Poll: Is the Washington Redskins team name racist?

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tippy2k2

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I know that everyone here loves the NFL and the Minnesota Viking so this isn't news to anyone here (right? :D) but there my Minnesota Vikings are playing the Washington Redskins today.

Now this isn't the strange part though. Minnesota has a HUGE native american presence and therefore, this happened:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/in-minnesota-native-americans-march-rally-to-protest-redskins-name/2014/11/02/fc38b8d0-6299-11e4-836c-83bc4f26eb67_story.html

MINNEAPOLIS ? Thousands of Native Americans carrying signs, banging drums and chanting ?Who are we? Not your mascot!? converged on the University of Minnesota?s TCF Bank Stadium on Sunday in one of the largest protests in years against the name of the Washington Redskins.

Native Americans, students and other activists staged two large, noisy but peaceful marches to the stadium, where the Redskins are facing the Minnesota Vikings. At the stadium, they were joined by hundreds of other protesters. Minneapolis police put the estimated crowd at 3,200, though it continued to grow as the rally on the south side of the stadium got underway.

The demonstrators were surrounded by banners that read ?Change the Name Now? and ?Stop Racism in the NFL.? One woman brandished a sign that read, ?My Hubby Did Not Fight in Iraq To Be Called A ?Redskin.? ?

Darcie Big Bear, 34, an Ojibwe from Mille Lacs, Minn., had driven two hours to be among the throng. She was wearing a T-shirt that simply read, ?RENAME.?

She and other protesters consider the Redskins moniker a deeply offensive racial slur, while team owner Daniel Snyder argues that it honors Native Americans and has vowed never to change it.

Big Bear called the name ?derogatory toward our people? and said the resistance to changing it is ?ignorance, pure ignorance. They don?t take the time to see how it affects our people.?

Preparations for the protest have been underway for months. A Facebook page ? #NotYourMascot Global Convergence, Rally & March ? indicated that 13,000 people had been invited to the protest.

In 1992, when the Buffalo Bills played Washington in the only Super Bowl hosted in Minnesota, an estimated 3,000 demonstrators turned out at the now-demolished Metrodome to denounce the Redskins name.

Last November, when the Vikings hosted the Redskins for the first time since 2007 at the Metrodome, more than 700 people protested outside. But the debate about the name has grown much more intense over the past year, with a parade of Native American leaders, lawmakers, civil rights activists and sports commentators condemning it.

?We are here to tell the NFL there is no honor in a racial slur,? Rep. Betty McCollum (D-Minn.) told the demonstrators. ?Here in Minnesota we have 11 proud tribal nations, but only 150 years ago, their ancestors, men and women, elders and children, were hunted and murdered for profit. This was a government-funded policy of genocide. The pain of this brutal and shameful history is still with us.?

?If there is any decency in the NFL, the time is now ? change the mascot.?

But some fans were dismissive as they passed the rally on their way into the stadium.

Vikings fan Larry Gibson, 54, a factory worker from St. Paul, paused to watch and expressed his disgust to a Redskins fan beside him.

?It could be the Vikings next, who knows?? Gibson said.

Tony Cansler, who was wearing a custom Redskins jersey along with a Redskins hat, ear muffs and mittens, shook his head. ?I mean, how far do you go with this, you know?? he replied.

Cansler, a 53-year-old maintenance worker, had driven six hours from his home in Iowa to watch his beloved Redskins play. He doesn?t think the majority of Native Americans have a problem with the team?s moniker or logo.

?To me the name is respectful,? he said. ?They should take pride in the name.?

Controversy has swirled around the Vikings game since August because of demands by the University of Minnesota to limit use of the team name and logo inside the stadium.

School officials insisted that they cannot dictate behavior to the Vikings organization, which is paying the university $300,000 a game to use the stadium while its new facility in Minneapolis is being built.

One of the protest?s organizers said he does not believe the demonstration will spill into the stadium or affect the game.

?We don?t look to have any kind of disturbance. If it happens, it won?t be because of the coalition,? said David Glass, president of the Minneapolis-based National Coalition Against Racism in Sports and Media.

