Poll: Is zero a number? (Read before voting)

[righthead]

One last question. If you can answer this i'll give it all up, and present you all the coveted "You win this drug on debate trophy". XD

What is 0's value.
Thats the only question i'll ask,
and i only want your final answer.

0's value (funny you should say it has a value, like all numbers) is contained within the quotation marks:
""
Or, if you want to be pissy and say I didn't answer your question (which I did [wanna argue about that?]) how about this:
0 = 0

Nope.
As defined by the others, and theyer mathemation, its definition is nil.

What is the defintion of nil?

that's why I'm not answering until a get a non-recursive definition of the value of 1

 

[kouriichi]

One last question. If you can answer this i'll give it all up, and present you all the coveted "You win this drug on debate trophy". XD

What is 0's value.
Thats the only question i'll ask,
and i only want your final answer.

Are we talking of basic algebra, set theory, propositional logic, abstract algebra, lattice theory, category theory, recursion theory or something else?

Why? are there different rules for them all?

if so, that means that my idea of 0 having a different use then numbers can be true.
So by asking that and answering it, you could seal your fate~

 

[righthead]

What whats the proof its irrational?
What is the fact that says it has to be irrational?

Read the wikipedia article [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_that_%CF%80_is_irrational] that was linked above, it presents at least two full proofs via reductio ad absurdum.

[small]It must be noted, however, that neither The Escapist, any member of The Escapist staff or community, nor any affiliates of The Escapist can be held responsible if you fail to comprehend, understand, or read the article or any proofs therein. Furthermore, none of the aforementioned parties are in any way, manner, or form obligated to provide an education required to comprehend, understand, and/or read the above article. Void where prohibited. Not for children under 13.[/small]

I think there was some confusion as to what exactly reductio ad absurdum meant. Hopefully I cleared it up in a previous post.

 

[kouriichi]

One last question. If you can answer this i'll give it all up, and present you all the coveted "You win this drug on debate trophy". XD

What is 0's value.
Thats the only question i'll ask,
and i only want your final answer.

0's value (funny you should say it has a value, like all numbers) is contained within the quotation marks:
""
Or, if you want to be pissy and say I didn't answer your question (which I did [wanna argue about that?]) how about this:
0 = 0

Nope.
As defined by the others, and theyer mathemation, its definition is nil.

What is the defintion of nil?

that's why I'm not answering until a get a non-recursive definition of the value of 1

See, theres the problem with your definition of 0
XD you cant prove it without proving something un-realted to 0 itself.

 

[Nylarathotep]

One last question. If you can answer this i'll give it all up, and present you all the coveted "You win this drug on debate trophy". XD

What is 0's value.
Thats the only question i'll ask,
and i only want your final answer.

0's value (funny you should say it has a value, like all numbers) is contained within the quotation marks:
""
Or, if you want to be pissy and say I didn't answer your question (which I did [wanna argue about that?]) how about this:
0 = 0

Nope.
As defined by the others, and theyer mathemation, its definition is nil.
Not likely to happen, given that everything he has supplied so far has roughly amounted to 0.
What is the defintion of nil?

that's why I'm not answering until a get a non-recursive definition of the value of 1

Not likely, given that what he has supplied so far equates roughly to 0.

 

[kouriichi]

One last question. If you can answer this i'll give it all up, and present you all the coveted "You win this drug on debate trophy". XD

What is 0's value.
Thats the only question i'll ask,
and i only want your final answer.

0's value (funny you should say it has a value, like all numbers) is contained within the quotation marks:
""
Or, if you want to be pissy and say I didn't answer your question (which I did [wanna argue about that?]) how about this:
0 = 0

Nope.
As defined by the others, and theyer mathemation, its definition is nil.
Not likely to happen, given that everything he has supplied so far has roughly amounted to 0.
What is the defintion of nil?

that's why I'm not answering until a get a non-recursive definition of the value of 1

XD
so your entire arguement rests on the idea you can prove me wrong by proving something else right?

