Poll: Is the ratio of women in the industry really a sign of sexism?

[Toy Master Typhus]

So at the Sony Playstation4 showing there was an uproar in hate email after words, over the fact that there were no women presenters...

http://kotaku.com/5985822/why-were-there-no-women-presenters-at-the-playstation-4-event

The hate got so bad for Sony that they then put out a recent G.I.R.L. scholarship to try and deflect the hate.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2013/02/21/sony-online-entertainment-is-now-accepting-apps-for-g-i-r-l-scholarship.aspx

Am I the only one who thinks this nonsense is getting out of hand? The fact that none of the high-ladder people were female is entirely the result of sexism. In an Industry that consists of GLOBALLY 39,000 people, there is a STATISTICALLY POSSIBLE outcome that doesn't equal 50/50. But no, it's sexism.

I have been going to school for video game design for the past 2 years now and the distinct lack of females sometimes noticeably, in my class there is 20 males to 3 females but of everyone attending in my major it is closer to 27 males to 8 females. Being a creeper here on the Escapist and our love of the controversy of the subject I decided to ask them how they feel about being a female game developer.

Not one of them gave a single damn. They believed that it wasn't something worth mentioning, they didn't feel different because of their gender from other developers they said that if any discouragement came it was from their friends who saw this as stupid career path.

I kinda built my view around the conversations I had with them because it seems like we have all been trying to hard to force this equality. What is it that people just don't want to be game designers, not something that is exclusive to gender but by the reality that we live in a society of free will and why does everyone need to love one thing?

What say you Escapist.

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

I'd say it's more a sign of different interests than sexism. At the same time, people will complain about anything and everything, so I'm not surprised those kind of things happen. What surprises me is when companies react like Sony did, because it validates the complaints in people's eyes.

 

[Zhukov]

A sexism topic.

Oh joy.

Yeah, seems a bit storm-in-a-teacup-ish.

I don't doubt that the industry has its fair share of sexism, but a general lack of interest on the part of women is probably the major cause. It's kind of a self-perpetuating thing. The industry is male dominated, so fewer women consider it, so it continues to be male dominated.

 

[Windcaler]

The games industry, much like many positions within government, is an equal opportunity career. That means the person is not judged by their sex, race, sexuality, religion, political beliefs, etc. Whoever can do the best job is the one that gets the job. This is how things should be. When women are given preferential treatment purely because of their gender then we have real sexism going on, sexism against men

Theres nothing stopping a female developer from starting up her own company and making whatever game she wants to but so far as I can tell we arent seeing that. Neither do we have any amazing games that are seen as the sole product of a female mind like Fable is to Peter Moleneaux. In time these things will change but right now this just isnt the world we live in. The industry is a male dominated industry, not because of sexism but just because there are more males working in it then females. Thats just the reality of it

Now dont get me wrong. Im not saying that sexism in the industry doesnt exist but there are legal means that someone can pursue if theyre actually being discriminated against. I just want equality within the industry where no one gets preferential treatment because of their gender, race, sexuality, religion, or political beliefs. The people complaining about there not being any women in the PS4 presentation Im sure have no idea what the reality of the industry really is and I would even go so far as to think they dont believe in equal opportunity or dont think its important

 

[Vault101]

oh fuck

do we really need one of thease? REALLY? havnt we suffered enough? WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN?

alright my 10cents

on average and speaking in big sweeping generalisations women are not drawn to gaming/working in the buisness as much as men....why? is is socially driven? biologically driven? WHO KNOWS

thats why you dont see the wimmins as much when it comes to game development

does this mean we can;t complain about the treatment of females in games? FUCK NO

 

[alphamalet]

I've posted about this on the forums before.

I am currently attending a university studying game design as an undergrad, and will be attending graduate school to study game production. Our program is 95% male. The ratio of male to female is overwhelming. I know we would like more females to get involved, and offer a different perspective. The college has tried to specifically generate interest among the female demographic, and has failed. Nothing seems to pull more females into the program. The overwhelming majority just lack any interest. If you are a woman, and feel as though you have something to contribute to video games, then I highly encourage you to pursue this interest.

Until more females become interested in contributing to the medium, there is nothing we can really do. There is nothing actively excluding them from joining in...

 

[Ryotknife]

I would say it indicates a problem. I would say that sexism is merely one factor out of a group of factors.

 

[Chemical Alia]

I met a friend's young niece and nephew last year for a couple minutes. They're both very interested in art, and like some of the stuff I made for TF2. I was amazed when my friend told me just a couple weeks ago how thrilled those kids were to have met me and how it supercharged their interest in drawing. Apparently the girl had never even considered the possibility of working on games someday, and could barely even believe that there are women out there who do. But when she met me, she was able to make that connection on a more personal level and it got her thinking about something she otherwise might never have. I just thought that was really cool, because I remember feeling the same exact way when I was her age.

Being a game developer is seen as weird to most adults, period. I certainly wouldn't want to see girls discouraged from making games because it's "just something that guys do". I don't think that the industry needs to fulfill a "female quota" or anything like that, but things like knowing that my small but visible presence in the industry might encourage other girls to not completely write off the possibility with games is a great thing. The industry won't change until the people within it change, so the more people have an open mind towards it, the more diverse the future will be.

 

[StriderShinryu]

Is it targeted and direct sexism? No. I would say that the majority of people in the industry would have no issue working with/for females. It is, however, perhaps more of an endemic institutional sexism. When things are done a certain way for a rather long time it becomes the status quo and inertia kicks in.

To answer the poll, I don't know that a 50/50 split is necessarily that important. On the other hand, I do think it would be nice if there were more females working in the industry simply because it could bring different perspectives to the games that are made.