Unlike many NFL cities where Native Americans have little presence, their influence in the Twin Cities ? and throughout Minnesota ? is robust.

TCF Bank Stadium was built with the help of a $10 million donation from the Shakopee Mdewakanton Sioux Community. At the time, it was largest private gift to Gophers athletics. The stadium features a plaza that honors Minnesota?s 11 federally recognized tribes.

More than 1,100 students throughout the University of Minnesota system identify themselves as Native Americans. The school has an American Indian Student Cultural Center and a Department of American Indian Studies. According to its Web site, the university has produced more Native American physicians than any other medical school in the country but one.

More than a decade ago, well before the NCAA restricted use of ethnic mascots and nicknames, the university adopted a policy requiring its athletic department to ?make every effort to avoid scheduling home events with schools that use Native American mascots.?

Basically, thousands of people showed up before the game to protest the name because there are some who believe that the name "Redskins" is a racist term that should not be used for a football team.

However, the opinion between Native Americans also seems to be split. For example, the Navajo Nation President Ben Shelly was in the owners suit with the Dan Snyder (the Redskins owner) last week to watch the Redskins play the Cowboys.

I'm curious what other people think about this. Is Redskins a term that is wrong and shouldn't be used? Do you think it's wrong but the Redskins shouldn't be forced to change their name against their will? Do you not see what the big deal is and it's just the PC police running wild?

What are others opinions?
 

Parasondox

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If the term "Redskin" is seen and known as a racial term to offend a group of people, them maybe they should change the teams name. Its like having a team called the "Brooklyn Niggers". No one wants that and those who are shouting "PC gone mad", needs to understand other cultures and not jump the gun.

Just because it happens, doesn't mean it should.

And may I add, those who say "well I'm 1/16 native american, so it doesn't offend me", needs to stop that. I'm 1/20 an arsehole but I don't use that as a defense.
 

Euryalus

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I don't think there's anything objectively wrong with the name no, nor should the Owner be "forced"[footnote] Certainly not actually forced, but I mean more in the vague "influenced by soft power" sense[/footnote] to change the name, but I definitely understand where the protestors are coming from, and would personally like to see the name changed.

It'd be a great chance to come up with a name from mythology or something. Like the piasas (pie-uh-saws) even.
 

Euryalus

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Paradox SuXcess said:
If the term "Redskin" is seen and known as a racial term to offend a group of people, them maybe they should change the teams name. Its like having a team called the "Brooklyn Niggers". No one wants that and those who are shouting "PC gone mad", needs to understand other cultures and not jump the gun.

Just because it happens, doesn't mean it should.
Got a be honest I laughed my ass off at that team name. Could you imagine the conversation surrounding that? XD
 

Parasondox

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T0ad 0f Truth said:
Paradox SuXcess said:
If the term "Redskin" is seen and known as a racial term to offend a group of people, them maybe they should change the teams name. Its like having a team called the "Brooklyn Niggers". No one wants that and those who are shouting "PC gone mad", needs to understand other cultures and not jump the gun.

Just because it happens, doesn't mean it should.
Got a be honest I laughed my ass off at that team name. Could you imagine the conversation surrounding that? XD
"And the Niggers just won the Super Bowl!!" Wow that would make so many people uncomfortable. XD
 

EternallyBored

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Jun 17, 2013
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The while not culturally as severe as some racial epithets, and there is at least some divided opinion amongst the Native American community, although how much of that is genuine versus either paid support on the part of the Redskins or rabble-rousing on the part of the protesters is anyone's guess, it is still a generally derogatory term that exists for a team composed primarily of non-native players and staff.

Like the Daily Show skit said, it's not quite as bad as calling yourself New York Niggers, but its an outdated term that used to be used for a lot of racist justifications, sort of like calling your team the San Francisco Orientals, or the Seattle mulattos, or the Portland Japs, it's largely a descriptor of race or nationality, but it was one that faded out of use due to its accumulation of negative connotations over time.