 

[righthead]

u

One last question. If you can answer this i'll give it all up, and present you all the coveted "You win this drug on debate trophy". XD

What is 0's value.
Thats the only question i'll ask,
and i only want your final answer.

0's value (funny you should say it has a value, like all numbers) is contained within the quotation marks:
""
Or, if you want to be pissy and say I didn't answer your question (which I did [wanna argue about that?]) how about this:
0 = 0

Nope.
As defined by the others, and theyer mathemation, its definition is nil.

What is the defintion of nil?

that's why I'm not answering until a get a non-recursive definition of the value of 1

See, theres the problem with your definition of 0
XD you cant prove it without proving something un-realted to 0 itself.

that is the case with all unobservable phenomena, try again. And I was asking so I knew what you meant by value.

 

[kouriichi]

One last question. If you can answer this i'll give it all up, and present you all the coveted "You win this drug on debate trophy". XD

What is 0's value.
Thats the only question i'll ask,
and i only want your final answer.

0's value (funny you should say it has a value, like all numbers) is contained within the quotation marks:
""
Or, if you want to be pissy and say I didn't answer your question (which I did [wanna argue about that?]) how about this:
0 = 0

Nope.
As defined by the others, and theyer mathemation, its definition is nil.
Not likely to happen, given that everything he has supplied so far has roughly amounted to 0.
What is the defintion of nil?

that's why I'm not answering until a get a non-recursive definition of the value of 1

Not likely, given that what he has supplied so far equates roughly to 0.

Here you go
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_(number)
Theres the deffinition on 1.

 

[Nylarathotep]

One last question. If you can answer this i'll give it all up, and present you all the coveted "You win this drug on debate trophy". XD

What is 0's value.
Thats the only question i'll ask,
and i only want your final answer.

0's value (funny you should say it has a value, like all numbers) is contained within the quotation marks:
""
Or, if you want to be pissy and say I didn't answer your question (which I did [wanna argue about that?]) how about this:
0 = 0

Nope.
As defined by the others, and theyer mathemation, its definition is nil.
Not likely to happen, given that everything he has supplied so far has roughly amounted to 0.
What is the defintion of nil?

that's why I'm not answering until a get a non-recursive definition of the value of 1

XD
so your entire arguement rests on the idea you can prove me wrong by proving something else right?

Nope, my whole argument rests on shut up and bite me.
I'm not arguing because I want to win this argument, I'm arguing because you're annoying.
And I was talking to someone other than you, but the text didn't get posted, which has been fixed, nosy boy.

 

[kouriichi]

u

One last question. If you can answer this i'll give it all up, and present you all the coveted "You win this drug on debate trophy". XD

What is 0's value.
Thats the only question i'll ask,
and i only want your final answer.

0's value (funny you should say it has a value, like all numbers) is contained within the quotation marks:
""
Or, if you want to be pissy and say I didn't answer your question (which I did [wanna argue about that?]) how about this:
0 = 0

Nope.
As defined by the others, and theyer mathemation, its definition is nil.

What is the defintion of nil?

that's why I'm not answering until a get a non-recursive definition of the value of 1

See, theres the problem with your definition of 0
XD you cant prove it without proving something un-realted to 0 itself.

that is the case with all unobservable phenomena, try again. And I was asking so I knew what you meant by value.

"Quantity is a kind of property which exists as magnitude or multitude"
That is value when it comes to numbers

 

[kouriichi]

One last question. If you can answer this i'll give it all up, and present you all the coveted "You win this drug on debate trophy". XD

What is 0's value.
Thats the only question i'll ask,
and i only want your final answer.

0's value (funny you should say it has a value, like all numbers) is contained within the quotation marks:
""
Or, if you want to be pissy and say I didn't answer your question (which I did [wanna argue about that?]) how about this:
0 = 0

Nope.
As defined by the others, and theyer mathemation, its definition is nil.
Not likely to happen, given that everything he has supplied so far has roughly amounted to 0.
What is the defintion of nil?

that's why I'm not answering until a get a non-recursive definition of the value of 1

XD
so your entire arguement rests on the idea you can prove me wrong by proving something else right?

