... He's ok.
I liked his thing about CoD, but I have a feeling he could get very old very quickly.
I liked his thing about CoD, but I have a feeling he could get very old very quickly.
yikes man.. you have a point but 'ridicule' is a bit much isn't it?Ian Caronia said:In conclusion: Jim whateverhisnameis is a hack and deserves no less than ridicule until he learns how to be a real journalist. Doesn't matter if he's only on the net. He's getting paid to be a journalist, and thus he should do his job correctly instead of being the "edgy" equivalent to Fox News.
I would say that it's not bad because his production values suck, but rather because it is made so evident in the show that they are so low.Kahunaburger said:And his production values suck.
The video description state that the video is made with another piece of work in mind:Ian Caronia said:Why did you show the video description?kroldok said:In the Video description:Ian Caronia said:*SNIP*
ALSO! This has nothing to do with nationality. This has to do with a genuine lack of talent and a lack of tact. Put it to you this way: Would a real journalist who has integrity, talent, and tact take time out to explain their POV and address the topic?
Last time I checked, heads don't explode in warfare games, especially COD. And it was a pop because of the audio and camera equipment being used. Guns don't just sound like pops when firing (especially in a firefight) because, well...that's just obvious. And real war has people screaming. A lot. And taking shots from behind cover.
...Did he just say real violence is boring? Is he trying to go by just this footage alone?
Wait... What the hell? He's PARODYING the SUICIDE?!
Thank you, Jim. I'm sure that trying to shock viewers with such footage was TOTALLY NECESSARY instead of, I don't know, thinking of how to explain yourself clearly and credibly...which you still failed to do.
You hack.
This week, Jim Sterling talks about Leigh Alexander's "Who Cheers For War?" (erroneously named in the video because of unscripted bollocks) and counters the claim that gamers want realistic violence.
"_There is never a reason to show footage like the one he used other than for shock value."No, it's not subjective in this case. The only reason any grim footage is ever used is to A) Show people what the assailant looks like so they are aware/asking for help apprehending a criminal or B) Shock value. And, unlike showing the tapes of a robbery or something, that's what using snuff footage is for: Shock value (and it is snuff footage because someone literally dies on camera, as opposed to a snuff film where it's a film featuring actors/randoms literally dieing on camera. Just clearing that up).From the video:
"Were you at all disturbed by that? if so congratulations you have not been desensitized to real voilence, videogame violence: yes, real violence: no."
"Videogames are not like real life, and i for one am very very glad of that"
"They (gamers) don't want a real iraq war situation, because not only is it disturbing on a true level, it's boring".
Yes, he is highly inflammatory in his presentation, and there are other ways of making this point (wether or not they are better is subjective).
_There is never a reason to show footage like the one he used other than for shock value. Fact. Why? Because there's nothing to be gained from it other than the shock of the audience.
_Why is it not subjective that there are better ways to go about proving a point? Because good journalism doesn't rely on cheap tricks like that one to prove it's point. Any good journalist worth their salt can explain their opinion and/or point with words. You can even show diagrams, statistics, or better yet related footage. Video game footage! That snuff footage had nothing to do with gaming or violence, he just used it to illustrate his point when he could've done the same thing with average COD footage.
*shows random COD videogame footage*
"Does this feel real to you? No? Because at the end of the day it isn't. Though we might not realize it while we're 'in the zone', all the clipping, graphical inconsistencies, the way your character getting shot in the foot somehow makes your eyes get covered in jelly, and even just the fact that we're really only sitting in a chair with a controller or keyboard in our hands is all information that's fed to our brains to disconnect fictional violence with real violence. We don't want true death. We don't want to see real people die just as much as we don't want to get shot! Just because we want more visceral action that doesn't equate to a lust for realistic war. As much as gamers talk about killing and such, we also enjoy outrageous deaths and love watching bad ragdoll effects of a falling body. Those things are what separate us from murder-lovers. Yes, we want to blow a man's brains out with our high-powered rifle. But more importantly, we want the ability to turn off the bloodshed at some point. Maybe go off and eat some Cheetos or watch porn. In my case both.
_That little power button? That's what divides murder from playtime, and it's what prevents sane gamers from thinking real murder is cool."
See? All dialogue. The point was explained as clearly as the individual (in this case, me) thought they could, showed no actual rage and even had one or two attempts at humor (be they successful or failures). More importantly, the point was explained without any cheap gimmicks, without the manipulation of the audience. Without any snuff footage.
Also watch the ending of the video again. Watch what he does. See how he parodies the real suicide he JUST used for shock value? He thinks he's being funny. The fact that he thinks parodying the snuff footage would be funny immediately discredits his argument because it shows a callous disregard for the weight and reality of the death (the reason he used it in the first place). He shows he doesn't care about the death and can make a joke of it. BAD journalism. BAD journalist. And since he's supposedly known for being "funny but edgy", you can be safe in assuming he only did that last bit because he was serious the whole video and wanted a joke, and to show, yet again, how "edgy" and "unapologetic" he is.