Although, the title of this thread seems a bit off, I don't think the team name makes the whole team racist, maybe the owner and managers, but the players and lower level staff don't have much power over that.
 

tippy2k2

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EternallyBored said:
Although, the title of this thread seems a bit off, I don't think the team name makes the whole team racist, maybe the owner and managers, but the players and lower level staff don't have much power over that.
That was my bad. I thought I put "name" in there but evidently I did not. I have corrected the title to reflect this.
 

Lieju

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Why is it even called that?
Just change it.

T0ad 0f Truth said:
Paradox SuXcess said:
If the term "Redskin" is seen and known as a racial term to offend a group of people, them maybe they should change the teams name. Its like having a team called the "Brooklyn Niggers". No one wants that and those who are shouting "PC gone mad", needs to understand other cultures and not jump the gun.

Just because it happens, doesn't mean it should.
Got a be honest I laughed my ass off at that team name. Could you imagine the conversation surrounding that? XD
There is actually a Finnish journalist association called 'urheiluneekerit', which translates to 'sportsniggers', or perhaps 'sportsnegroes', neekeri is definitely a derogative.
And they can't agree on whether to change it. They do call themselves 'hunns' though, which is better, I guess?

It comes from dirty faces, which doesn't really make it better. Hey, let's call dirty people by the name used to degrade people with black skin colour? Also some of their magazines have had definitely racist caricatures of black people, portraying them as cannibals etc.
 

Happiness Assassin

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I just want to know how Chief Wahoo has survived this long?


On the subject of the Redskins, I have a question: would anyone be able to unironically refer to someone as a redskin without being racist? I don't think so.
 

Euryalus

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Lieju said:
Why is it even called that?
Just change it.

T0ad 0f Truth said:
Paradox SuXcess said:
If the term "Redskin" is seen and known as a racial term to offend a group of people, them maybe they should change the teams name. Its like having a team called the "Brooklyn Niggers". No one wants that and those who are shouting "PC gone mad", needs to understand other cultures and not jump the gun.

Just because it happens, doesn't mean it should.
Got a be honest I laughed my ass off at that team name. Could you imagine the conversation surrounding that? XD
There is actually a Finnish journalist association called 'urheiluneekerit', which translates to 'sportsniggers', or perhaps 'sportsnegroes', neekeri is definitely a derogative.
And they can't agree on whether to change it. They do call themselves 'hunns' though, which is better, I guess?

It comes from dirty faces, which doesn't really make it better. Hey, let's call dirty people by the name used to degrade people with black skin colour? Also some of their magazines have had definitely racist caricatures of black people, portraying them as cannibals etc.
Really? Wow...

Not nearly as bad, but in the store here, the entire aisle for hip hop and rap music is just called black music. As if it's just for black people or something.
 

Phasmal

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Jun 10, 2011
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Well... it IS a pretty racist name. I'm surprised that it hasn't been changed before.

It doesn't sound respectful to me at all. I don't know much about it, but I'd certainly be embarrassed to associate with it.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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You mean is a team name based on a racial slur racist?

Yeah, I don't even know why that would be disputed.

Should they change it? Honestly, I don't care if they do. But yeah, they probably should.
 

Therumancer

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tippy2k2 said:
I know that everyone here loves the NFL and the Minnesota Viking so this isn't news to anyone here (right? :D) but there my Minnesota Vikings are playing the Washington Redskins today.

Now this isn't the strange part though. Minnesota has a HUGE native american presence and therefore, this happened:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/in-minnesota-native-americans-march-rally-to-protest-redskins-name/2014/11/02/fc38b8d0-6299-11e4-836c-83bc4f26eb67_story.html

MINNEAPOLIS ? Thousands of Native Americans carrying signs, banging drums and chanting ?Who are we? Not your mascot!? converged on the University of Minnesota?s TCF Bank Stadium on Sunday in one of the largest protests in years against the name of the Washington Redskins.

Native Americans, students and other activists staged two large, noisy but peaceful marches to the stadium, where the Redskins are facing the Minnesota Vikings. At the stadium, they were joined by hundreds of other protesters. Minneapolis police put the estimated crowd at 3,200, though it continued to grow as the rally on the south side of the stadium got underway.