Nope, my whole argument rests on shut up and bite me.
I'm not arguing because I want to win this argument, I'm arguing because you're annoying.
And I was talking to someone other than you, but the text didn't get posted, which has been fixed, nosy boy.

x3 raaaage?

 

[schiZm22]

There are only two values numbers can have: nothing and something. All non-zero numbers are a variation on something. Nothing is defined as having not having something. Zero has no something. Therefore the value of zero is nothing, which is still a value.

Wow, that was really tautological, but I guess it gets that way when trying to prove mathematical concepts that exist because they do.

 

[righthead]

One last question. If you can answer this i'll give it all up, and present you all the coveted "You win this drug on debate trophy". XD

What is 0's value.
Thats the only question i'll ask,
and i only want your final answer.

0's value (funny you should say it has a value, like all numbers) is contained within the quotation marks:
""
Or, if you want to be pissy and say I didn't answer your question (which I did [wanna argue about that?]) how about this:
0 = 0

Nope.
As defined by the others, and theyer mathemation, its definition is nil.
Not likely to happen, given that everything he has supplied so far has roughly amounted to 0.
What is the defintion of nil?

that's why I'm not answering until a get a non-recursive definition of the value of 1

Not likely, given that what he has supplied so far equates roughly to 0.

Here you go
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_(number)
Theres the deffinition on 1.

True, but you can go to wikipedia for the definition of 0 as well.
Also I see no mention of a value.

 

[Nylarathotep]

One last question. If you can answer this i'll give it all up, and present you all the coveted "You win this drug on debate trophy". XD

What is 0's value.
Thats the only question i'll ask,
and i only want your final answer.

0's value (funny you should say it has a value, like all numbers) is contained within the quotation marks:
""
Or, if you want to be pissy and say I didn't answer your question (which I did [wanna argue about that?]) how about this:
0 = 0

Nope.
As defined by the others, and theyer mathemation, its definition is nil.
Not likely to happen, given that everything he has supplied so far has roughly amounted to 0.
What is the defintion of nil?

that's why I'm not answering until a get a non-recursive definition of the value of 1

Not likely, given that what he has supplied so far equates roughly to 0.

Here you go
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_(number)
Theres the deffinition on 1.

to quote your ultimate definitive source (wikipedia):
"1 (one) is a number, numeral, and the name of the glyph representing that number. It represents a single entity, the unit of counting or measurement."
Says right there that it's representative. 1 is not tangeable, as you keep insisting. It's an idea, which expresses a simplistic quantity.

 

[kouriichi]

One last question. If you can answer this i'll give it all up, and present you all the coveted "You win this drug on debate trophy". XD

What is 0's value.
Thats the only question i'll ask,
and i only want your final answer.

0's value (funny you should say it has a value, like all numbers) is contained within the quotation marks:
""
Or, if you want to be pissy and say I didn't answer your question (which I did [wanna argue about that?]) how about this:
0 = 0

Nope.
As defined by the others, and theyer mathemation, its definition is nil.
Not likely to happen, given that everything he has supplied so far has roughly amounted to 0.
What is the defintion of nil?

that's why I'm not answering until a get a non-recursive definition of the value of 1

Not likely, given that what he has supplied so far equates roughly to 0.

Here you go
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_(number)
Theres the deffinition on 1.

True, but you can go there for the definition of 0 as well.
Also I see no mention of a value.

This is the "concept of value"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantity
gogogo!
I want an answer.

 

[Coldie]

One last question. If you can answer this i'll give it all up, and present you all the coveted "You win this drug on debate trophy". XD

What is 0's value.
Thats the only question i'll ask,
and i only want your final answer.

Zero as additive identity is defined as: Value A, such that A + x = x for any value of x.
Zero as absorbing element is defined as: Value A, such that A * x = A for any value of x.