This is proof that he is a hack.
Firstly, it's ignorance to say all violence in videogames is over the top or cartoonish. Heavy Rain. LA Noire. The SMT games (magic is sometimes involved, but a character's death has weight and is neither funny or cartoonish). Red Dead Redemption. I can go on, but I don't have to.[/quote]The point I see here being that real violence is disturbing and scary, the word boring certainly seems ill placed here but when taken within the context of the video where he clearly states that videogame violence is over the top and cartoonish, this signifies to me a use of the word to not mean it's dull but simply unwanted, that most people who play violent videogames do not achieve hard-ons, or laugh in glee when they watch the news showing the latest natural disaster, or pictures of actual war-victims, I believe it's not a case of boring as in: "I can watch this all day and I'm not bothered", but rather a case of boring as in: "I derive no pleasure or excitement from this whatsoever", and there is a difference.
Secondly: The word "boring" does indeed mean that you're not deriving pleasure from it, but the term is not used in describing something horrible/horrific/shocking. The reason is because...well...you're not bored when you're shocked. Or horrified. You're too busy being shocked! ...Or horrified!
Boring- monotonous, tedious, tiresome, humdrum
To call actual death, especially war, humdrum is not only factually incorrect but also insulting to all those who have experienced war or the loss of a loved one. And, if you want to go in another direction, you can even say it's insulting to those who died, but that would be less fact and more opinion.
_Guy made a huge feus pax there and he stuck with it thinking he was saying something smart. In actuality he was making himself look even more so like an insensitive and ignorant individual.
Firstly: nowhere in the video does he state that death in videogames have never had emotional value(nor did I), it is however very obvious that it is not real (cartoonish), even when there is a strong emotional context, and people who play videogames for the most part know this.
Secondly: to note here is that he did not call it 'humdrum' he called it boring, and Dictionary.com does not result in humdrum as a definition but rather a synonym, and they are different (witch is not to say that my source is better than yours, but they are apparently different). What source did you use?
(Sidenote: english is not my first language, and it struck me there is a chance that the value of common terms used in an uncommon fashion is easier for me, as I am not used to hearing them in daily speech and therefore have "big-picture-hearing" perhaps placing emphasis on the subject as a whole, and interpreting single words from within the context to a greater degree)
Yes, opinion and feeling is subjective. The use (and in this case misuse) of snuff footage for shock value is not. It shows a lack of ingenuity from the journalist for having to resort to snuff footage, especially when it isn't even part of the topic (man committing suicide =/= war and the desire for real violence in videogaming), and to parody it at the end shows, as I said, a callous disregard for the death you tried to use to illustrate your point. All of that shows that it is not only unnecessary (fact) but also used wrongly, since it makes Jim look like an ignorant hypocrite for showing a death, saying it's not something people react to with anything other than horror, and then making fun of it. This is fact. Opinion would be "I think he's an asshole for using that footage". Fact is "He made himself look ignorant and hypocritical for not only including it, but misusing it and ruining his point with the crude parody he thought was funny."kroldok said:"_There is never a reason to show footage like the one he used other than for shock value."
True, it is shock value, but that does not mean he is wrong, and I would maintain it is pure and simple fact that it is indeed subjective.
*snip*
Your argument that 'real journalists' don't use shock value sounds strange to me, I see shock value on the news all the time (case in point the footage used by Sterling). What exactly do you mean by 'real journalists'?
Okay, firstly cartoonish does mean it's not real, however the word is used when talking about something that is outrageously or comically unreal. Jim was making this point, which showed he didn't know what he was talking about because nothing that has "strong emotional context" can be "cartoonish". That cartoon cyote falling down a canyon? Cartoonish. Elmer Fud getting blown up and then seeing his spirit rising into the sky while riding a cloud and playing a harp? Cartoonish. Ethan Mars cutting off his finger? The death of [spoiler not said] in LA Noire? Any of the main characters' deaths (during the game's plot not gameplay) in Persona 4? Not cartoonish.Firstly: nowhere in the video does he state that death in videogames have never had emotional value(nor did I), it is however very obvious that it is not real (cartoonish), even when there is a strong emotional context, and people who play videogames for the most part know this.
FreeDictionary.Com:Secondly: to note here is that he did not call it 'humdrum' he called it boring, and Dictionary.com does not result in humdrum as a definition but rather a synonym, and they are different (witch is not to say that my source is better than yours, but they are apparently different). What source did you use?