The demonstrators were surrounded by banners that read ?Change the Name Now? and ?Stop Racism in the NFL.? One woman brandished a sign that read, ?My Hubby Did Not Fight in Iraq To Be Called A ?Redskin.? ?

Darcie Big Bear, 34, an Ojibwe from Mille Lacs, Minn., had driven two hours to be among the throng. She was wearing a T-shirt that simply read, ?RENAME.?

She and other protesters consider the Redskins moniker a deeply offensive racial slur, while team owner Daniel Snyder argues that it honors Native Americans and has vowed never to change it.

Big Bear called the name ?derogatory toward our people? and said the resistance to changing it is ?ignorance, pure ignorance. They don?t take the time to see how it affects our people.?

Preparations for the protest have been underway for months. A Facebook page ? #NotYourMascot Global Convergence, Rally & March ? indicated that 13,000 people had been invited to the protest.

In 1992, when the Buffalo Bills played Washington in the only Super Bowl hosted in Minnesota, an estimated 3,000 demonstrators turned out at the now-demolished Metrodome to denounce the Redskins name.

Last November, when the Vikings hosted the Redskins for the first time since 2007 at the Metrodome, more than 700 people protested outside. But the debate about the name has grown much more intense over the past year, with a parade of Native American leaders, lawmakers, civil rights activists and sports commentators condemning it.

?We are here to tell the NFL there is no honor in a racial slur,? Rep. Betty McCollum (D-Minn.) told the demonstrators. ?Here in Minnesota we have 11 proud tribal nations, but only 150 years ago, their ancestors, men and women, elders and children, were hunted and murdered for profit. This was a government-funded policy of genocide. The pain of this brutal and shameful history is still with us.?

?If there is any decency in the NFL, the time is now ? change the mascot.?

But some fans were dismissive as they passed the rally on their way into the stadium.

Vikings fan Larry Gibson, 54, a factory worker from St. Paul, paused to watch and expressed his disgust to a Redskins fan beside him.

?It could be the Vikings next, who knows?? Gibson said.

Tony Cansler, who was wearing a custom Redskins jersey along with a Redskins hat, ear muffs and mittens, shook his head. ?I mean, how far do you go with this, you know?? he replied.

Cansler, a 53-year-old maintenance worker, had driven six hours from his home in Iowa to watch his beloved Redskins play. He doesn?t think the majority of Native Americans have a problem with the team?s moniker or logo.

?To me the name is respectful,? he said. ?They should take pride in the name.?

Controversy has swirled around the Vikings game since August because of demands by the University of Minnesota to limit use of the team name and logo inside the stadium.

School officials insisted that they cannot dictate behavior to the Vikings organization, which is paying the university $300,000 a game to use the stadium while its new facility in Minneapolis is being built.

One of the protest?s organizers said he does not believe the demonstration will spill into the stadium or affect the game.

?We don?t look to have any kind of disturbance. If it happens, it won?t be because of the coalition,? said David Glass, president of the Minneapolis-based National Coalition Against Racism in Sports and Media.

Unlike many NFL cities where Native Americans have little presence, their influence in the Twin Cities ? and throughout Minnesota ? is robust.

TCF Bank Stadium was built with the help of a $10 million donation from the Shakopee Mdewakanton Sioux Community. At the time, it was largest private gift to Gophers athletics. The stadium features a plaza that honors Minnesota?s 11 federally recognized tribes.

More than 1,100 students throughout the University of Minnesota system identify themselves as Native Americans. The school has an American Indian Student Cultural Center and a Department of American Indian Studies. According to its Web site, the university has produced more Native American physicians than any other medical school in the country but one.

More than a decade ago, well before the NCAA restricted use of ethnic mascots and nicknames, the university adopted a policy requiring its athletic department to ?make every effort to avoid scheduling home events with schools that use Native American mascots.?

Basically, thousands of people showed up before the game to protest the name because there are some who believe that the name "Redskins" is a racist term that should not be used for a football team.