 

[fozzy360]

It's a societal issue. Females are just less likely to enroll in any STEM fields, which is why you have these fields being disproportionately male. Society at large has to encourage women to enter into science at a higher rate than what they currently do, or else, this is never going to solved. Look, things like the G.I.R.L scholarship are a nice idea, but it's not the same as a cultural shift that pushes women into STEM related fields. So really, it's not an industry problem so much as it is a problem with society in general.

 

[DoPo]

In an Industry that consists of GLOBALLY 39,000 people, there is a STATISTICALLY POSSIBLE outcome that doesn't equal 50/50.

Statistically possible? Ha! I'd say 50/50 is just possible in theory at the moment.

I have been going to school for video game design for the past 2 years now and the distinct lack of females sometimes noticeably, in my class there is 20 males to 3 females but of everyone attending in my major it is closer to 27 males to 8 females.

I am currently attending a university studying game design as an undergrad, and will be attending graduate school to study game production. Our program is 95% male.

In my computer science department we have ~10% women. Or somewhere there, more and more seem to be coming each year, so..I dunno the first years now could be up to 15% or so but maybe are not, as more students in general are also enrolling.

 

[Bertylicious]

Ah, but could it not be argued that brand leaders have a responsibility to lead change?

Actually, that may be starting out a bit big. Are we taking it as read that a totally equal society is desirable and that gender has no bearing on a person's creative, intellectual and ... er ... wossname ... effortyness?

Anyway, assuming you aren't all "WOMEN: KNOW YOUR LIMITS!" then surely any large organisation that fails to actively promote gender equality should be regarded by you as failing in its social responsibilities?

Unless we're saying that large organisations don't have social responsibilities, but if that's the case then who does have social responsibilities?

 

[Phasmal]

Game industry/community has woman issues->women are told gaming is a `guy thing` (as well as maths and science)->less women go for education to be in the industry->the industry stays a boy's club->Game industry/community has woman issues.

So, yeah, it is a sign of sexism, but not in the `OMAGAAAAWD CONTROVERSY` way you are making out.
Do I think it should be exactly 50/50? No. But I do think I shouldn't have to be told all the damn time that my opinion on games doesn't matter because it's `male dominated`/`for men`.
I think the attitudes we display do have a wider effect.

For instance, if I was super strict on gender roles and had a daughter who was always clad in pink and discouraged from `boy` things, what's the likelihood she'd grow up to be a games designer vs if I let her explore all things that interested her and didn't try and put her in a `girly` box?

 

[Elijin]

Shouldnt positions be awarded via merit anyway?

I mean making them presenters/project leads/any form of promotion just so there are 'visible women in gaming development' rather than individual merit; Now that is sexism.

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

You know that feeling you get when a woman you have never seen or met before accuses you of raping her, suddenly putting you in a bad light in front of everyone despite you being 100% innocent? And all you can think is "fucking hell, why is this happening to me, that ***** is going to pay for this"?

Yeah, this is what this will probably feel like for Sony and all other developers who have fallen victim to such false accusations....but sadly unlike the above example, the developers CAN'T get back at the accusers due to them being anonymous (or being in large numbers).

does this mean we can;t complain about the treatment of females in games? FUCK NO

Complaining is fine, the problem is when some developers feel pressured enough to give in to those complaints and therefore end up validating the complaints even more. It's pretty much what Sony did here. Were they sexist for making the PS4 presentation with no women? No. But did they go and do something retarded to make those sexist allegations seem like they actually held some weight? Yes, and they called it G.I.R.L. Jesus goddamn christ, what fucking idiots!

And that's why I start really hate certain developers, they just don't know how to react to such criticism because it's such a sensitive subject to so many people. They start APOLOGIZING and typing letters along the lines of "we didn't mean that" and "look we treat women just fine" when that is the last thing they should be doing! They're only adding fuel to the fire, they're only giving politically-correct retards even more of a reason to start complaining that the sky is blue and grass is green because to discrimination.

If I was a game developer and someone came to me calling me a sexist for something that happened in my game that didn't go too well for the female character(s), I would tell them "Thank you, your criticism/feedback is appreciated." That is all, just 1 line.
(Note: They will only complain if a female character has been treated unfairly, not if it happens to a male character. The double standard is already ingrained a hundred fucking layers deep.)
I would NOT apologize, I would NOT say "but I'm not sexist", I would NOT say "but that's not what I meant" and end up being placed on the back foot, as if I have to DEFEND myself from retarded allegations that don't hold a shred of truth in the first place...not to mention allegations made by people who are only seeking attention. Fuck no.
They will only get that one response from me: "Thanks for your feedback." That is all they will ever hear because that is all they are worth. Attention is the last thing these people need, if only more developers and publishers understood that. GRRRRRRR.

 

[Abomination]

No. It isn't.

Anyone who insists otherwise isn't trying to fight sexism but trying to impose some ridiculous and arbitrary 50/50 gender split for every industry.

 

[Happiness Assassin]

It is more of a result of the fact that the target demographics of gamers tend to be male. Sexism however tends to crop up in areas that are generally perceived as male only. I would say that any sexism is the effect, not the cause.

 

[jollybarracuda]

A lack of any gender in any profession is never a sign of sexism. We don't live in a society that legally stops a gender or race from getting any job. There are more male garbage men than women and there are more woman secretaries than men. There's just jobs that have higher numbers of one gender over another, its how life works and it's only people who try and dissect those simple things that want it to be racist for the sake of a heated argument.

At least, my two cents on the matter.