There are some more complicated definitions, but finding them will be left as an exercise for the reader.

 

[Sparcrypt]

Name one single trait that any other number has that zero does not and you have an argument. You can add, subtract, divide or multiply with 0, just like any other number.

What you're trying to do is philosophically argue away a mathmatical fact by coming up with alternate terms of expressing things then claming that because you have done this, the actual term isn't valid.

Exmaple: "I can also say no apples are in my room. Is 'no' a number? Absolutely not."

If I have 6 apples in my room, I might say 'There are 6 apples in my room' or I might say 'There are half a dozen apples in my room'. Half a dozen is not a number. So by your logic, neither is 6.

Isn't logic fun?

 

[kouriichi]

One last question. If you can answer this i'll give it all up, and present you all the coveted "You win this drug on debate trophy". XD

What is 0's value.
Thats the only question i'll ask,
and i only want your final answer.

0's value (funny you should say it has a value, like all numbers) is contained within the quotation marks:
""
Or, if you want to be pissy and say I didn't answer your question (which I did [wanna argue about that?]) how about this:
0 = 0

Nope.
As defined by the others, and theyer mathemation, its definition is nil.
Not likely to happen, given that everything he has supplied so far has roughly amounted to 0.
What is the defintion of nil?

that's why I'm not answering until a get a non-recursive definition of the value of 1

Not likely, given that what he has supplied so far equates roughly to 0.

Here you go
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_(number)
Theres the deffinition on 1.

to quote your ultimate definitive source (wikipedia):
"1 (one) is a number, numeral, and the name of the glyph representing that number. It represents a single entity, the unit of counting or measurement."
Says right there that it's representative. 1 is not tangeable, as you keep insisting. It's an idea, which expresses a simplistic quantity.

its tangable. Because its a single entity. The "unit of counting or measurement."
Thats more then tangable. There can be "a single entity of rice" infront of me.

 

[righthead]

One last question. If you can answer this i'll give it all up, and present you all the coveted "You win this drug on debate trophy". XD

What is 0's value.
Thats the only question i'll ask,
and i only want your final answer.

0's value (funny you should say it has a value, like all numbers) is contained within the quotation marks:
""
Or, if you want to be pissy and say I didn't answer your question (which I did [wanna argue about that?]) how about this:
0 = 0

Nope.
As defined by the others, and theyer mathemation, its definition is nil.
Not likely to happen, given that everything he has supplied so far has roughly amounted to 0.
What is the defintion of nil?

that's why I'm not answering until a get a non-recursive definition of the value of 1

Not likely, given that what he has supplied so far equates roughly to 0.

Here you go
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_(number)
Theres the deffinition on 1.

True, but you can go there for the definition of 0 as well.
Also I see no mention of a value.

This is the "concept of value"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantity
gogogo!
I want an answer.

by that definition, wouldn't the value of 1 be 1? if not, what is it?

 

[kouriichi]

One last question. If you can answer this i'll give it all up, and present you all the coveted "You win this drug on debate trophy". XD

What is 0's value.
Thats the only question i'll ask,
and i only want your final answer.

0's value (funny you should say it has a value, like all numbers) is contained within the quotation marks:
""
Or, if you want to be pissy and say I didn't answer your question (which I did [wanna argue about that?]) how about this:
0 = 0

Nope.
As defined by the others, and theyer mathemation, its definition is nil.
Not likely to happen, given that everything he has supplied so far has roughly amounted to 0.
What is the defintion of nil?

that's why I'm not answering until a get a non-recursive definition of the value of 1

Not likely, given that what he has supplied so far equates roughly to 0.

Here you go
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_(number)
Theres the deffinition on 1.

True, but you can go there for the definition of 0 as well.
Also I see no mention of a value.

This is the "concept of value"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantity
gogogo!
I want an answer.

by that definition, wouldn't the value of 1 be 1? if not, what is it?

yes. the value of one by definition is one. "It represents a single entity." i.e. One.