However, the opinion between Native Americans also seems to be split. For example, the Navajo Nation President Ben Shelly was in the owners suit with the Dan Snyder (the Redskins owner) last week to watch the Redskins play the Cowboys.

I'm curious what other people think about this. Is Redskins a term that is wrong and shouldn't be used? Do you think it's wrong but the Redskins shouldn't be forced to change their name against their will? Do you not see what the big deal is and it's just the PC police running wild?

What are others opinions?
I don't think it's offensive personally, and their logo is actually pretty dignified, unlike say The Cleveland Indians. In my experience, it seems to mostly be pale white liberals who get upset about this, I've worked for two tribes and when the subject came up the actual Native Americans seemed to be in support, or neutral and not caring. That said the two tribes I worked for (Mohegan and Mashantucket Pequot) weren't really into the whole "protest culture" of some other tribes, who do pretty much anything they can to get attention and oppose anything they can for the sake of doing so. It doesn't surprise me that the number might go as high as 50% being against it depending on where the survey was, but really most Native Americans I've met (a lot, from different tribes) have been pretty laid back, and frankly incredibly critical of their own people. To be honest I think right now white guilt accounts for more of the traditional portrayal of "native American issues" than you see coming from most of the reservations as I pretty much pointed out.

At the end of the day "Redskin" is a descriptive term as is "Paleskin" and so on. It entirely depends on context and how it's being used, so really there isn't much of a problem here.

That said people have been going on about "The Redskins" for many years now, and I don't expect it to change. To me it's not a major issue, and barely worth talking about. A racial slur only matters if the people it addresses are offended by it for whatever reason, and to me it seems most Native Americans aren't, or don't care enough, so really nobody else should either.
 

tippy2k2

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DANGER- MUST SILENCE said:
Now, I've come around. I don't support the idea of forcing a change (and I see no legal apparatus which would enable that change to be forced, so I don't see why this is even being discussed), but I do think it's time that the Redskins engaged in the discussion instead of hiding from it.
The United States wouldn't have legal ground to force them to change but the NFL could force them to change the name if they wanted to.

The reason it's being put in the mix is that a lot of people who are against the name have attempted to put pressure on Roger Goodell (the NFL Commissioner; aka the guy who runs the NFL) to force the Redskins to change their name; something that would be in his power if he felt that it was a "Detriment to the league".
 

tippy2k2

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DANGER- MUST SILENCE said:
I think it's inaccurate then to describe that as "force". The NFL is a commercial entity providing a paid-for entertainment product. If part of their product fails to entertain the people paying for it because it offends them, and enough people are willing to choose to take their business elsewhere as a result, that's not forcing a change, that's simple business.

I'm extremely skeptical of narratives that attempt to cast progressive changes willingly adopted by people in leadership positions as "forced" for no better reason than because there is a regressive population that disagrees with them.
I suppose it could be argued semantics but I disagree with the "it's not forced" thing.

Dan Snyder is the owner of the team. He is ADAMANT [http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9259866/daniel-snyder-says-washington-redskins-never-change-team-name] that he will not change the name of the team and right now, it is strictly up to him. However, he could eventually be over-ruled by the league owners (and Goodell) if they believe that the name is causing enough people to abandon watching the NFL.
 

Vigormortis

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If I may, I'd like to pose a few counter questions.
Seattle Niggers
Minneapolis Chinks
New York Crackers
Chicago Wetbacks

* Would you be okay with the names of any of those teams if they existed?

* Would you be okay with them if they'd had those names for decades?

* Would you think it extreme if people only now started demanding the names be changed?


If you answer no to any of those, then you shouldn't be comfortable with the team keeping "Redskins".

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Now all that said, I'm not sure I'd say that they should be forced to change it. I'd certainly like to see them do so. Or, in the very least, engage in the fucking discussion for once instead of hiding from it. I'm not convinced they should be forced.

Though, since we're on the topic, how about we discuss trying to convince the Cleveland Indians to change their logo...

[sub]For clarity: The 'you' in those questions is not aimed at any specific person.[/sub]