest because, as Hamlet puts it, there is a downside even to life:
"To die?to sleep,
No more; and by a sleep to say we end
The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to."

Interesting take on propaganda. I've always felt it is either good or bad depending on the context. How do you feel about the American WWII propaganda posters encouraging women to join in support the war effort in the field of agriculture and manufacturing? How about other war time propaganda that promoted voluntary rationing and recycling of rubber and metal?

There seems to be a slight misunderstanding here. The distinction that we draw between honesty and dishonesty is reminiscent of the moral prejudice of philosophers which has dominated Western philosophy for far too long. There is nothing "good" in honesty, and conversely, there is nothing "bad" about dishonesty. Propaganda, which is necessarily dishonest, can bear sweet fruit.

I'm not arguing for a utilitarian view of propaganda, I'm just saying that propaganda is still dishonest even if it is used for some "noble" causes, such as fighting Nazis, racism, extremism, and environmental pollution.

No misunderstanding, as I find your take on propaganda refreshing and is providing me with food for thought. I don't agree with some things, but I find the dishonesty and the morality of dishonesty argument of propaganda interesting. Carry on.