That...makes a lot of sense.(Sidenote: english is not my first language, and it struck me there is a chance that the value of common terms used in an uncommon fashion is easier for me, as I am not used to hearing them in daily speech and therefore have "big-picture-hearing" perhaps placing emphasis on the subject as a whole, and interpreting single words from within the context to a greater degree)
Ian Caronia said:Yes, opinion and feeling is subjective. The use (and in this case misuse) of snuff footage for shock value is not. It shows a lack of ingenuity from the journalist for having to resort to snuff footage, especially when it isn't even part of the topic (man committing suicide =/= war and the desire for real violence in videogaming), and to parody it at the end shows, as I said, a callous disregard for the death you tried to use to illustrate your point.kroldok said:"_There is never a reason to show footage like the one he used other than for shock value."
True, it is shock value, but that does not mean he is wrong, and I would maintain it is pure and simple fact that it is indeed subjective.
*snip*
Your argument that 'real journalists' don't use shock value sounds strange to me, I see shock value on the news all the time (case in point the footage used by Sterling). What exactly do you mean by 'real journalists'?
All of that shows that it is not only unnecessary (fact) but also used wrongly, since it makes Jim look like an ignorant hypocrite for showing a death, saying it's not something people react to with anything other than horror, and then making fun of it. This is fact. Opinion would be "I think he's an asshole for using that footage". Fact is "He made himself look ignorant and hypocritical for not only including it, but misusing it and ruining his point with the crude parody he thought was funny."
_A real journalist is a rare and hard to find thing. They are the types of journalists who don't use cheap tricks (which in turn cheapen their point as I explained) to get across facts or even their side of an argument. The reason you don't see many like this is because, like respectable artists and real reviewers, respectable journalists are a dieing breed.
_As for the news thing, I would go into it but that's a whole other discussion.
Admittedly synonyms mean the same thing, but that train of thought can be used to link 'boring' to 'Interminable'.Okay, firstly cartoonish does mean it's not real, however the word is used when talking about something that is outrageously or comically unreal. Jim was making this point, which showed he didn't know what he was talking about because nothing that has "strong emotional context" can be "cartoonish". That cartoon cyote falling down a canyon? Cartoonish. Elmer Fud getting blown up and then seeing his spirit rising into the sky while riding a cloud and playing a harp? Cartoonish. Ethan Mars cutting off his finger? The death of [spoiler not said] in LA Noire? Any of the main characters' deaths (during the game's plot not gameplay) in Persona 4? Not cartoonish.Firstly: nowhere in the video does he state that death in videogames have never had emotional value(nor did I), it is however very obvious that it is not real (cartoonish), even when there is a strong emotional context, and people who play videogames for the most part know this.
_It's how the word is used, and Jim was being painfully ignorant in saying videogame deaths are cartoonish.
FreeDictionary.Com:Secondly: to note here is that he did not call it 'humdrum' he called it boring, and Dictionary.com does not result in humdrum as a definition but rather a synonym, and they are different (witch is not to say that my source is better than yours, but they are apparently different). What source did you use?
Boring: Uninteresting, tiresome; dull
Synonym: A word having the same or nearly the same meaning as another word or other words in a language.
Yeah those were synonyms I used, but they meant the same thing. Boring cannot, does not, and should not be allowed to inhabit the same room as "real murder/war". Jim, again, was being painfully ignorant.
(Sidenote: english is not my first language, and it struck me there is a chance that the value of common terms used in an uncommon fashion is easier for me, as I am not used to hearing them in daily speech and therefore have "big-picture-hearing" perhaps placing emphasis on the subject as a whole, and interpreting single words from within the context to a greater degree)
This... looks a bit like the writings of someone who dismisses me based on my linguistical prowess or lack thereof, a lacking that I myself took time to explain.That...makes a lot of sense.
I'm not being cruel when I say- Don't get into a debate on the words of a language that isn't your primary one.
without a reference, and then being done with it.For future reference: Cartoonish is used as a way of saying something is outragous to the point of being hilarious. Literally: A ridiculously oversimplified or stereotypical representation
Okay, this debate has spanned days now, far longer than it needs to.kroldok said:*snip*
Welp, I'm never going to watch another anything by Jim ever again. His videos on the Escapist were interesting to say the least, and they do have a point (this one does to, barely) but if a guy can get away with shit like that and still be paid as a "legitimate" journalist, I have no idea what could be considered "illegitimate".Ian Caronia said:...
Okay, this will likely be the last time I reply to this debate because I've repeated myself a dozen times over and have made my points crystal clear by now. If after AAALLL of this you think that this video:
..Is good journalism, is respectable, tactful, and well done in ANY way then there's no more to talk about. I've explained my side. You have yours. It was nice talking to you though and I am not being sarcastic. Seriously. Also not dismissing you. Have a good one.
Final Note: I believe Jim whatshisface is a HACK and an ignorant ass, and a poor excuse for a journalist. He deserves nothing less than scorn until he gets his act together, and since people keep giving him money despite the overwhelming majority HATING this guy, he won't.